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First powder runs what do I need to do next

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 

Did my first powder runs ever end of last week. By the second day was feeling kind of comfortable in open, moderate sloped bowls but still tentative and it shows at some points. Also still resorted to weighting one ski more than the other to turn at times, also seemed like one ski would go off onits own at times and I had to pull it back in,  and my fore and aft balance got thrown off kilter when hitting some tracked stuff or crust. I kept it together but was moving fore and aft to do so.

 

Overall the feeling was great but I want to do steeps and start skiing some trees as well and I do not feel I have the control yet to do that. Conz vs. tree = Conz

 

I attached a link to a video of a run. Its pretty rough I know so don't be shy. Any tips, advice or drills would be appreciated. I was skiing K2 Coombas 181.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_5gXtMKogo

 

 

post #2 of 13

thecomz,

 

Looks like a real quad-burner.  A taller/longer stance will put you more over the skis.  From there, work on simultaneous edge release/re-engagement.  Flex from the ankles, instead of the knee/waist bend.  You may consider loosing the backpack, it looks cumbersome.

 

RW

post #3 of 13

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theconz View Post

 

Did my first powder runs ever end of last week. By the second day was feeling kind of comfortable in open, moderate sloped bowls but still tentative and it shows at some points. Also still resorted to weighting one ski more than the other to turn at times, also seemed like one ski would go off onits own at times and I had to pull it back in,  and my fore and aft balance got thrown off kilter when hitting some tracked stuff or crust. I kept it together but was moving fore and aft to do so.

 

Overall the feeling was great but I want to do steeps and start skiing some trees as well and I do not feel I have the control yet to do that. Conz vs. tree = Conz

 

I attached a link to a video of a run. Its pretty rough I know so don't be shy. Any tips, advice or drills would be appreciated. I was skiing K2 Coombas 181.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_5gXtMKogo

 

 

 

you have no dynamic balance or at least arent using it.

 

ski with your feet closer together and go faster would be my first things I would work on with you but there is alot that can be done. higher speed hides flaws and make up for lack of balance.


 

1.You upper and lower body are attached by all accounts, this is something you can correct skiing anyday on a groomer. this would be one of the biggest reasons that skiing tight trees was fairly hard. basically in powder the fact your turn your body with your legs is holding you back. If you can ski with you feet independent of your body youll be much better off. The fact you bank(inclinate) instead of angulate isnt a bad thing in powder, in fact in the right setting inclinated turns have a real place in powder skiing. I am willing to bet you bank on groomers/hardpack as well. Which is pretty ineffecient skiing if that is an overall theme to your skiing.

 

 

2.Lose the pack, your skiing in bounds its not hard to leave your stuff in the lodge or your car and return if you need it.

 

FYI your not going to learn this with out real face to face to coaching but here is the simplest terms I can explain anyways.

 

Work on makes sure your legs turn from the femurs down, basically learn how to turns your legs WITHOUT turning you waist/hip at all.

 

then find a focus point down the hill(pick a lift tower or something) and ski while always looking at that point and thinks about moving you body as quickly as possiable toward that 'point'. Notice a said body not legd you still want your legs taking the slowest possiable line for whatever speed your are skiing while your body flows down the hill.

 

come back post some groomer skiing as well. What your doing on a groomer is directly applicable to how you ski powder.

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #4 of 13
Thread Starter 

Okay I will post some groomer video. I have a Camelback bladder I use when I hike but it has no straps of its own so I stick it in the pack. I will just get a bladder with back straps and lose the pack.

 

I feel very comfortable on groomers and try to focus on keeping my upper body pointed straight down the fall line. Yes, I do lean into my turns on groomers but I love that feeling of swooping like a bird. I do big GS turns and don't use my poles just swoop from turn to turn and put my arms out like wings and just slight shift weight from one ski to other when initiating a turn . Almost like flying. The second best feeling in skiing. Like you say a video of groomed skiing is probably where I need to start.

 

I get confused sometimes. I thought banking into turns as opposed to weighting/unweighting was what was being taught now? The ankle flex you are referring to I assume is to shift wight fore and aft.

 

Yup, at first my quads were getting hammered but as I relaxed it got less so. I will get some groomer video asap.

 

Thank you!

 

Oh, and you are absolutley right I need to take lessons big time! That is on the agenda.

 

 


Edited by theconz - 3/9/2009 at 01:10 pm
post #5 of 13

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theconz View Post

 

Okay I will post some groomer video. I have a Camelback bladder I use when I hike but it has no straps of its own so I stick it in the pack. I will just get a bladder with back straps and lose the pack.

 

I feel very comfortable on groomers and try to focus on keeping my upper body pointed straight down the fall line. Yes, I do lean into my turns on groomers but I love that feeling of swooping like a bird. I do big GS turns and don't use my poles just swoop from turn to turn and put my arms out like wings and just slight shift weight from one ski to other when initiating a turn . Almost like flying. The second best feeling in skiing. Like you say a video of groomed skiing is probably where I need to start.

 

I get confused sometimes. I thought banking into turns as opposed to weighting/unweighting was what was being taught now? The ankle flex you are referring to I assume is to shift wight fore and aft.

 

Yup, at first my quads were getting hammered but as I relaxed it got less so. I will get some groomer video asap.

 

Thank you!

 

Oh, and you are absolutley right I need to take lessons big time! That is on the agenda.

 

 


Edited by theconz - 3/9/2009 at 01:10 pm

 

try to do some short turns on groomers and post them up.

 

banking is being taught in some areas of the PSIA right now......not such an issue here but a huge issue on groomers. leaning into your turn is crap skiing and will not produce the highest edge angle most dynamic turns you can on groomers. It can be a cool feeling but you can turn 'better' without the inclination.

 

upunweighting isnt really a theme to any organizations of teaching. its actually a useful skill to know though for tight stuff because sometime you need quick pivots. unweighting whether though extentsion or flexion would be desirable in the skiing you are doing here.

 

 

post #6 of 13

I'm merely a novice myself, but it appears from the video that you're turning your shoulder into the turn. Try turning with your knees instead. It might help. The powder looks good. All I had was mashed potatoes and grater grills last weekend.

post #7 of 13

I'm not an instructor, but I've been skiing for a long time and I ski a lot of powder and PNW pseudo-pow, so take this for what it's worth.  One thing nobody has mentioned is that your hands are coming down to your side.  Hold them in front of you and make pole plants more from the wrist than from the arm.  This will help keep you over your skis because your arms have weight and if you hold this mass out in front of you it will be difficult to have your weight back. This will also help keep you from swinging your body around. 

 

I see lots of advice above but if you try to concentrate on too many things at once you won't do any of them.  Pick one or two that make sense to you and keep them in the front of your mind until they work.

post #8 of 13
Thread Starter 

Yup there is a lot there to digest but there is a lot to work on too!

 

Along with lessons, I agree trying to fix too many things at once just makes you think to much and not relax.

 

Any consensus on what one or two items would be the first to work on?

 

When I'm doing lots of short turns on steeps I am not "swooping". I am trying to face down the fall line, use pole plants down and forward to keep me leaning over the skis and to keep my upper body down the fall line as much as possible, and use edging with knees and ankles to initiate turns. Different than GS turns on blues and greens.

 

Not sure if that relates to powder. I really do need to take lessons though. Haven't taken one all year and I should be taking one everytime I go or at least every couple of times.

post #9 of 13


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theconz View Post

 

When I'm doing lots of short turns on steeps I am not "swooping". I am trying to face down the fall line, use pole plants down and forward to keep me leaning over the skis and to keep my upper body down the fall line as much as possible, and use edging with knees and ankles to initiate turns. Different than GS turns on blues and greens.

 

I think what banking means has to be clarified...

 

You cannot "swoop" when there isn't enough angular speed, especially when you're banking. In fact, if you bank at low speed (or just standing around), you can tip over. By banking, we mean you upper body is leaning straight and it's perpendicular to the skis' edge angle. To help keep your body on top of your skis, you upper body has to be more boxy or more vertical to the snow (IOW, you body is bent at the waist sideways). That will allow you to get on your edges more at almost any moving speed and swoop. Also, one other down side of banking is that if you happen to ski over a hard or icy patch, your skis will bite much better so you're less like to skid off and/or fall.

post #10 of 13

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

  

2.Lose the pack, your skiing in bounds its not hard to leave your stuff in the lodge or your car and return if you need it. 

 

Or at least properly buckle your pack. Looked like it was moving around. Use the waist and chest straps, pull the should straps tight. Some packs have additional straps to squeeze down volume when not completely full of stuff.

 

Personally, I don't leave things in the lodge because I don't go to the lodge (and don't want to be forced to lodge at end of day to retrieve items). I don't leave things in the car because that's usually way too far away. So, I use a light pack for h2o, spare goggles, lunch, phone, keys, wallet, etc. I've tried pocket cramming, but I find bulging pockets more annoying than the pack.

post #11 of 13
Thread Starter 

I think I understand what you are saying about body position. Instead of leaning into the inside of the turn and being one straight line, sort of, from ankles to head,  I should be more bent at the waist trying to keep my upper body inline with the snow surface (straight up and down as much as possible) while my legs are more angled to edge the skis. Like a L , sort of, with the small part of the L being my legs and skis and the tall part being my body. Of course the small part of the L would actually be angled down more to represent the legs and skis on edge.

 

Or am I totally off base, LOL? I really need to see it hence instructor and/or video.

post #12 of 13

Here is a thread with much more information on edging, banking, carving, etc.

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/8646/formal-definitions-for-banking-angulation-edging-inclination

post #13 of 13

:04 seconds--look how your shoulders are tipped toward the hill.  Bad boy.  Soften a bit at the waist so the shoulders are level while the legs are tilted inward.  See that right hand low & back?  It (inside hand/arm/shoulder) needs to be higher and forward.

 

:04+ seconds--really looks like you're forcing your skis around by twisting your shoulders around to the right (to the inside).  Really bad boy.  Put those skis on edge and let them turn you.  Visualize an airplane banking in a turn in the ski.  Visualize your skis on edge in the snow with the pressure of the snow decambering them (curving them), and the skis turn you.

 

:05 seconds--that wide stance hurts your skiing.  On packed snow your stance should be walking width.  In powder closer is better. 

 

:07--really leaning inside, and you look really heavy on the inside ski.  Both skis need to be equally weighted.

 

:08+--note how your feet get wider apart?...keep the weight equal on both and both close together.

 

:10--note the position of your heels under the center of your body?  Your feet are too far forward.  The picture should show your heels under your butt and the center of your feet under the center of your body.  Do this...on a slope sidestep backwards diagonally uphill.  Note the feeling of your ankles and shins against the tongue of the boot.  Ski with that same feeling against the tongue all the time*.  Pull your feet back under you to get that correct center balance.

 

:11--great inclination...

 

When you find that centered balanced point both fore & aft and laterally you'll know that magical feeling of being "over your skis" and your skiing will come alive.

 

*Two exceptions..(a) when skiing from groom to deep snow or toward an upward rise push your feet forward into the deep snow or up the rise, then promptly recenter, (b) when skiing in very heavy wet slop sit back and burn those thighs.

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