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In response to OklahomaSkiBum and Bob Barnes - Page 3

post #61 of 68
OMG! I apologize profusely. It should have been more obvious to me that asking the questions I asked would lead into the confusing quagmire technique questions often create.

OKSkiBum. I think Pierre's post is a good one, if a little intimidating at the spectre of individual agendas. My exam experiences have been good in the sense that a simple fundamental understanding of skiing skills coupled with clear presentation avoid running afoul of differing opinions. The answers to the questions I asked suggest your professional knowledge is fundamentally sound. I think the 'perceived disgreements' in this thread are semantic in nature.

If I could back up and take another route in suggesting professional knowledge can be displayed through teaching and avoid technical discussions altogether, I would. But history is history.

[quote]My first thought was that you jumped right into an outline of your lesson plan a little too quickly, without giving us reasons for the exercises and activities you chose. In an exam, I'm sure I'd have asked "Why?" a lot of times! If we do this again (and in the exam!) you can save yourself a lot of explaining by finishing most sentences with "because..." As long as you have sound reasons for your decisions, based on the student's personal goals and motivations as well as his/her skiing and understanding, you can't go far wrong! Then it's a question of clear explanations, concise feedback, and fun, student-centered presentation.

I would have done a better job if I had keyed a response more like that.
post #62 of 68
In addition, the questions which followed this quote:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roto:
As examiners are wont to do when they have questions about a teaching segment, I am going to ask some questions.

My experience as an examiner was short-lived as I moved out of full-time skiing(for a short time) after going through the training program and gave up that position as a result. I have not utilized those skills in several years and they are rusty at best. My input into this thread should not be seen as representative of examiners.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ October 26, 2001 10:11 AM: Message edited 1 time, by Roto ]</font>
post #63 of 68
ESki commented that sigificant extension off either ski/leg in transition can be pushing the CM away from the falline. I would like to add that any extension of the uphill leg (old, non-dominant/free foot or soon to be dominant/stance foot) is often time accompanied (preceeded) by a tendency to shift weight over that ski (a movement of the CM uphill away from the fall line). Another reason to avoid talking about or teaching such extension. I think Pierre was also probably including this consideration when he said that relaxation of the downhill leg was "the way to go."
post #64 of 68
Si...I believe your logic is accurate. If you acutally recenter your balance/cm over the uphill foot/ski and actively extend this leg to trigger the transtion then I really believe the CM can break from it's smooth flow into the next turn.

It must be that there is another "move" (to accompany the extension) to get the CM to flow smoothly into the next turn in this way as described above. It could be leanning or directing or throwing the upper body into the next turn? Maybe more correctly, it would be something else?

Any ideas on this?
post #65 of 68
Eski, I think that we could talk about those other moves for a while (especially on this forum). However, I think that might be counterproductive in one respect. The relaxation/retraction ("lift and tip") of the downhill ski provides a single cue that begins a chain of movement which includes the shifting of weight and movement of the CM towards the fall line (which you have described quite nicely). If we then create an external cue for this single activity I think we have an excellent approach for teaching. (From both reading some literature on motor learning and personal experience in skiing and other sports I am a firm believer in an approach which utilizes an "external cue" and promotes "implicit learning"). That is not to deny that being able to initiate through extension of the uphill leg is not a worthwhile element of the quiver for an accomplished skier, only that trying to add additional components to it to be sure it accomplishes what relaxation/contraction does may not be a worthwhile approach for efficient teaching.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ October 26, 2001 07:24 PM: Message edited 2 times, by Si ]</font>
post #66 of 68
Thread Starter 
This year I took a great lesson from Lyle Stewart at the Canyons UT and I think the thing that stuck with me most about the "step onto the uphill ski" movement was to "lead with the downhill thigh" in combination with tipping(releasing) and pressing the little toe on the "new inside" leg. This "opened the door" with the leg moving away, and since it was the thigh moving down the hill the hips had to follow. and then to extend early through the upper part of the turn.
Then Richard at Sugarbowl had me change one other thing that made the whole thing a little more smooth and that was to be consider keeping my hips more square to the skis and moving them perpendicular across the skis. This started the carving even earlier in the turn and no more banana shaped turns. The only problem was I ran out of season to make these movements more habit so I suspect I'll be working on that a lot this year. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Does that make sense?
post #67 of 68
Si and Dchan...you guys are getting right to the same point about the transition move; nice one! [img]smile.gif[/img]

The point being that using the relaxation/retraction movement to trigger the relase of the turn is a beautiful thing. It inherently transfers your weight to the uphill/new carving edge and at the same time draws the upperbody/CM downhill and directly into the turn. Especially when you imediately roll that foot (in rhythm with line) into the new turn as you flatten the ski to the snow surface. Getting the CM into the new turn, as I understood it from reading above, is what folks were talking about earlier...the sesation of the "crossover" or "crossunder".

Also, by leading the edge change with that same foot/leg coming in light setting the edge angle for the new outside ski, you are making a continous and efficient movement directly connected to the the release of the last turn. There is absolutely break up of flow by any extraneous movements that are intended to sort of proactively shove the CM into the turn. This movement of the CM into the turn can be accomplished by giving into the inherent forces (G's) created by the turn (and your resisting it)by relaxing/retracting to release the turn. So it is way less effort with a very positive result. A very direct and flowing link between turns.

Dchan...about the positioning and movement of your hips. Maybe try putting your focus right at the ski level. After you release the turn by unweighting the downhill ski of one turn, focus on just trying to get that same ski lightly onto it's new turning edge (little toe edge of the new inside ski). Unless you're a bow-legged contortionist, when that ski is lightly on its edge, your CM has already moved into the turn and you should be well balanced and centered squarely over your outside ski which is already shaping the top of your turn.

Hope I am making sense. It IS getting a bit late, especially after a couple glasses of the vino tinto with dinner.
post #68 of 68
Just a quick thought as I have not had time to catch up! In skimming I see alot of talk about NO extension. Need to be careful of this thinking. Modern skiing still requires extension or as I like to say bending and lengthing of the legs. Also we still need some UP & Down in skiing.

Dchan- mentioned hips square to skis. True but also be careful think more of hips point to apex of next turn keeping in mind that is never a set point. Although with modern skis we twist less and incline more and have for about 10 years now, we can take this to far. Need to look at Ski performance.
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