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Did I go to Wide?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

I just bought a new pair of skis.  I previously was skiing the Volkl AX3 which was 70mm underfoot Recently I just bought the Salomon Czar that is 112mm underfoot with rockered tips etc.

 

So far the ski is cool, it does float a lot better of course, but I find myself way more tired at the end of the day. My legs get more sore and even my mid back muscles hurt. I skiied on them 2 days, both were soft snow days, and I was skiing steep and deep.  Am I maybe just skiing in the backseat and not aware of it?

 

The skis are pretty sweet but I do kind of miss the quicker edge to edge quicker turning feeling. 

 

I'm 6'4 190lbs, ski mostly the Western united states, lived in Tahoe for a year, I have been in the PAC NW for the past 2 seasons. I  can ski pretty much anything except I do not drop off rocks or ski in the park.  I spend about 65% off trail.  But I do like to often find steep groomers and fly down the mountain at high speeds a lot of the time and just have fun.

 

Do you think I should have went with something with like a 95mm underfoot, perhaps a mantra?  Or do you think I just need to refine my technique and then my new skis will dominate...

 

Also... now that I have new gear should I just use the Volkl's in extreme early/late season conditions... or should i still use them when it's not a true powder day.   (with the size difference)

 

Oh and the title should of read "too" instead of to  haha

post #2 of 16

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine_wonder View Post

 

I just bought a new pair of skis.  I previously was skiing the Volkl AX3 which was 70mm underfoot Recently I just bought the Salomon Czar that is 112mm underfoot with rockered tips etc.

 

So far the ski is cool, it does float a lot better of course, but I find myself way more tired at the end of the day. My legs get more sore and even my mid back muscles hurt. I skiied on them 2 days, both were soft snow days, and I was skiing steep and deep.  Am I maybe just skiing in the backseat and not aware of it?

 

The skis are pretty sweet but I do kind of miss the quicker edge to edge quicker turning feeling. 

 

I'm 6'4 190lbs, ski mostly the Western united states, lived in Tahoe for a year, I have been in the PAC NW for the past 2 seasons. I  can ski pretty much anything except I do not drop off rocks or ski in the park.  I spend about 65% off trail.  But I do like to often find steep groomers and fly down the mountain at high speeds a lot of the time and just have fun.

 

Do you think I should have went with something with like a 95mm underfoot, perhaps a mantra?  Or do you think I just need to refine my technique and then my new skis will dominate...

 

Also... now that I have new gear should I just use the Volkl's in extreme early/late season conditions... or should i still use them when it's not a true powder day.   (with the size difference)

 

Oh and the title should of read "too" instead of to  haha

 

2 things come to my mind.....

 

If you didnt get the 182cm in that ski you went to short.

 

and maybe your skiing harder and with more energy on the newer skis. As long as your not getting joint pain you should be fine. sore muscle are jsut that sore muscles.

post #3 of 16

The Czar makes a really good deep snow ski for someone that is not already a deep snow expert. It is however, not much good as an everyday ski. As a two ski quiver, the Czar and something else would cover it just fine. Your narrow Volkls are not the perfect other ski, but neither is a Mantra. IMO pick a mid 80's/low 90's something or other and you'll be set. There are so many good skis in that width range that you can get anything you want. All mountain twins, all mountain directionals, wide carvers, whatever character you want is out there.

 

I suspect that you are more tired from spending more time in the chop than you would have on your old skis. Also FWIW; those rockered tips and other types of concept skis do feel like more work to me than a good midfat once the deep snow gets hacked all to pieces. Until then, the Czar or other similar skis are much easier.

 

SJ

post #4 of 16

I think that it sounds like for the kind of skiing that you do, the Czar is a perfect "dump" day ski for you.  But as far as an everyday ski or even a day where it is chopped up?  I would defenetely get something more versatile, I actually would prefer something like the Mantra, to have as an everday ski, but in the longest length, a 191cm i believe.  Look at similar skis in that category, maybe the Seth's or Kung Fujas as they are called this year, maybe the Noridca Enforcers, or the Head Mojo 94.  The 70mm Volkls are still good for charging bumps and spring skiing, but those Czar's, are they super soft or what?

post #5 of 16

alpine_wonder: Probably not!  Why - a couple of thoughts to add to the above:

  1. For some strange reason I find the "break-in time" of a wider ski (i.e., that needed to get used to the ski both mentally and instinctually) to be longer than that for a narrower one (for me it takes up to a season, while narrower ones can be instantaneous).
  2. Nevertheless, in pure deep snow those Czar's should have been a low-effort revelation.  Again, I'd give it some time, rethink how you ski the deep (i.e., getting these to turn quickly ain't the same as that for the AX3's) and seek out a low-energy technique (this should become readily apparent on the Czars if you stick with the deep).
  3. OTOH - Based on SJ's review of this ski, if you are heavy, ski fast, and/or ski heavy snow perhaps you bought the wrong wide ski (i.e., perhaps you needed a crud-busting machine rather than a floater).
  4. You sure you didn't spend any time on groomers at high speeds?  If so, see SJ's comments.
     
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

 

The Czar makes a really good deep snow ski for someone that is not already a deep snow expert.

SJ - You're hurting my feelings!  Just when you've convinced me that the Czar might be perfect for a lightweight expert that prefers a nimbler ski...you post the above.  Shouldn't it say something like "...or someone that prizes float and nimbleness over high-speed crud busting, and is willing to put up with some extra work when the snow gets chopped/packed"?  Ok...whatever...I'll take some Advil and get on with my sorry life....

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skiut420

 

...those Czar's, are they super soft or what?

Not compared with the obSethed's they ain't....

post #6 of 16
Quote:

SJ - You're hurting my feelings!  Just when you've convinced me that the Czar might be perfect for a lightweight expert that prefers a nimbler ski...you post the above.  Shouldn't it say something like "...or someone that prizes float and nimbleness over high-speed crud busting, and is willing to put up with some extra work when the snow gets chopped/packed"?  Ok...whatever...I'll take some Advil and get on with my sorry life....

OK................soundz good to me..............

 

SJ

post #7 of 16

OP: Couple of other causes of soreness using wider skis:

 

1) If you spent a lot of time trying to carve groomed, the extra torque on your legs/knees when you get them over on edge.  

 

2) Easier to get into the backseat on wide forgiving skis, since more surface area to support, less tail to send you into another dimension, crud will slow you down anyway. So quads take the load. Make sure you're skiing more like you would any other narrower ski. 

 

Strongly suggest you take SJ's advice and go find a carver for the frontside or dig your Volkls out of the bin. 112 for your only ski is silly unless you avoid groomed on principle. 

post #8 of 16

yeah, what is wrong with the AX3?  A pretty decent all-around ski if I recall, should have good edgehold be versatile enough when it isn't snowing.  I skied Squaw last spring with a Progressor 9+, 70mm waist (it hadn't snowed in a couple of weeks) and aside from being a touch stiff for bumps, coudln't have asked for a better ski.  That ski absolutely killed it on hard snow and was forgiving enough for chakly shady snow and soft sun corn in the afternoon. 

post #9 of 16

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post

 

yeah, what is wrong with the AX3?  .........

 

Actually nothing except that it would not be a great first ski for Western snow when partnered with a Czar as the second. About the only thing that might make less sense would be to use the Czar as the #1 and the AX3 as the #2.

 

SJ

post #10 of 16

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

 

 

 

Actually nothing except that it would not be a great first ski for Western snow when partnered with a Czar as the second. About the only thing that might make less sense would be to use the Czar as the #1 and the AX3 as the #2.

 

SJ

 

I must be missing something here: he is looking for a primarily frontside ski as he has the wide Czar for new snow use, the AX3 is 70mm underfoot, and he already owns it.  Besides being a bit dated, why won't it work?

 

http://www.buzzillions.com/dz_105825_volkl_724_ax3_skis_bindings_used_2004_reviews

post #11 of 16


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post

 

 

 

I must be missing something here: he is looking for a primarily frontside ski as he has the wide Czar for new snow use, the AX3 is 70mm underfoot, and he already owns it.  Besides being a bit dated, why won't it work?


 

My $0.02.  I own the M666's, W84's and Gotama's.  If the M666's were a better soft snow ski I'd be OK, but they are, for me, a purely hard snow ski (even in minimal crud/fresh they do not want to turn w/o putting up a fight).  I don't know how similar the AX3 is to the M666's, but w/o my W84's there'd be alot of days where neither the M666's nor the Gotama's are a good choice (I can't imagine what it would be like if I had the Czar's instead of the Gotama's).  Given this, and the lack of truly hard snow days in CO, my M666's are essentially useless (except as "rock skis").

post #12 of 16

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ski-ra View Post

 


 


 

My $0.02.  I own the M666's, W84's and Gotama's.  If the M666's were a better soft snow ski I'd be OK, but they are, for me, a purely hard snow ski (even in minimal crud/fresh they do not want to turn w/o putting up a fight).  I don't know how similar the AX3 is to the M666's, but w/o my W84's there'd be alot of days where neither the M666's nor the Gotama's are a good choice (I can't imagine what it would be like if I had the Czar's instead of the Gotama's).  Given this, and the lack of truly hard snow days in CO, my M666's are essentially useless (except as "rock skis").

 

I guess my experiences have been different.  I liked the iM78 last year for a "not too much new snow" ski, and would ski the 4x4 in the same capacity now.  I also skied the 666/Mag12 for a year, it was my only ski at the time and did fine the majority of the days, unless we were seeing more than 10" or so.  I thought it was the ultimate GS-like ski for softer, but not truly deep, snow. 

 

A fine example why so many skis are on the market: my "right" skis may be your "wrong" skis, if not the other way around

post #13 of 16

Still interested in why you think this is a bad match to the Czar, SJ. I skied one many moons ago, pretty narrow waist that at the time qualified for a 70/30 ski, today would be a pure frontside, but good grip, was made before Volkl lost interest in carvers that actually bend and have feel, and best of all if he still has it, it's FREE! 

post #14 of 16

To have a great quiver of skis I think you need to have at least 3 pairs of skis (if your an all mountain skier). I think you now have a good floater ski and you have a groomer ski now you just need a crud ski. I own last year's Volkl Bridge skis and they are awesome! They power through crud, have a great stiffness, and they still have some float (92mm waist). They are an amazing ski and I would strongly recomend them for a crud ski.

 

post #15 of 16


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

 

 

 

2 things come to my mind.....

 

If you didnt get the 182cm in that ski you went to short.

 

and maybe your skiing harder and with more energy on the newer skis. As long as your not getting joint pain you should be fine. sore muscle are jsut that sore muscles.


 

I like Bushwacker's option #2: the OP is excited about his new skis and consequently is skiing harder on them than he skied in the past.  The OP needs to ski in better balance and get in better shape.

post #16 of 16

My 2 cents Ax3 is a great ski especially for bumps. Wish I never sold mine. You probably need a mid 80's crud type ski or low 90's like a Big Trouble

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