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184 cm DYNASTAR MYTHIC RIDER LEGEND - Page 2

post #31 of 56

The Mythic Riders are my favorite skis, and I use them whenever conditions permit.

 

For me, really hard eastern snow is not a condition in which I'd choose them.

 

That said, they've been tons of fun for everything else, and particularly for crappy snow, which they turn into smooth as buttah. 

post #32 of 56

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2 ski View Post

 


Mudfoot, I don't think it was you, rather the conditions you tried them in. I never used mine in spring conditions, as I felt they were best suited to be my everyday ski for winter conditions.


Mudfoot, It was the spring conditions that didn't work for you. I was at Mammoth for a Spring Storm on May 2nd. Heavy dense snow. Pretty grabby stuff. The MRs were not the same ski in these conditions. I didn't have them with me, but my Movement Thunders would have been better in my opinion for this funky snow or even my Nitrous. Just wanted to give you a heads up dood.

post #33 of 56
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post

Well, they are good skis, but not remotely carvers in my opinion.  Their strength, to me, was that they could readily be pointed into tight spaces with a clean turn initiation and followed up with a smooth skid of the tail to finish the turn and provide speed control.  Just the kind of thing needed in tight spaces.  But they are not precise or energetic as carvers at all in my experience, nor did I expect them to be.


After my day on them and everyone's comments, I think the bottom line with these skis is that they really are somewhat unique.  As pointed out by davluri in Post #18, they have a dual construction and pintail sidecut that makes them unlike anything I have ever skied.  I initiate from the front and roll my weight back to the tails through the turn, which made me acutely aware of the abrupt change in charateristics, particularly in a hard carve.  Those who really like this ski probably ski with a more upright centered style, which in my mind is a more modern technique, and the MRs appear to have been made specifically for them.
 

 

Based on the number of fans I am sure the MRs are good skis, but for me the goal has always been to find skis that fit my style and allow me the maximum relaxation throughout the turn in all conditions and terrain.  The MRs just required too much concentration for me to make them work, and even then they didn't work all that well for me.  It's much easier for this old dog to find a ski that fits my style rather than trying to radically change my style to fit a ski's characteristics. Fortunately there are a lot of options, and this forum is a great tool for sorting them out.

post #34 of 56

From your desscription of the Ski and other posts you have put up.  i would say you are more likly a candidate for the Legend Pro in this style of ski.

 

I liked the 184 Mythic but I was evaluating them as something for less aggressive or high end womens ski.

 

In fact for me they were not enough ski.  They felt squirly and I overpowered them everywhere.  But that just me.

post #35 of 56

Wow, you must be one hell of an aggressive skier (but of course, on the internet, who knows, right?).  I would not call the Mythic a "gentle" ski, in fact I think it is even stiffer than LPR.  I just have a hard time seeing anyone but someone wiht a linebacker physique and strength overpowering a 184 Mythic, but that's just me.  I also don't find my 178 squirrely at all, if anything they are a bit planky feeling, especially after skiing some of the other skis in the range.    

post #36 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Wow, you must be one hell of an aggressive skier (but of course, on the internet, who knows, right?).  I would not call the Mythic a "gentle" ski, in fact I think it is even stiffer than LPR.  I just have a hard time seeing anyone but someone wiht a linebacker physique and strength overpowering a 184 Mythic, but that's just me.  I also don't find my 178 squirrely at all, if anything they are a bit planky feeling, especially after skiing some of the other skis in the range.    

 

Did I hurt your feelings?

 

Interesting reaction

post #37 of 56

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post

 


After my day on them and everyone's comments, I think the bottom line with these skis is that they really are somewhat unique.  As pointed out by davluri in Post #18, they have a dual construction and pintail sidecut that makes them unlike anything I have ever skied.  I initiate from the front and roll my weight back to the tails through the turn, which made me acutely aware of the abrupt change in charateristics, particularly in a hard carve.  Those who really like this ski probably ski with a more upright centered style, which in my mind is a more modern technique, and the MRs appear to have been made specifically for them.
 

 

Based on the number of fans I am sure the MRs are good skis, but for me the goal has always been to find skis that fit my style and allow me the maximum relaxation throughout the turn in all conditions and terrain.  The MRs just required too much concentration for me to make them work, and even then they didn't work all that well for me.  It's much easier for this old dog to find a ski that fits my style rather than trying to radically change my style to fit a ski's characteristics. Fortunately there are a lot of options, and this forum is a great tool for sorting them out.

 


Give the Sultan 85 a try -- it's really a better overall ski than the Mythic IMO.  I wouldn't be surprised to see the Mythic model phase out at some point -- it's becoming an odd duck in Dynastar's lineup.  I sold my Mythics, and put in a pre-order for some Sultans!

post #38 of 56

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT View Post

 

Did I hurt your feelings?

 

Interesting reaction

No, I was just genuinely puzzled, because your description didn't quite  square with my own experience with the Mythic.  But everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I am not disputing yours.  No hurt feelings either. 
post #39 of 56

Craig- What was better about the Sultan that put it over the Mythic?  I missed my chance on a demo this season, so I go only by hearsay.  85 over 88 is pretty much splitting hairs, so they fit in the same slot of a slightly skinny off-trail ski.   I actually expected Dynastar to put out something like a 90-92 ski to fill a hole between the 8000 and LPR, but I guess I am wrong... 

post #40 of 56

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Craig- What was better about the Sultan that put it over the Mythic? 


Overall, more of a racy/nimble feel and much stronger groomer performance, while still being good in soft snow conditions.  I think the Sultan covers a wider part of the envelope, whereas the Mythic is really focused in one area. 

post #41 of 56

I see... Hmm, from that description Sultan sounds like a beefed-up 8000, rather than Mythic, but if it manages to improve on the 8K, it should be one terrific ski.  I did notice that Sultan is made like LPR- full sidewall, no cap.  I am still bummed that Dynastar didn't make a Legend 94, basically a slightly more versatile LPR that didn't need to be skied fast all the time.  Maybe the current LPR is pretty much that ski, and the "charger" skis are now the XXL and BigDump (or whatever they are called)... 

 

Mythic does look increasingly odd in the current line-up.  When I got mine, Mythic was for people who wanted the crud capabilities of the LegendPro in a more versatile package.  It certainly did just that for me.

post #42 of 56

I think the Sultan is a departure from both the Mythic and the 8K.  It has a much more snappy, energetic, and precise feel than either of those two -- they kind of feel sloppy in comparison.  I am sure this is due to a tradeoff between performance and forgiveness, but I didn't feel the Sultan was very demanding at all.  I think in another thread someone compared the Sultan to the Head iM88, but the Sultan is definitely less demanding than the 88 with every bit the performance in my experience (and more character).  I'll definitely try to do a full review next season after I have a couple days on the Sultans.  They will be vying for the mid-80s spot in my quiver with the iM82 and iM88 (Mythic already having been eliminated from the race).

post #43 of 56

The Sultan has 2 layers or titanal (sp), can you compare the stiffness and flex pattern of the MR and Sultan? Torsionally, tip/tail?

post #44 of 56

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post

I think the Sultan is a departure from both the Mythic and the 8K.  It has a much more snappy, energetic, and precise feel than either of those two -- they kind of feel sloppy in comparison.  I am sure this is due to a tradeoff between performance and forgiveness, but I didn't feel the Sultan was very demanding at all.  I think in another thread someone compared the Sultan to the Head iM88, but the Sultan is definitely less demanding than the 88 with every bit the performance in my experience (and more character).  I'll definitely try to do a full review next season after I have a couple days on the Sultans.  They will be vying for the mid-80s spot in my quiver with the iM82 and iM88 (Mythic already having been eliminated from the race).


I'll be very interested to hear the im82 comparison with the Sultans.  I'm looking at the Stockli VXL, Peak 82 and Sultan 85 myself, although I expect the Stockli to be priced out of my budget.

post #45 of 56

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

The Sultan has 2 layers or titanal (sp), can you compare the stiffness and flex pattern of the MR and Sultan? Torsionally, tip/tail?



 

no comment on the flex of the sultan, but i've flexed a MR with ONE layer of metal (i know this ski's construction has been debated, ad-nauseum, but there IS one layer of metal UNDER the core...) back to back with a similarly sized elan 888 with THREE layers of metal. the MR was WAAAY stiffer. it's glass that makes a ski longitudinally stiff. metal adds torsional stiffness, but mostly is just there to make a ski damp. does this answer any of your questions? probably not. but by the way you posed your question, i wasn't sure what sort of answer you were expecting.

post #46 of 56

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post

I think the Sultan is a departure from both the Mythic and the 8K.  It has a much more snappy, energetic, and precise feel than either of those two -- they kind of feel sloppy in comparison.  I am sure this is due to a tradeoff between performance and forgiveness, but I didn't feel the Sultan was very demanding at all.

 

Do you know if the difference between the Sultan 85 and the Sultan 80 strictly about waist width and radius (the 80 having a tighter radius)? Or is there also maybe a softer flex-pattern aimed at a different target audience in terms of size / skill / aggressiveness? Some day I'm going to need to retire my 172cm Legend 5yo 4800s that I totally love, but have a lot of wear and now a damaged edge from a shuttle bus unloading incident. As a lightweight skier who really doesn't like to go below 170cm for a ski like this, I'm dreaming of a ski that has the same unique Legend forgiving-but-ready-for-anything feel and radius (16m), but a bit wider. I was hoping that maybe one of the Sultans was going to be it. (For reference, I tried the Watea 84 in a 176, which was fun but maybe a bit too planky for me in that length. I probably would have liked the 167 but did not have an opportunity to try that.)

post #47 of 56

qcanoe-   If you go for any of the Sultans you will most likely pay close to full retail at the start of the season- it is a new line of skis.   I just want to point out another option: pick up a pair of Legend 8000 that are available now at deep end-of-season discounts.  You pretty much know how that ski will ski (definitely more ski than your 4800) and if you don't, check multiple reviews of that ski on this board. 

post #48 of 56

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

qcanoe-   If you go for any of the Sultans you will most likely pay close to full retail at the start of the season- it is a new line of skis.   I just want to point out another option: pick up a pair of Legend 8000 that are available now at deep end-of-season discounts.  You pretty much know how that ski will ski (definitely more ski than your 4800) and if you don't, check multiple reviews of that ski on this board. 

 

Yeah, if I went for a Sultan it would be an end-of-the-season thing or next year. So no rush, just curious. As for the 8000, the unstated thrust of my question was that I'm not 100% sure that I want "more ski" than the 4800 at my weight, if that has to mean stiffer and longer radius. Unfortunately I have never had a chance to demo the 8000, and now it's unlikely to happen unless I talk some stranger into a swap. (None of my ski buddies has these.)

post #49 of 56

No experience with the 4800, but 8000 has a very deep low end (meaning you don;t have to be an expert to ski it).  At the same time it has enough oomph to satisfy an expert.   That's one of the reasons why it is (was) so popular. 

post #50 of 56

I have a pair of 4800 and MRs and have skied the 8000 several times.  While I will say the MR is more difficult to ski that the 4800, especially at slower speeds, I didn't fine the 8000 any more difficult to ski.  It defiantly is "more ski" in that it is better at higher speeds and in rough snow.  Basically, I would say it has a larger performance envelope than the 4800, and that the lower end of it's envelope overlaps the 4800.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

 

 

Yeah, if I went for a Sultan it would be an end-of-the-season thing or next year. So no rush, just curious. As for the 8000, the unstated thrust of my question was that I'm not 100% sure that I want "more ski" than the 4800 at my weight, if that has to mean stiffer and longer radius. Unfortunately I have never had a chance to demo the 8000, and now it's unlikely to happen unless I talk some stranger into a swap. (None of my ski buddies has these.)

 

post #51 of 56

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

No experience with the 4800, but 8000 has a very deep low end (meaning you don;t have to be an expert to ski it).  At the same time it has enough oomph to satisfy an expert.   That's one of the reasons why it is (was) so popular. 


Thanks. That is helpful, and consistent with lots of posts on that ski. Just so you understand why I don't automatically take it at face value without a demo, my experience - at the risk of repeating myself for the umpteenth time on this board on this subject - is that the kind of 170cm ski wanted by a 130lb expert is often very different from the kind of 170cm ski wanted by a 180lb expert. I have sometimes - not always - found that a ski aimed at a slightly lower ability level is nonetheless appropriate for me, just on the basis of weight. My affection for the 4800 is a perfect case in point.

post #52 of 56
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

 


Thanks. That is helpful, and consistent with lots of posts on that ski. Just so you understand why I don't automatically take it at face value without a demo, my experience - at the risk of repeating myself for the umpteenth time on this board on this subject - is that the kind of 170cm ski wanted by a 130lb expert is often very different from the kind of 170cm ski wanted by a 180lb expert. I have sometimes - not always - found that a ski aimed at a slightly lower ability level is nonetheless appropriate for me, just on the basis of weight. My affection for the 4800 is a perfect case in point.

Qcanoe, I think you raise a very good point.  Too many people buy a particular ski because it works great in a different length for someone else.  Because the same construction in different lengths creates different charateristics, and different weight skiers effect the ski differently, you cannot necessarily depend on someone's review of a ski in a length you will not be buying.  IMO many people buy a particular "hot" model ski that ends up being a bad choice for them because in a shorter or longer length they get a much different ski personality.  Demoing is still the only safe bet, provided you can get the ski your want in the length you want.
 

post #53 of 56

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

The Sultan has 2 layers or titanal (sp), can you compare the stiffness and flex pattern of the MR and Sultan? Torsionally, tip/tail?


To me, the Sultan's overall feel was more along the line of a Head Monster without all the molasses -- in other words very continuous, even flex (compared to the Mythic which is soft tip and tail and stiff in the middle).  I can't say I really got a quantitative feel for the torsional stiffness, but the Sultan totally ripped it up at high speeds on hard snow, so it has to be fairly stiff torsionally.  Really felt like a wide race ski to me, like a more energetic / less demanding Monster 88.

post #54 of 56

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

 

 

Do you know if the difference between the Sultan 85 and the Sultan 80 strictly about waist width and radius (the 80 having a tighter radius)? Or is there also maybe a softer flex-pattern aimed at a different target audience in terms of size / skill / aggressiveness? 


I have not seen a Sultan 80 in person, but I believe it has cap construction in the tip, so perhaps they were trying to give it easier turn initiation than the 85 (which is full sidewall). 

 

post #55 of 56

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

qcanoe-   If you go for any of the Sultans you will most likely pay close to full retail at the start of the season- it is a new line of skis.   I just want to point out another option: pick up a pair of Legend 8000 that are available now at deep end-of-season discounts.  You pretty much know how that ski will ski (definitely more ski than your 4800) and if you don't, check multiple reviews of that ski on this board. 


I got the Sultan 85 for $529 as a pre-order, which is a pretty good price.  Probably $40-50 less for the Sultan 80 as a pre-order.  Still more than you can get end of season 8K/Fluids for though.

post #56 of 56

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post

 

Qcanoe, I think you raise a very good point.  Too many people buy a particular ski because it works great in a different length for someone else.  Because the same construction in different lengths creates different charateristics, and different weight skiers effect the ski differently, you cannot necessarily depend on someone's review of a ski in a length you will not be buying.  IMO many people buy a particular "hot" model ski that ends up being a bad choice for them because in a shorter or longer length they get a much different ski personality.  Demoing is still the only safe bet, provided you can get the ski your want in the length you want.
 


Very good take. Myself, I always look for reviews where the skier is close to my height and weight. Some guy at 6" 150lbs is going to have a totally different take than me at 5'10" 190lbs. Also, I know from experience, no matter how much the guy loves the 191, that is likely to much ski for this jong to handle, unless it has a 25M or less turn radius.

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