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Note/rant - Page 4

post #91 of 207
Matteo, I did find that in Italy, women looked like women on the slopes. And we are not necessarily talking stretch pants, Bogner and one piece suits.
Its more of a issue of what they do NOT wear; baggy pants, khaki, or orange michelin man jackets. I do not agree that women will not go out if they don't have the right clothes. That's ridiculous. I also do not believe that stretch pants will save the ski industry.

But sometimes, when I look at a ski history book, and see pictures of skiers at Sun Valley Idaho, I feel sentimental about an era of elegance that passed me by.

Guess I was just born too late.
post #92 of 207
Originally posted by weems:
When I was a boy, Winter Park had discovered Reverse Shoulder, while Arapahoe Basin was still espousing the rotation of the Arlberg Technique. We had friends and coaches in both places, and we would usually ski WP on Saturday and ABasin on Sunday. My instructor at AB would be appalled when I would arrive Sunday morning with my hot wedel, and the coaches at WP would be devastated that I had reverted back to Arlberg sweepers by the next Saturday.

It was really funny, because it wasn't just a disagreement. Each felt that there was something inherently evil about the other's technique.

I think that this has been the source of my years of neurosis! And now it's Harb and PSIA, narrow and wide, racing and slopestyle. I can't stand it anymore. I must call my therapist immediately.
Ha ha... Now that's funny - probably because it's so true. Things never change.


I have a plan for enlightening America - it's called "GET SMART". I'd call you up and talk to ya about it if only I could find my shoe-phone.
post #93 of 207
Aww cheaps - you've got your foot in it again...
post #94 of 207
Originally posted by SnoKarver:
there's a few management types that lurk here from time to time.
I guarantee you that there are more than a few.
post #95 of 207
You are such a tease weems!
post #96 of 207
Lisa, from the picture I saw, your clothing is nice, not baggy at all, methinks.
When my mother gets frustrated with me, she says that I was born a century too late (referring to the 20th!).
post #97 of 207
I am enjoying the contrast between comments about slopeside fashions for women and a call to arms to create change in the industry. This certainly covers the ridiculous to the sublime!
post #98 of 207
The clothes are just a symptom, and by no means, the problem. But lets take it from a women's perspective. Just because title 9 promoted athleticism for girls, it did not automatically turn them into tomboys!

Some women will never be "boyish", no matter how hard they try. Perhaps its hormonal. Who knows? Who cares? But some women just do not like to move or dress in ways that feel "masculine" to them.

As I've mentioned many times before, skiing is being marketed for all its "yang" aspects, with very little focus on its "yin" elements. Are we losing people, by appealing to the daredevils, and not focusing on skiers esthetic values? So many times during the World Cup and the olympics, I heard commentators talking about someones style as "ugly skiing". Not very inspiring!
post #99 of 207

Next year OLN will be showing Powder-8 synchro competitions. You will find this a pleasant change from gladiators.

One of my all-time favorite athletes was Fred Astaire. Androgeny anyone?

I think skilled performance is androgenous. The Good knows no gender. And the Good looks very similar regardless of gender.
post #100 of 207
Nolo--from fashion to radical change, from the ridiculous to the sublime--which is which?

or . . .

Fat, not phat.
Two demographic facts that put the brakes on skiing growth--
As long as populations in this country trend toward the sunbelt, snowsports are going to be limited to that sliver of the population that can afford to fly (or drive 6+ hours) someplace to participate. The only middle school ski clubs in Florida that have regular weekend activities are waterskiing.
As long as obesity continues its drive to become the country's leading public health problem, active sports (like skiing) are going to be confined to a progressively more slender faction of the population. Something like 25% of the population is morbidly obese and doesn't belong on skis (for fashion reasons as well as health reasons--and there may be a reason for the popularity of baggy clothes). Another 30% is medically overweight, and puts itself at enhanced risk when chosing an exercise program that requires some skill to avoid injury. That 55% of the population needs to start working out, but they are months if not years from making the transition from couch potatoes for the Cable TV industry to cash cows for the ski resorts.
post #101 of 207
Nolo, could not agree more about Fred Astaire. I thought of him when I read Ron LeMaster say "The Snow turns the Skier".

But once again I need to ask, "is this what is being marketed?"
I don't think so! After the olympics, many of my female students, who are in no way Tammy Wynette types, wanted to take up figure skating.

When I asked, why not try skiing, their reply was that they wanted something that would appeal to both their athletic and esthetic sense.

So the bigger issue is, "how can we market skiing so that it has a broader appeal?"

Sno'more, you would make an excellent spokesman for the fitness industry. Even in people who are not overweight, the alarming # of imjuries that occur in people whose ONLY form of physical activity is skiing, is astonishing! Not sure of what the solution is!
post #102 of 207
I thought we agreed that snow sports marketing is lame, halfhearted, and lacking in mass appeal. Powder-8s come close to figure skating. Maybe OLN's coverage will change the image of our sport with the fitness segment.
post #103 of 207
I think nolobolono is on the right track. Figure 8's alone would not be the answer, of course - but the point is that it's the KIND of activity, the SORT of activity that can attract attention and skiers. I'm sure that others exist and still others can be invented - but the blend of aesthetics with athleticism seems right.

Also, this is the perfect place for celeb competitions - not PRO/celeb, just celebrities competing on snow.

As to fitness of Americans, sometimes people are more inclined to do the work necessary to become fit when the fitness, um, fits an activity they've learned to crave.
post #104 of 207
As to fitness of Americans, sometimes people are more inclined to do the work necessary to become fit when the fitness, um, fits an activity they've learned to crave.

That's been my personal experience, Oboe. Exercise for its own sake has never excited me much.
post #105 of 207
This is true, and many of us in the fitness industry are capitalizing on this. A MAJOR, MAJOR focus in our industry is to encourage sport particpation. Why? Because the "vanity" rewards of a fitness program are elusive, to say the least. Unless you've chosen your parents very wisely, and ended up with "designer genes" you're probably not going to end up with a "perfect body", whatever the heck that means!

Sports goals are tangible. "I rode the chairlift for the first time, skied my first blue, black, double black". So by encouraging sport, we give a students one more reason to stay fit.

In doing so, hopefully we add to the # of better looking skiers on the mountain, therebye adding to the "esthetic" element of the sport! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Tongue firmly in cheek! Sorry, just could'nt resist!
post #106 of 207
It's a great alliance, Lisa.

I hear you about the beauty of the sport being that it offers immensely gratifying experiences at all levels. Widen the scope and we widen the market.
post #107 of 207
Originally posted by sno'more:
That 55% of the population needs to start working out, but they are months if not years from making the transition from couch potatoes for the Cable TV industry to cash cows for the ski resorts.
Sadly, that 55% is now up to 61% according to the The U.S. Surgeon General!!!!

Hmmmmmm, I wonder if the participation stats are down in ALL recreational sports???? (As a % of the population).

Hours worked per week are up, stress is way up, commuting time is up, vacation time is down. People are getting squeezed too tight. Plus, we have a machine for everything from the garage door to the tv. No one needs to lift a stressed out finger to do anything.

Back to the *clothes*. I am just glad I am not a snowboarder. Can they get any more hideous? Why not just wear a khaki nylon potato sack? I think this year we actually had some nice ski jacket choices. We had waist defining belts, fur trim, scalloped hems, nice colors, AND adaquate thermal insulation. Finally! Okay, I'll stop with the fashion commentary now.
post #108 of 207
"Why not just wear a khaki nylon potato sack?" Hilarious!

But I think that as the world has become an uglier place to live in, it is reflected in everything, art, architecture, clothing style, music, fitness trends {kickbox aerobics} and even sport.

Did anyone ever see the futuristic film Rollerball? Perhaps snowboarding is the Rollerball of the 21st century, a kind of on the hill tackle football, where your goal is to knock over and either hurt or kill as many skiers as possible!

In terms of the visual esthetics, if an observer would view any group of people coming down a ski slope today, as opposed to any photo in one of Alf Engen's books, what they would probably see is disharmony. The snowboard style, tempo, use of the hill, just does not blend well with the skiers style. This lack of flow, may be just another reason for the lack of elegance seen nowadays.

In terms of the low # of people participating in fitness programs, I have to wonder if the fitness industry itself is at fault, for making promises it cannot keep. Like I said before, participating in a fitness program will help you look and feel better, but very few are going to turn into Pamela Anderson or Arnold.

Is the ski industry also guilty of making false promises?
post #109 of 207
very few are going to turn into Pamela Anderson or Arnold.
All it takes is a good surgeon and some fancy chemicals. Money helps too!
Why exercise when somebody else can do the work for you?
post #110 of 207
BillA, check in the humor thread, under, do all men think like this?
Pamela Anderson is definitely NOT my type.
post #111 of 207
Bless you, Matteo! I knew there was something I always liked about you!

Seriously speaking, there is a whole controversy going on nowadays in the fitness industry. Many "fitness professionals" are having all sorts of plastic surgery done. Not just body, face too!

Its a "truth in advertisng" issue.
post #112 of 207
Right on Lisa.
I'd rather..
Well, you've read my mind as an open book.
I think I'll post something in the other thread.
post #113 of 207
I was about to put this link in a thread posted by Snowcarver, but it seems to have disapeared!

post #114 of 207
I thought ski dancing (ballet) had disappeared, after not making to the olympic as a sport... :
post #115 of 207
LisaMarie, I moved it to the General Discussion thread...

[ April 27, 2002, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: SnoKarver ]
post #116 of 207
Originally posted by weems:
Ant, you met Trygve Berge. He's a wonderful guy, and he did help start Breckenridge. He's one of those great people in this business who is never seen not smiling.[/QB][/quote]

ah, I spelt it right! Yes, he was a real gentleman. We had a great chat, first we tore the 6 pack to bits that keeps breaking down (which is why we were in teh gondola), then agreed that people who set off avalanches are not a good thing, and then he told me all about building Breckenridge. He was headed to a meeting and me to line up, so I got to see him ski. Lovely old style skiier. He was surprised to learn that Norwegians and Austrians got the Aussie ski scene going.
post #117 of 207
Figured I'd stick in my .02 here: Just to represent the other side of the fashion debate - I think one of the reasons snowboarding gained popularity so fast amongst teenagers & others is that it was marketed as "anyone [youthful] can do it": The fatter people as regular athletes who could also pick it up, and baggy clothes do hide a multitude, etc...

So overweight teens/kids were treated by their peers as more joining the revolution, not as objects of fun, and they looked like everybody else. Not claiming that you had to be in shape to do it actually helped the sport cause none of the people taking it up worried about it. They just did it. The less in shape you were/are, the longer you took to learn, was all.

So while I admire the idea of making skiing for "beautiful people" [LM's skating analogy] and making more people want to do it, seems to me like the other side can get worked too...
post #118 of 207
Here is my own rant on the topics that have surfaced in this thread.

Boy, this string has taken a lot of dips and turns since it started. To get back to the original "rant" ...
Ski Clothing like all other fashion has changed significantly over the past few years. I'm not a fan of the "new" style of clothing. Unfortunately, a lot of the change has been driven by the change in (so called) music the younger generation is listening to. Many of the current "ski fashions" resemble the clothing that is worn by "RAP" stars.
That is not the only problem with the clothing, especially ski clothing for women. I am a larger woman, I will be honest, I could use to lose a few (more) pounds, but there is nothing out there in a woman's size that even comes close to fitting me. A woman's XL in ski clothing is about the equivalent of a women's 10-12 in all other clothing. My niece who wears a woman's 10 needed to get an XL in both the ski pants and the coat. She tried on almost everything in the local ski shops, so I know this to be true. They just don't make ski clothing for woment larger than that. They definately do not make it for women with a fuller figure. In fact, it's very difficult to find any stylish fashions in sizes 14 or larger.
Which brings me to another point,
As long as obesity continues its drive to become the country's leading public health problem, active sports (like skiing) are going to be confined to a progressively more slender faction of the population. Something like 25% of the population is morbidly obese and doesn't belong on skis (for fashion reasons as well as health reasons--and there may be a reason for the popularity of baggy clothes).
I know many excellent skiers who are larger. Not all large people are "couch potatoes", some are very active. I fight with my weight constantly, and not because I am a couch potato. I ski, swim, ride bike, walk, hike and am generally a very active person. I have fought weight from a very young age. It's not what I eat or when I eat and it's not a lack of exercise. A few years back I was so desperate to lose weight that I limited myself to only one meal per day (usually a salad or yougurt and fruit). You guessed it, I gained weight. My body thought it was starving and stored everything it took in. This "behavior" also caused me to go on an ocassional binge. Now I am eating right, following the American Diabetes Association guidelines, since that runs in my family and I am eating about 5 times as much food as I was and loosing weight. I have had many people tell me how graceful I am on my skis and what a joy I am to watch, be it only at the little areas in Central MA, but they have said it.

As for the question on stance, there is a very good reason for the widening of the stance. It provides a more stable base. I personally, can ski both ways. I frequently use a wider stance on steeper terrain.

Skiing hasn't changed because people have become lazy. Like anything else, it goes through phases. It will increase in popularity again. Remember the bright Neon colors of the 80's, the GLM Short ski method of the late 60's and early 70's, and mono skis.

Ok, I've said enough!
post #119 of 207
Okay, here's my ski clothes rant. The clothes that these kids are wearing are the clothes that they want to wear. It has nothing to do with fat, it has nothing to do with grunge. Those are all external--critiques talkin'.

Ask these kids why they're wearing what they are wearing. There answer will invariably be because it looks cool. Twas not so long ago with the Edwardian suits, and the beads and the Carnaby Street. (My kids watching Austin Powers: Did you REALLY dress like that?????)

These clothes are their look, their expression, and guess what? They don't care about our judgement. But they wouldn't be caught dead in "our" look. I was riding up the lift with one of my kids--asking him why the style with the pants down around the butt was so cool. He laughed as he pointed out a 60 year old man in stretch pants. "It's a lot better than THAT! That guy's 60 years old and still trolling!"

I love their look. Because it's theirs.
post #120 of 207
Uhhhh, ... I didn't do much skiing since the 2nd half of the 80's (having children, MN didn't offer much of a challenge, time/$) until this year (moved to CO). I still wear my '76 racing stretch pants and the first couple of days my '75 Rossi ST Comps. Got some humorous comments about "their having retro night at Crested Butte" and "Wow, your like total '70's."

I got some newer boots (used, I'm still cheap) and some Volkl Carver Plus skis, mainly because they were less work, I'm not a teenager anymore and 12,000' wears me out. My first time out this year I would have to pull over after 100 yards or so and take a "breather." I have been on a conditioning program, lost 15 lbs. of "I enjoy food too much" fat and can ski the entire run now without stopping for a "breather."

I haven't followed "the industry" for a long time, but I do like Monarch because I can walk from the parking lot 30 to 40 feet to the chalet and take my kids there where we can have runs practically to ourselves. No long lift lines, it's pretty basic and functional. Beautiful scenery, good snow, I'm pretty much a "enjoy the basics" kind of guy. Oh, I can still ski with my feet together or further apart, depends upon the situation/terain/"mood." I did take a few small moguls with hard, fast feet, zipper-line (is that what they call it these days) style and heard a "holy cow" from the chair lift above me.

Anxious to see if I can keep my "eye on the prize" this summer/fall and be one lean/mean fun skiing machine this winter.
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