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What is a Record Cliff Drop?

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 

How do they ( who ever they are ) determine what is a record? 

 In the tread about the guy who made the so called World Record He was interviewed in the hospital recovering from his record cliff drop!  

 This seems to me to have been an accident he was lucky to survive.  

 If I happen to be a klutz and drop off a 500 foot cliff and  somehow survive do I then hold the record? 

 

 

post #2 of 25
Quote:

 If I happen to be a klutz and drop off a 500 foot cliff and  somehow survive do I then hold the record? 

 

 

Yes.

post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 

Thanks, I'll be posting pics from intensive care as soon as they take off the cast

post #4 of 25

I think in all the cases of world record cliff drops, since the 90s, the athlete has been able to stand up and ski away.  Jamie Pierre and Fred Syversen I believe both required to be dug out of the pit they had created, but they skied away from their bombholes.

post #5 of 25

I think it should only count if you ski/ride out of the landing.

 

I believe my sister dropped a cliff in about 4 minutes.  I can't recall his last name.

post #6 of 25

Jamie Pierre was knocked out when he landed.  He was dug out from his bomb-hole, he came too, skied away about 200 ft and sat down and waited for a ride down on a snowmobile.  I am of the opinion that to count a drop as a record or as succesful you need to land it, maintain control and ski away.

post #7 of 25
Thread Starter 

So who really holds the record? One that the skier successfully skied away from on his own.

post #8 of 25

As I noticed at Hunter last week, the distance you drop depends on the depth of the snow. Even on the east coast the height you're jumping from can vary by several feet (as it did) due to snowmelt. Out west, it has to be much greater.

 

All I'm saying, is the exact vertical distance is going to vary depending on the depth of the snow pack; this will provide fuel for endless entertaining arguments. All the hidden resentments and jealousies can come out in a dispute such as this. I may follow it just for the entertainment.

post #9 of 25

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topper View Post

 

So who really holds the record? One that the skier successfully skied away from on his own.

 

What qualifies as 'successfully skied away' ???

 

I've seen Julien Carr send a 180' cliff, lawn dart, land on his upper back, roll through and pop up onto his feet... does that count as 'skiing away' or does the full body plant prior to 'skiing away' disqualify him?

 


www.youtube.com/watch

 

 

You just can't land on your feet above a certain height... it will kill you. So if actually landing upright and skiing away is the 'standard' then I guess guys like Kevin Andrews or John Tremann (sp?) would 'hold' the record with numerous people with equal drops to their name.

post #10 of 25

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

 

 

 

What qualifies as 'successfully skied away' ???

 

I've seen Julien Carr send a 180' cliff, lawn dart, land on his upper back, roll through and pop up onto his feet... does that count as 'skiing away' or does the full body plant prior to 'skiing away' disqualify him?

 


www.youtube.com/watch

 

 

You just can't land on your feet above a certain height... it will kill you. So if actually landing upright and skiing away is the 'standard' then I guess guys like Kevin Andrews or John Tremann (sp?) would 'hold' the record with numerous people with equal drops to their name.

My dad used to talk about what it was like parachuting in the army in the early 50s.  The parachutes sucked so you couldn't think of attempting a stand up landing.  They were taught to land falling sideways and roll just like you say.  I'm thinking if you are falling so far that forward momentum has ceased so there is no way to land on your skis and stay on your skis it isn't "skiing" anymore.  You might as well count cliff diving in to water also.  If yo aren't still moving forward and can not immediately when touching down, plus you roll on your side when cratering. That isn't a skiing.  You can call it a record cliff drop, but only if no one else has done it over water, air bags, crushed boxes, etc.. either. 

 

post #11 of 25

quote"it isn't skiing" 
 

The focus on hucking by today' best skiers (and my own son) is bothering me.

 

It has completly taken over big mountain freeride comps., and the minds of today's youth. 

 

The casualty (aside from their backs) is technical skiing itself. These skiers spend less and less time on line and technique so that they can huck bigger for fame and fortune. I would like to see a separation between these two disciplines, so that great skiing  is also recognized and rewarded.
 

I believe that landing on one's side or back, a valid technique, is an element of hucking, whereas landing on your feet and skiing away is referred to as stomping.

Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

 

 

My dad used to talk about what it was like parachuting in the army in the early 50s.  The parachutes sucked so you couldn't think of attempting a stand up landing.  They were taught to land falling sideways and roll just like you say.  I'm thinking if you are falling so far that forward momentum has ceased so there is no way to land on your skis and stay on your skis it isn't "skiing" anymore.  You might as well count cliff diving in to water also.  If yo aren't still moving forward and can not immediately when touching down, plus you roll on your side when cratering. That isn't a skiing.  You can call it a record cliff drop, but only if no one else has done it over water, air bags, crushed boxes, etc.. either. 

 

(funny coincidence: I was born at Fort Bragg in the 40's. 82md Airborn)
 

post #12 of 25

I was watching the winner of one of those freestyle competitions talk about her worries and thinking leading up to the competition; she repeatedly referred to extending her legs then bending them to absorb the impact of landing on her feet as 'putting it down'.

 

I understood it differently then; after bending the knees, twisting the hips, spreading the legs, doing 360s, etc there was a moment to put her feet DOWN, stomp them, to make the right kind of contact with the snow.

 

I remember a guy hucking, landing on his feet, going forward and striking his chest on the snow, and dying on the spot a few years ago. Your skis slow down abruptly; your upper body continues at free fall speed.

I find it dangerous when I've only had a few feet of air under my skis, which is why I do it. I understand why those guys do it with a few hundred feet of air.

post #13 of 25

I've done a few 20-30 footers and skied away. It was fun. Now back to skiing. Why jump out of a perfectly good airplane?;-) 101 Airborne.

post #14 of 25


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post

 

 Why jump out of a perfectly good airplane?;-) 101 Airborne.


 

Because falling through the air is the fastest way to get where you want to go?

post #15 of 25

It would be valuable to know what the speed at impact is for a 70 -80 foot drop. How does it compare to say a motorcycle striking a buttress at 60mph?  A doc friend told me that a major impact can tear the heart from its arteries. It can happen to anyone.

 

Do you guys, sending it that big, really know all the  dangers involved, every single one, and then still chose to launch?

 

I'd like to see you take all that natural ability and crazy courage into your distant future, so I can still watch and enjoy your stuff.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phlogiston View Post

 ........

I remember a guy hucking, landing on his feet, going forward and striking his chest on the snow, and dying on the spot a few years ago. Your skis slow down abruptly; your upper body continues at free fall speed.

I find it dangerous when I've only had a few feet of air under my skis, which is why I do it. I understand why those guys do it with a few hundred feet of air.


 

post #16 of 25

After an 80 ft drop, the downward vertical component of velocity would be 71 ft/s (49 mph) greater than whatever the initial vertical velocity was.  The estimate neglects wind resistance which would slow the skier down a bit, maybe 5-8%.  So as a rough estimate, if they shot off the lip in a purely horizontal motion, the downward velocity would probably be about 45 mph upon landing.

 

How that translates into an impact on the body really depends on the angle of the slope they land on and how much cushioning there is in the snow.  The extreme would be a flat hard horizontal surface, which would transfer all of the impact to the skier.  If the surface was angled, it would scale down the impact by the cosine of the angle.  And if the surface had some give (like a cushion of snow) it would be even more reduction.  So I think a large portion of the impact could conceivably be absorbed by a good landing zone.

post #17 of 25

with enough snow at the bottom, you could probably survive a drop from any height without injury. snow is pretty soft. jamie pierre landed on his head and was fine. there was an RAF tailgunner, Nick Alkemade, who fell 18000 feet into snow during WWII and survived, but he did sprain his ankle, and wasn't wearing skis, so i guess you can't count that.

post #18 of 25

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by epl View Post

 

there was an RAF tailgunner, Nick Alkemade, who fell 18000 feet into snow during WWII and survived, but he did sprain his ankle, and wasn't wearing skis, so i guess you can't count that.

 

Dont you break your neck from falling that high?

post #19 of 25


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

 

It would be valuable to know what the speed at impact is for a 70 -80 foot drop. How does it compare to say a motorcycle striking a buttress at 60mph?  A doc friend told me that a major impact can tear the heart from its arteries. It can happen to anyone.

 

Do you guys, sending it that big, really know all the  dangers involved, every single one, and then still chose to launch?

 

I'd like to see you take all that natural ability and crazy courage into your distant future, so I can still watch and enjoy your stuff.
 


 

 

There was that death of a skier last season who fell without hitting anything. There was some arguing about his case; it seemed suspicious. I had to search the follow up news accounts in the local paper to find out that he'd suffered a rupture of one of his arteries.
 

post #20 of 25

it's not how far you fall or how fast you were going, it's how fast you stop. assuming you were falling at around 120 mph from that height, if the snow stops you over a distance of around 10 feet, the deceleration force would be around 42 g. that's pretty high, but back in the 50s air force experiments with a rocket sled demonstrated that humans can survive at least 45 g.

post #21 of 25

i agree with many here in thinking that a lot of these record drops really have nothing to do with skiing. i mean honestly, standing at the top of a cliff , jumping off and surviving? might as well have a record for who can stick their head into the mouth of the biggest lion..... while wearing SKIS! 

post #22 of 25


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post

 

   So I think a large portion of the impact could conceivably be absorbed by a good landing zone.


 

Correct

 

I have gone off 20 footers with a bad landing zone and felt the impact more than I have on cliffs 5x's that size. 

 

People hurl themselves off 10, 20, 30 footers with horrible landings and get rocked hard so they often assume that the really big stuff must hurt that much more.  But it doesn't have to.....if the landing zone is correct (i.e. steepness, snow conditions/depth) and the landing form is correct (i.e. don't take it to your feet).

 

And you can still ski away from an impact taken initially with your back.  Oftentimes you pop right back up onto your feet.

post #23 of 25


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post

 

  So I think a large portion of the impact could conceivably be absorbed by a good landing zone.


 

right. look at ski jumping, there's really not much of a difference in dropping a couple hundred feet off a cliff and dropping a couple hundred feet on a jumping hill, as long as the landing area is suitably steep. still, i'll leave the demonstration of that to others.

post #24 of 25

^^^  while not wrong, it's also not a 100% accurate assesment.  Ski jumping and hucking a cliff are really quite different.  When ski jumping the skier descends, pops of a lip and flys out and a little bit down onto a graded slope.  Difficult, dangerous, and really cool, yes!   Dropping a cliff:  maybe a lip, more down than out, and landing on who knows what. 

 

I'm not diminishing the ski jumper it's truly a different impact on the body.  I've dropped too many cliffs and only hit a few ski jumps and they are very different.  Aerodynamics, body position, and glide  ratio are the keys to a "good" jump.  A cliff is not so techinical.  Sure my body position counts a lot, the landing zone is key, my insanity is definitely key

post #25 of 25

aside from the glide ratio difference in the two forms of jump, a major distinction is that when calculating a cliff drop the skier is determining many factors:  aligning the launch with  terrain variables; measuring conditions in the landing zone; survival of a fast runout. yeah, way more variables has to be the unique thing about cliffs.

 

I have only watched this stuff, and that ^^^ is what I have observed.  I would recommend  any skier going to a resort where this stuff goes off on a big powder day. Total stoke. You won't believe it. Like in the film: "what the hell was THAT?!!!!!" only in real actual present reality it is 100X's more impressive and scary enough to give all the spectators butterflies. but sorry, no instant re-plays.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by epl View Post

 


 


 

right. look at ski jumping, there's really not much of a difference in dropping a couple hundred feet off a cliff and dropping a couple hundred feet on a jumping hill, as long as the landing area is suitably steep. still, i'll leave the demonstration of that to others.


 


Edited by davluri - 3/15/2009 at 06:01 pm
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