or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › An unbiased (sort of) review of Harald Harb's new book
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

An unbiased (sort of) review of Harald Harb's new book

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
First the good. I really like Harb's emphasis on external cues, such as " pull the ski back", or "swing the pole". Also, the first chapter, "balance" should be necessary reading for every skier. He explains later in the book why the "float" between turns is so important. The skier can use the split second while the skis are flat to regroup and make any necessary adjustments to ski position and balance. And all this time I thought it just felt good!
Now the bad. The writing is not very clear. I had to read many passages 3 or 4 times to figure out what he was talking about. Sometimes the pictures illustrating what he is saying are on a following or preceding page, requiring page turning to follw it. Speaking of pictures, most of the pictures that are not of Harb show obvious skiing flaws. I don't know why these pictures are in this book at all, as all the pictures of Harb show incredible skiing.
Then there is the method. I will have to give it a fair try, but it seems fairly limiting. This has certainly been discussed here before. He very strongly emphasises that there should be NO active leg rotation. He does say that tipping the inside ski produces some leg rotation and that is all you need. I happen to think that steering is good, but I will give it a try. Also, he wants the reader to press the boots together
HARD at all times. This seems like too much tension, but again, I will give it a shot. Looks like it works beautifully for Harb.
All in all , I was disappointed. Esecially being used to the writings found on this forum and Lito Tejada-Flores, who explains these things much better and allows for a wider range of skiing techniques, including steering and skidding.
post #2 of 33
Thread Starter 
Page 51. " The release from the little-toe edge of the uphill ski is a skill that all expert skiers must develop if they are to continue improving. Slowly reduce the edge angle of the uphill ski until it begins to slide downhill. The tip drops and the rest of the ski will follw. Hold the free foot and boot close to the stance ski. Press the inside ankle rivets of both boots together to hold tension throughout the turn. If the free foot drops or touches the snow before completion, you have lost balance, start over."
Page 65: "Cues for success. Touch the inside ankle rivets of the boots together, then tip the free foot."
There are quite a few others like this, including an exercise where you try to press the boots together while someone tries to separate them with a pole. At first I thought that it was for exercises only, but it is throughout the book. Like I said, the writing is not very clear, so I could be wrong.

<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by milesb (edited March 14, 2001).]</FONT>
post #3 of 33
Just $0.02 from intermediate student of skiing...

I've been working with first Harb's book during this (my first) season - and pressing free foot's boot slightly behind stance ski boot while tipping free foot ski on the "little toe" edge during control phase of the turn is one thing that goes throughout this book too.

I believe this is how steering of stance ski is achieved and measured in Harb's approach - resulting pressure on back of the stance boot provides necessary rotary input... It is maximum at turn intiation - and gets progressively smaller during turn as stance ski edge gets engaged and free foot lowers to the snow...

One thing I noticed it is hard on Look/Rossi bindings with the metal "basket" around the heel of the boot being banged by edges (edges there can get burred too)...

Also I find this one-legged balance at turn initiation sometimes problematic while going through irregularities of the crud...

Or maybe it's just me...
post #4 of 33
I have to echo Gravity's response.

I'm astonished that he would be deviating that far from current thinking. In general recreational skiing has followed the trends set by WC racing (however toned down). Elite racers usually are the first to discover newer, more efficient and effective ways to ski. Harold seems to be reverting to the days of his youth. That's too bad. I guess he's probably doing it to show a distinct difference between his teachings and other methods (primarily ATS/PSIA). Remember, he is trying to sell a product for profit, so he needs to differentiate himself. And he probably figures that if the styles are too similar, people will just go with the norm (ATS). If he shows the public something drastically different, then people looking for something, anything, different, will go to him.

I have never skied with him, but I get the impression that his style is fluid, elegant and graceful, but would seriously lack power, control and versatility. Even though I know that he could probably ski with power, he just refuses to teach a technique that would allow it, because other methods of teaching already offer that.

My $.02. The check's in the mail
post #5 of 33
I haven't read Harald's new book yet but I skied for a week with him when he was on the D team and skied with Lito at his Aspen clinic. Nothing against Lito, but I would take Harb's style in a second over Lito's
post #6 of 33
Gravity and John, I have Harb's first book but have not seen his second (and probably will not), but even in his first book he stresses one-ski skiing.

And before you guys were born, we used to ski one ski, the outside ski, out of necessity, just to bend it.

The upshot of this kind of skiing is that with no weight on the inside ski, it swims and wobbles all over unless it is stabilized against the leg/boot/ski that has weight on it by pressing it together.

Looks like Harb is teaching this in his new book.

What goes around, comes around


Gee, had to edit for spelling, I shouldn't post while I have a Manhatten <FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Ott Gangl (edited March 14, 2001).]</FONT>
post #7 of 33
We see Harb fairly often at Loveland. He lives only 20 minutes away. He does ski with his feet close together, with no weight on the up hill ski, and with the tail of the inside ski lifted at the start of the turn. Wouldn't work for running GS. Incidently, Diane occasionally trains with us. I've never seen him run gates, but he is a solid skier.
post #8 of 33
Mr. Intermediate amateur here: My son tells me, "Dad, you could ski those bumps easier is you kept your feet closer together." Fact: The more I try to do this, the better I ski. My feet are not GLUED togther so that the rivits touch, but they are brought together so they will not split in powder, bumps, and on those narrow steep twisting rocky eastern trails I keep barking about. The latest from Harb seems, in all candor, to go too damned far in the glued foot business. However, his orginal premise - that teaching people intentionally to ski with their skis wide apart is folly - I embrace with my heart and sole. I have had so called "modern" instruction for shaped skis, and the stance I was told to adopt was damned uncomfortable, made skiing more difficult, and just plain sucks in the places and conditions where I choose to ski. There seems to me to be so very, very much in ski instruction - whether old style or new style - that is needlessly "contrived", to use a word seen above, or "doctrinaire". If you professionals really want to teach beginners and intermediates to learn and enjoy skiing, why not focus on developing balance, and ALL skills [rotary, pressure, edging]. Let the customer try all kinds of different things, and the customer will decide [we're not all alike, you know]. I have grown weary of this debate over the "catechism of skiing" and highly technical direction of customers [ya - we're CUSTOMERS]. I can think of some books which seem to accept that we are subjective humans, not machines. The classic "Centered Skier", by Denise McLuggage; "Skiing with the Whole Body", by Jack Heggie; Dan Egan's "All-Terrain Skiing", with his practice drills; "The All-Mountain Skier", by R. Mark Elling, with his so very non-authoritarian approach and options for ways to ski bumps; "Inner Skiing", by Gallway and Kriegel, with particular reference to how skiing skills are learned; and finally, "The Skier's Edge", from Ron LeMaster, with clear demonstration of mechanical concepts. Of course, there are other books I've read and from which I've derived value, no doubt about it. I mention these, however, because they particularly illustrate the non-authoritarian and customer-centered approach. Although I have read Warren Witherell's "Athletic Skier", and although I most certainly respect the man, his knowledge and his accomplishments, I found the book to be preach - yes, PREACH - carving as the be all and end all GOOD way to ski, and skidding as the bad and PAINFUL way to ski. "How the Racers Ski" is not how we mere mortals ski, can ski or ever WILL ski. Besides, in addition to racing, there are other aspects of the sport [!!!]. I recall watching Rob DesLauriers nearing the point of profanity [well, he just APPEARED to be nearing the point of profanity, I'm sure]. He was giving one of his clinics at - of all places - Bolton Valley, Vermont, which was then owned by his dad Ralph DesLauriers. Rob was beautifully demonstrating a smooth turn with a lot of pressure on the front of the ski and a substantial amount of "not carving" from the rear of the ski, which was really effective at bleeding speed. In the places and fashion that Rob skis, one does not seek to maintain or increase speed in the way the racers do, but rather to maintain control in those "X-stream" conditions for which he and others have become so well known. Anyway, please, please: Consider us your customers; consider our needs, our desires, and our varying abilities; consider that there is snow, terrain, conditions, pressure, rotary and edging; and that there art no other gods before us. Amen<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by oboe (edited March 14, 2001).]</FONT>
post #9 of 33
Yes, I'd have to agree with a lot of what you said. And judging by what someone was telling me of Harb's technique recently - that he's adamant about no steering, only edging, etc. - it sounds like he's into espousing extremes of technique.

~Michelle H.
post #10 of 33
I think Harb has some merit, although I will have to test it on the snow. I am about half-way through his second book. Last weekend I was on a pair of less agressively shaped skis (Dynastar SF's) and found that if I first rolled the uphill ski on edge to initiate the turn then managed the inside foot, I would sometimes get hung up on the inside foot - it would block increased edging. It was better when I moved my feet closer. Harb's theme (as far as I am in the book) seems that you initiate the flattening with the stance ski first, then lifting the tail, bring it in to the other boot, and then tip the now inside ski to turn (the phantom foot). I don't think the bots have to touch but it is consistent with his external focus. By touching, it keeps it managed and it also keeps both feet together presumably for better fore/aft balance. One problem that I had with Harb, is that as I recall, the only justification he had for this technique was that it would look good.

Submitted for your approval...
<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by SnoWonder (edited March 14, 2001).]</FONT>
post #11 of 33

I think everybody is distracted by this apparent lack of steering in his teachings - and this is not really an issue here...

I believe the "phantom move" is this gimmick.

Diverging inside ski on a outside edge pushed against FLAT stance ski using boot pressure as a lever provides STEERING.

Paradoxically for this to work well no OTHER steering should be interfering - so Harb is adamant about leaving stance ski alone during "phantom move" - no (OTHER) steering, no (other) edging until it develop itself during the turn.

In all fairness I believe the (first) book do not require boots "glued" through the whole turn (you can see that on his pics) - once carved turn starts with no additional steering required the free ski is coming down to what looks like a natural stance and then during the transition phase the whole "edge/boot steering" thing ("phantom move") starts again...

(Although in a short radius turns where steering is desired for a better part of the turn this "boot" steering is recommended to continue through the turn I believe...)

So steering IS happenning - everybody who tried his method knows that - it just he advocates this particular (if somewhat contrived) way to do that - and the way he teaches it - "phantom move" INSTEAD of steering - confuses the heck out of everybody... "Phantom move" IS the way to steer in his book.

Advantage here is that with his method it is difficult to start skidded turn and it forces the student to quickly develop carved turn through patient entrance and gradually increasing edging. That's what he sells and it works.

But I feel one-legged balance act is a disadvantage in advanced skiing situation...

So, I think it's not an all-encompassing way to ski - but just an instruction technique for quick intro to carved parallel turns...
post #12 of 33

Just curious, what would the limitations of Harb's technique be for GS racing? Would that hold for recreational racing? Is edging the little toe side of the ski just another way to manage the inside ski properly or does it help in other ways?

post #13 of 33

Somehow I have a feeling that this forum is not a real good place for Harb to have "un-biased review"

As far as I remember in the book and video Harb do not claim that he "invented" the move - he says almost exactly what you've said - that best skiers are using this move - and he will be the one who will teach you skiing using it. In his tape he shows clips of leading racers apparently performing it... The reason he calls it "phantom" is that he says it is not easily seen in expert skiing... What's wrong with all that?

I'm not Harb's fan - I've just read his book (as well as other books), saw his tape, did exercises - I do not have any beef with him or PSIA. I'm just trying to understand - as a student - if there's more to it than just proffesional or business or personal, or whatever rivalry that some of you guys are demonstrating here and that I don't care about... I really would like to see an "un-biased review" - that's why I'm in this thread...

So what's the problem? You don't like the way Harb steers? Contrived? But you said that others are (were) doing it all along... Or everybody who did already stopped doing that? His boots are not really glued... So, what is so terribly wrong? Can anybody who really read the book or saw his video provide some constructive and "un-biased" criticism?

post #14 of 33
Gravity: I am the person to whom you e-mailed your phone number, told me about yourself, and invited me to make a few turns with you. In fact, that's why I called and left a message. The fault is mine in failing clearly to identify myself, and I'll try again soon. As to my rantings above, please be patient with me. I am, after all, an amateur and an intermediate, emotionally "letting go" and referring to experiences I have had - and with which many others would identify. However, as with tennis instructors, ski instructors all are different, and some have provided me with more useful advice than others. I have benefitted enough from books, articles and posts on this forum to know that there are some very, very good people out there teaching skiing. I've heard that you're the best of the best, and I still look forward to meeting with you.
post #15 of 33
P.S. I do NOT want to ski like a monoped - far from it. I do not "glue" my boots together, and don't particularly care to do that. However, skiing bumps and powder in "A-Frame" mode has been detrimental to my enjoyment, so my son advised me to "try" to keep my feet closer togther. I still CAN'T get them all that close, but by trying to pull them together, I get less hung up in bumps, powder, and those narrow twisting trails with natural snow. When others have tried to get me to ski with a WIDER stance, it just screws me up. Believe me, Gravity, when you see me ski - and I am hoping that you will - it will be apparent what I'm talking about. On Witherell, again, I respect him, but I need more than carving skills to navigate the trails and conditions I prefer. I realy would like the opportunity to discuss this and skiing in general with you person to person. Best regards, oboe
post #16 of 33
>>>So what's the problem? <<<

Alex, part of the problem is that teaching skiing in this country is coming apart, regressing 40 years.

Not the skiing, but 40 years ago, if you took a lesson in Vermont and the next one in Aspen, you were told to just forget what the guy in Vermont told you and start all over again with the Aspen technique. And then you went to Michigan and it started all over again, just like with golf pros, forget what the previous pro told you, do like I say.

In the 60s USSA, and then PSIA developed a unified teaching technique which evolved over the years to fit the average student in the US , according to one of my previous examiners she is Mrs. Smythe from Birmingham, a little overweight home maker in her 40s who is bored with bowling and is trying something new.

The result was that a pretty solid, ever evolving teaching method exists now where you can take a lesson anywhere in the country and you will not be told to forget anything, rather the lesson builds on top of all your previous lessons, using the same terminalogy.

Some of the animosity toward Harb comes from his repackaging the PSIA product with new labels and minor changes and calling it his own invention. Plus he calls many if not all of the PSIA teaching as >dead end< moves dispite that a few million people have learned to ski quite well with it.

post #17 of 33

You say : "One problem that I had with Harb, is that as I recall, the only justification he had for this technique was that it would look good."

I never saw such "justification" - can you check that? In his first book the whole Chapter I can be considered a justification - he uses a "kinetic chain" concept that is also explained in Chapter12.

For more serious treatment of this matter you may want to take a look at his "PMTS: Instructor Manual" complete with comparison to PSIA teaching methods.

Gee, I never thought I'll be defending Harb -for me it is just yet another book, another skill, another method - but I'd expect a little more serious and objective discussion from Barking Bears

Try it - if anything his balance exercises are fun!

Best Regards - AlexS<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by AlexS (edited March 15, 2001).]</FONT>
post #18 of 33
It seems this topic surfaces alot in the ski world a couple of observations from my soap box. People around the world ski many different ways, I would like to learn all of them! I think any quest for knowledge is a good one the more movements you have at your disposal the less anything will give you trouble. I have always said what seperates a good skier from a great skier is that the great skier fakes it better. When I watch great skiers they have a flow down the mountain, I know they get out of balance, caught inside, brace, skid etc... BUT they do the next move that puts them right back in balance and to the untrained eye you don't even notice! I think Harb has some good thoughts and activities to enhance skiing, There is no arguing his credentials. I also feel many of the movements he describes are best done with both feet on the ground! Some of the dig on PSIA I think comes from a lack of knowledge. PSIA instructors should not be teaching a wedge they should be teaching the fundamental skills. If you teach people to be balanced over there equipement, turn thier legs in the pelvis, edge engage and more importantly edge disengage all while dealing with the pressure that develops you will produce good skiers. THEN depending on speed, equipment, athletic ability, slope and snow conditions you will have some people end up in a wedge some may go straight to parrall but most will pass through what is the centerline wedge, wedge christy, open parrall, and dynamic parrall and this will change from day to day. I would ask every skier including Harold Harb that put in conditions and pitch that was not comfortable did they not travel back down the center line and ski maybe a step below what they had hoped??? I guess I have rambled enough! Seek info and use what works!!! TodO
post #19 of 33
Oh boy, Alex, we are opening this can of worms again. First let me say that you can learn to ski correctly through most any system being taught today. Learning to ski is just that. You learn. after that, with time spent skiing on your own, you will devlop a style that suits you. If you notice that you are not advancing or some other problem has crept in, have a professional look and diagnose it and give you corrections.

There are dozens of small teaching seminars like Harb's by the Mahre brothers,at al, and Harb has a rightful place among them, but
PMTS is no more nor less than the others.

Invariable ALL teaching systems have the majority of moves in common with some variations, what varies most is the approach, the teaching method. Harb's approach works with small, specialized groups. At the small 240ft vertical hills near me in Ohio, 2000-3000 student hour lessons are given DAILY by 370 PSIA instructors, which maybe more that PMTS does all year.

Why Harb's method wouldn't work here is that most of these kids are from school ski clubs with annual contracts, more interested in socializing than learning to ski, often showing up with gandpa's 30-year-old equipment. Harb's claim that he could handle a couple thousand kids of varying interests and abilities a day just isn't viable.

Your PSIA instructor did what all of us do, or should do, and that is look at your present skill and take you ahead from there. We all have had outstanding athletes who have never skied before and in one day ripped the blue trails in parallel.

PSIA tries to serve the public in a fashion as other countries do in Europe and around the world with a unified system which arguably is at a slower pace and more cumbersome just because it has to teach all comers.

You asked about the huge bureocracy of PSIA, there really is no such thing. They are a certifying agency which certifies the competency of an instructor to teach it's program. We have several instructors in our ski school which are Austrian, Swiss and French certified along with PSIA and ther is really no conflict, they teach whatever is asked of them.

As for threatening PSIA certified instructor, I bet 98 percent of them have never even heard of Harb or his method. Harb's system was given a shot at a number of ski areas including Aspen and Winter Park and was deemed to work with select and properly equiped skiers but useless in the mass-market.

Why PSIA people don't like Harb is that he has been insulting about a system of which he was part for a long time. The other specialized teaching systems and their founders had no need to do that, why Harb?

post #20 of 33

While I agree with you 100%, I do think MilesB started this topic with a real, and valid post that has not been addressed, and I thank him for that. I would not have read the book, so it's good to get an objective, first hand opinion of it from the start.

However, it's true that no matter how appropriately the topic started off, if it has to do with Harold Harb, it is more likely than not, to end up in the same old debate.

Been there, done that, didn't buy the t-shirt (or the book)
post #21 of 33
Thread Starter 
I think some of you are missing the point of this post. I didn't mean to start this argument again. I just don't feel that this is a very well written book. As I have said, I will try the movements in the book. Then, you can be sure that I'll have something to say, whether it's positive or negative. And Bob Barnes is correct- PMTS teaches carving. That is why i purchased this book- to learn some of Harb's carving "secrets", after seeing his amazing skiing in Lito's video. So SETTLE DOWN!
post #22 of 33

Thanks for a thoughtful reply!

If I understand you correctly your concerns are primarily and strictly proffessional and has little to do with his teaching method.

So Harb's students may not worry that they are learning dead-end technique or otherwise develop something that they will need to forget or unlearn as they advance, correct? Especially if it is just repackaged PSIA program...

I'm curious though - do you think "Harb's" system ("PMTS") threatens unified ski instruction in USA? Is it so popular? I've checked on his website and it lists just a handful instructors certified to teach PMTS. On my mountain instructors that I talked to either never heard of it or were outright against it. On the other hand when I took a private with L3 PSIA instructor he didn't seem to have big issues with my parallel turns (at my level ) that were I believe influenced by the Harb's book - and he was satisfied with my wedge turns (he did check these first) although I did them second time in my life. At least I was not told to forget anything - so it would seem PMTS is quite compatible with PSIA instruction.

On "repackaging" PSIA product. Does or does not PMTS offer a teaching progression that is different from PSIA? No wedges, "phantom move" in a center of progression with no big rotary movements from hips, carving for parallel turn etc. Of course, Harb's system did not invent skiing itself - but teaching is all about progressions. If you invent a new - as you'd believe - more efficient curriculum for teaching, say, chemistry - do you have a right to say that you invented a new teaching method? Despite the fact that everything in your curriculum can be found in older chemistry books?

Could it be that PSIA just a huge bureaucratic organization that just guards its monopoly on ski instruction? If this is so, as a consumer I'm all for more choices. Maybe some people in the beginning just cannot maintain balance or tip on a "little toe" - well, they can always start wedge turns at PSIA school. Those who are eager to do parallel carved turns and good at balancing can start doing this on their first/second day at PMTS school. I do not see anything wrong with that...

Unless, of course, there's fundamental flaw in PMTS - then, let the dirty secret out!

Thanks!<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by AlexS (edited March 15, 2001).]</FONT>
post #23 of 33

Thanks for finding it in your heart to post on this topic and to turn back to technical issues and skiing!

I'm posting my version of "unbiased" review on his FIRST (I do not have a second) book, video, and instuctors manual below - since I believe this forum didn't have one yet

But first - here're some last comments on my exit from this unhappy soapbox:

>>Why is it that every time a discussion of Harald Harb comes up, it quickly leaves the solid ground of technique discussion, and turns into a war of politics and people "siding" with or against Mr. Harb? <<

My question exactly!! All I wanted to see was as promised in the title - an unbiased review. Instead it quickly regressed into Harb's bashing based on mis-representation, hearsay, professional loyalties and personal preferences - only this time I didn't want you guys to get away with it

>>Go back into the archives here and elsewhere and you will find little that hasn't been discussed<<

I did that in the beginning of my season looking for instructional materials knowing nothing about skiing yet - and after sensing the same bias and prejudice I went out and unlike some posters here actually bought and study his materials to make up my own mind. I also bought other books, including your "Encyclopedia", Bob - Thanks!(BTW - I couldn't find an entry there describing the move that Harb calls "phantom move" - under what name it is there? Is there "PSIA correct" term for it? - Gravity says it is a well-known move... )

>>PMTS teaches CARVING<<
Gravity - see, carving, not skidding - take it from BobB if you don't believe me

>>So the discussion of "PMTS vs. PSIA" as two "competing teaching systems" is silly and misses the point. <<

Ott - I guess this kills your argument about throwing ski instruction back into anarchy

>>...PSIA people don't like Harb...<<
Thanks, Ott - I've noticed


And now - my unsolicited and "unbiased" review of Harb's FIRST book, video and instructor manual.

DISCLAIMER: I'm just an intermediate ski student, I am not a ski pro and do not have any professional affiliations in the skiing world.

I found the book exceptionally well written and illustrated. Every movement/exercise in a progression contain general description of the goal, brief summary of exersise, excellent step by step photosequence with detailed explanation for every frame, and bullet list summary of the key points of exercise.

I've used the book to teach myself carved parallel turns bypassing the wedge (as ajax noticed wedge is not very useful thing for big guys like me - 240lbs )

IMO the technique itself will not suit everybody or every skiing situation. You can enter the PMTS progression at any level - for a beginner who's willing and able it will get you to carve parallel turns on a hard groomed surface very fast and you will not do wedge turns - instead you'll be balancing on one leg a lot But linked banana turns are really fun to do! And those who do turns well as PMTS teaches do look good too (on a hard groomed surface, at least)

In the end I found myself using "phantom moves" style mostly on a hard packed smooth surfaces (to look good ) and adopting more two-footed stance on a soft, cruddy, bumpy snow..

Video is absolute must IMO to use with the book - start with a video then following the book would be much easier. If you have to chose - get the video - but the book has more of interesting exersises and still photo sequences are excellent! Harb does real good job there to sell, explain and demonstrate his progression. He also includes video clips of modern World Cup racers in slow mo doing "phantom move" in GS.

If you're interested to know more technical details/motivation behind the system, or want to teach your friend or SO the same technique - get "PMTS: Instructor Manual"

Overall - I rate Harb's materials as a "strong buy", but do not expect that this is all you have to learn about skiing - especially expert skiing. As far as fundamental question goes (the one that I had while shopping for instruction)- can I learn carved parallel turns directly and quickly? - for most poeople the answer is yes, as BobB says if you're willing to stop whining and just do the book. I also found that after following Harb's progression I can learn other types of turns, and skiing rather easily - probably due to original focus on sensory feedback for proper doses of edging, steering and balance. So, IMO if you really geared up for a quick progression through self-teaching - you owe it to yourself to try it - you may grow to appreciate it as I did.

By all means take lessons but you'll probably find that all your hard work weren't a waste of time and you can start working with instructor at much higher level that you would otherwise - and believe me it is much more fun that way


I hope some of this forum readers will find this review at least marginally useful.

With respect - AlexS
<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by AlexS (edited March 15, 2001).]</FONT><FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by AlexS (edited March 15, 2001).]</FONT>
post #24 of 33
Good post milesb......

Every so often something really good will come from those fringe "deviants" such as Harb. Every so often something is resurrected from some forgotten style and given a new name.

They should be given latitude and allowed to play without too much gunfire.

The PSIA is a wonderful tool for standardizing and providing unity and direction however, until they develop a "creative skiing/R&D" department we need the likes of HH.
post #25 of 33
Great post MilesB and great response BobB and AlexS.
Thanks for the history Ott,

You have to take everything you learn and apply it to yourself. Blend it together and find your own style of learning and skiing.

now lets go enjoy the spring snow and have fun...
<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by dchan (edited March 15, 2001).]</FONT>
post #26 of 33
Well, at this point I don't give a damn, just learn to ski any which way and enjoy it, who cares anyway.

In my previous post I tried to explain what went before and why, but aparently I didn't get through to some of you. So be it.

post #27 of 33

Please, don't be this way - let's all have a Manhattan and ski some more...

I know it doesn't matter to you - but still, believe me, everything you've said was not lost at least on me. I always appreciate and enjoy your historical perspective on every aspect of skiing. You don't know me but I've read everything you wrote here for the whole year - so I feel as if I know you well and like you a lot...

Respectfully - AlexS
post #28 of 33
Alex, I was just disgusted by all our nit-picking about ski instructing, thus my last post. In actuality you can learn to ski from any bonafide instructor of any stripe.

If you can make yourself available to Harb's teaching, he will make a super skier out of you, no daubt, as will any PSIA or other system instructor who is qualified to teach your level of skill.

I think that what really differntiates your speed of advancement in class is whether you take a private or class lesson. In class lesson the pearls of wisdom are just strewn across the masses, some get it, some don't, and if one of the class can't keep up, the instructor gets tied up in bringing the stragler up to the class standard, seriously neglecting the rest. It really can't be helped, as often there is nowhere to send the lagger.

Alex, I try to keep my sense of humor about skiing and all the pleasure it brought me over the years, but sometimes I get so involved in discussions about which teaching system is better that it really gets me down.

But not for long! This is another day and I'm rarin' to go...

BTW, you made many good points in your posts, that is why I replied to them,

Thanks, Alex.. ...Ott
post #29 of 33
Three comments on the technique taught by Harb and Lito:
1) As long as you're going to lift the inside foot as they propose, you're better balanced with the feet close together before you lift one.

2) Tilting the inside, off-the-snow foot does get the body set up in a good position for edging the on-the-snow outside foot and balancing the body during the turn. It's a simple little move, and it does seem to work....

3) The whole thing requires well fitted boots. Two-footed, wide stance skiing is probably necessary for the skiers with boots that are bedroom-slipper-comfy, and other rear-entry boot attributes.
post #30 of 33
Thread Starter 
One thing I neglected to mention is that Harb has "self tests" at the end of each section so that you can be sure that you are performing each movement correctly. This is something that seems essential for self teaching from a book or a video, so this is another check in the + column.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › An unbiased (sort of) review of Harald Harb's new book