Big skis = can't ski? - Page 2

J2R, I ski fat skis a lot. The post was sort of a coincidence of timing, this thread and your thread sort of started at the same time... I found that ironic and kinda funny.

I also didn't 'Quote' you, so you just outed yourself...

How about we talk about the countless hacks on GS skis with 140 flex boots doing backseat skidded turns down a blue groomer with very little control? The ones that insist it is impossible to ski(d) well without having 100% perfect boot fit, the perfect edge tune and the right wax.

Sorry, I think I just offended half the people on this site.

Quote:

Originally Posted by karpiel 

 

Sorry, I think I just offended half the people on this site.

Way more than that.

Bad skiing = bad skiing. Equipment is irrelevant in the quest to isolate the terrible skiers on the mountain.

I just don't see many skiers with high end race gear and poor technique, except the younger race crowd that haven't got the miles in yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slider 

 

I just don't see many skiers with high end race gear and poor technique, except the younger race crowd that haven't got the miles in yet.

I don't think it needs to be relagated only to race gear. There are plenty of skiers on the mountain hacking around on skis that are way beyond their current level of skiing. I guess that is another thread topic, but it is the truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by karpiel 

 

How about we talk about the countless hacks on GS skis with 140 flex boots doing backseat skidded turns down a blue groomer with very little control?

huh......I don't see that much anymore.   Used to, but they all moved to twintips.  Now it seems hardly anyone uses a race ski unless they race, at least a little bit. 

Awww Man Just when I was gunna buy a helmet!!!

I figgured it would be a good idea so when I'm flyin straight down the hill on my 140 flex boots mounted on top of my go fast race skis ( which I can't turn) when I got to the bottom of the hill I could wack the lift line and slow down in time to get a beer.

Oh but I do have a question "what ever happin to speed skiing?"

I always carry a pack, It has food in one pocket and Old Boot's shoes in the other so it's easier for him to walk up the hill, when he has a yard sale while speed skiing on his go fast race skis, as those 140 flex boots, don't work so well on the way back up. 

In case you were still wondering what people carry in those packs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rio 

 

I've been one of th posers skiing Schlashman's the past two weekends on oversized skis, 185cm Nordica Blowers with a 110mm waist.  I normally ski it on my 181cm/99mm waist Elan 999s or 178cm/88cm waist Mythic Riders but I needed something to keep me from sinking into the wind & sun set snow.  The Blowers allowed me to ski the south facing snow last weekend that nobody else was venturing into.  Today, the Blowers helped but the snow was so chunked up with deep traverses all over I decided to head back to the South Bowl and North Bowl.  When I got back to more skied terrain I really regretted being on the Blowers as they are too clunky & slow for moguls and groomers.

Edited by Rio - 3/7/2009 at 11:13 pm

Hey Rio, Wow, Those Mythics sound mountainous.  What exactly do you use the 88cm Mythic Riders for?  The tube run standing up?  Are they good in trees, kind of like bumpers cars only bumper skis off the trees?  They sound bigger then the tree wells, so they probably prevent landing in those too.  I bet when you jump they fly well too, kind of like your own mini airplane on your feet.

Okay I'm being silly, but you may just want to change cm to mm.  They do sound kind of fun though, in a strange sorta way.

Nolo-

I haven't read anything in the thread beyond your initial post. I'm assuming its turning into the normal " fat skis are cheater skis and real skiers don't need anything over 80mm" etc etc.

Bridger's situation is... scary. The people who are there who shouldn't be there. The trouble people have gotten themselves into. Its all bad news. I would love to see a different policy in place. Shovel and probe required would be a good start etc etc. Too many people just don't belong.

On the other side. (I've moved from Bozeman to Lake Placid)

I've been volunteering at many ski races this year.

Some of the races are the poorest skiers I have ever seen. Ever. Period. Its pathetic. Course workers were appalled when people were complaining the slalom set was too easy yet most racers failed to set an edge and carve a turn throughout the length of the course. Those who had to most trouble with the course were the forerunners (local youth racers) and the few who had the skills to "go for it".

I'm all for people enjoying themselves regardless of how well you ski. I'm not one to judge that. It becomes an issue when people's view of themselves is not congruent with their skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lady_Salina 

 

I always carry a pack, It has food in one pocket and Old Boot's shoes in the other so it's easier for him to walk up the hill, when he has a yard sale...

Quote:

Originally Posted by lady_Salina 

 

 

 

Hey Rio, Wow, Those Mythics sound mountainous.  What exactly do you use the 88cm Mythic Riders for?  The tube run standing up?  Are they good in trees, kind of like bumpers cars only bumper skis off the trees?  They sound bigger then the tree wells, so they probably prevent landing in those too.  I bet when you jump they fly well too, kind of like your own mini airplane on your feet.

WOW... you are welcome at TGR any day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by karpiel 

Sorry, I think I just offended half the people on this site.

And everyone at Wilmot.

+ 1  karpiel

This is really humorous for me. Its been almost 30 years since I skiied powder in the West. I never skiied it in anything wider than a pair of 210 cm long GS skis which were probably narrower than what today's "good" skiers feel is necessary. When you skied the deep back then you were IN the snow, unless you were one of those people sitting way in the back seat porpoising their turns frenetically. The longer skis provided decent flotation, especially at speed. I'll never forget the first time, in the early 70's when some of the locals at Snow Basin took us out in what they referred to as "snorkel snow". I had never skied in snow that deep or that light and the sensation of cold snow in the face was strange and delightful. The days before techical innovation opened powder up to the inept were an era in which the snow did not get all tracked up right away. At ritzy resorts like Aspen places like Gentlemen's Ridge remain largely untracked for quite some time while the rich turkeys stayed on the groomers. The most their money could buy them was outfits that were more expensive and stupider than the rest of us. Ski instructors were endlessly occupied trying to cure their stem habit. Even as late as say 1981 or so at Jackson Hole places like the Hobacks offered lots of untracked for days. Back then the lament among the locals was that the main runs no longer remained powder for days after a storm. I recall watching some old videos in the basement of the Hostel X of skiing in the late 60's in which people were seen skiing powder days after the storm on runs that were now all moguled up within a few hours.

I don't know what to say to all this except to speculate that technical development has probably opened up the sport to a broader spectrum of people and abilities and helped to make the sport a viable business to the dismay of those of us who can scarcely afford it anymore.

This is my 44th ski season.  There have always been many wealthy people that decked themselves out in the best gear.  It is called pride.  They want to be beautiful.  It does not matter that they could not buy a turn.  Especially with old school gear, they would have skied better with more forgiving equipment.

Today, ski marketing is light years more aggressive than the past.  When I first found Epic, B5s and RX8s were the perfect all around skis.  4 years later, you could probably give them away.  I would bet that 99.99% of skiers could not tell the difference between 2004 gear and 2009 gear.

Which leads me to another point, many bears have quivers.  Why?  Buy one pair of skis and learn how to ski them.  That is what we did for 50 years.

Finally, remember it is the indian not the arrow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fischermh 

 

This is my 44th ski season.  There have always been many wealthy people that decked themselves out in the best gear.  It is called pride.  They want to be beautiful.  It does not matter that they could not buy a turn.  Especially with old school gear, they would have skied better with more forgiving equipment.

 

Today, ski marketing is light years more aggressive than the past.  When I first found Epic, B5s and RX8s were the perfect all around skis.  4 years later, you could probably give them away.  I would bet that 99.99% of skiers could not tell the difference between 2004 gear and 2009 gear.

 

Which leads me to another point, many bears have quivers.  Why?  Buy one pair of skis and learn how to ski them.  That is what we did for 50 years.

 

Finally, remember it is the indian not the arrow.

 The Indian has a quiver of arrows, because for even the best Indian one arrow is not enough when faced with multiple enemies.

(That almost works....)

almost but  I think the Indian arrow making facility only had one shape and size.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fischermh 

 

almost but  I think the Indian arrow making facility only had one shape and size.

That's exactly where I felt it fell apart.

But , the marketing firm has just come through with a new ad campaign, and the 2010 arrow will greatly improved! 

This year, the young warrior in the tent, who couldn't take the ear off the corn stalk in practice, will now be able to do it!  We have designed the arrow for everyone!  This arrow will make the greatest warrior pierce the Buffalo heart deeper then ever and the young brave that couldn't get out of the tee pee will now come along and shoot a straight arrow.  It will no longer be a worry that one of his arrows will stray and hit your lead horse, he will shoot straight and hit the buffalo also.  The unique vents on on this arrow tip guide the wind through and keep the course straighter then ever. 

Why use yesterday's arrow, this new one will take so much less energy, even for the expert, come try it out, you'll never look back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgcatching 

 

 

In the end, it is all about having fun.  What Nolo might be getting at is the 'tude associated with some people on fat skis; they can't buy a turn, yet since they have really long, wide skis, they must be better than everyone else...not dis-similar to the hipster crowd.  As they have more tattoos, smoke more Parliaments, drink more PBR, wear skinnier jeans, and wear a more fashionable kiffiyeh around their neck, they have no need to smile or say hi when pulling my espresso. Yet, put them on their "lifestyle" fixie with color coordinated chain and rims, and me on my ghetto fixie with drop bars and a front brake , and I would drop them within a block like a bad habit.   

It's funny you say that, I felt the only person with 'tude was nolo, sounds like everyone was having a great time aside from the person worrying about what everyone else was wearing, what they were skiing on and how they were skiing.

They might be trying to look "core", but they certainly aren't being elitist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolo 

 

When I was lucky enough to heli-ski, I didn't wear a pack and shovel unless I was the pack man. But I wore a transceiver and I learned how to use it. (Another question that will go begging: how many transceiver owners have done actual first-person snow safety training? Taken a class? Read a book?) I use the pack and shovel when I ski the ridge, as required. I ski Schlausman's with the transceiver, as required. Like the man says, they just want to find the body. I own a helmet, I have worn it, I didn't like it. Many of my friends wear helmets, many do not. My preference is to be able to avoid obstacles and other people and control my descent, than rely on armor to do the job. It's just a preference.

 

Don't get me started on the snowboarders who venture in over their heads and sideslip.

 

 

 

My preference is to not get in a wreck driving, but I still wear a seatbelt.

And snowboarders...

I'm honestly not sure if they think sideslipping is a legitimate way to get down a run or if they really are thinking "oh crap, what have I done, better sideslip down.

No matter the sport most people try to emulate the big names and fail miserably.

There's another reason to wear the BC pack (with shovel and probe) inbound. If the condition was right and you run into a buddie or two, you can go out of bound. Without the gear, you have to pass up the opportunity.

In JH during the gathering, Bob offered to take us out of bound, and he didn't think we need transceiver. I felt a bit stupid. I do own transceriver and had praticed how to use it. But I didn't have it with me that day! Because it hadn't snowed for a couple days, and I didn't "plan" to go out of bound! I went with him anyway since we were nowhere near anything that could slide. Still, not having transceiver with me does put additional limit on our route... On that day, it didn't matter since there were others who didn't have it either. But on a different day, it could make a difference.

I have no doubt there are some who carry it "just for show", or simply mis-informed. But for some, it may be they were carrying it just in case? Not in case it slides inbound, but in case they decide to go out of bound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by karpiel 

 

No matter the sport most people try to emulate the big names and fail miserably.

Does this mean if your not Michael Jordan you shouldn't play basketball?

It doesn't matter if your skis are 68mm or 115mm under foot, what matters is are you enjoying yourself.  Perhaps a few people have forgotten that skiing is all about enjoyment.  We all make judgements, we all are overly opinionated (I'm guilty) but it seems to me that from time to time we all forget that it doesn't matter what other skiers look like, what their skiing on, how old the outfit is, or any of that stuff.  The only thing that really matters about skiing is enjoying yourself. 

I know guys on fat skis who can't turn to save their lives.  I know guys on fat skis who can turn on a dime but don't want to.  I know people on skinny skis who can't turn. WHO CARES?  I even know (pause for effect) snowboarders!  How about this,  we all realize that everyone else on the mountain is there to have fun.  Let them have fun, if you stop worrying about the skis they have, you'll have more fun too.

Oh yeah, I have everything in my quiver from race stock skis (SL, GS, SG, & DH) to carvers, to mid-fats, to fat skis.  I use every single pair, and I can ski them all

Quote:

Originally Posted by fischermh 

 

This is my 44th ski season.  , many bears have quivers.  Why?  Buy one pair of skis and learn how to ski them.  That is what we did for 50 years.

 

 

What's this "we".  You've only been at it for 44 years.
 

With maturity and experience, you'll learn that a quiver of skis, while not necessary, is fun

Quote:

Originally Posted by karpiel 

 

 

 

My preference is to not get in a wreck driving, but I still wear a seatbelt.

 

And snowboarders...

 

I'm honestly not sure if they think sideslipping is a legitimate way to get down a run or if they really are thinking "oh crap, what have I done, better sideslip down.

 

 

No matter the sport most people try to emulate the big names and fail miserably.

You are so vain for wearing a seatbelt.... Real drivers don't wear seatbelts, they just use their superior driving skills to avoid all dangers.  I also don't have airbags in my car.........

Seriously, I'm still trying to rationalize the OP's assertion that wearing a helmet is a vain act.  What I found almost more disconcerting is the reason for her lack of use of a helmet.  Apparantley, all variables can be contolled, which makes the use of a helmet irrelevant.

Hey, I use a helmet, partly because you never know when a crazy mofo is going to fly out of a bush and take your azz out.  I put it on the ground periodically when moving at a high rate of speed and never know what may be lurking just below the surface.  Skiing is dangerous and I have kids.    

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jag 

 

 

 

Does this mean if your not Michael Jordan you shouldn't play basketball?

 

Holy complete lack of understanding batman!

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgcatching 

 

BTW, really wide skis are money when the conditions warrant.  They open up otherwise un-skiable terrain, and make terrain that is more work than fun (windpack, really heavy snow) very enjoyable.  

Can you show me an example of this otherwise unskiable terrain?  I'm having trouble imagining terrain that is unskiable on skinny old SG skis, that is skiable on fat skis. 

I don't doubt that they (fat skis, rockered skis, whatever) are enjoyable.  It is better to make tight SL turns on SL skis, and fast wide turns on SG turns, even though it is possible to make either with both.  I bet even the indian had a different arrow for birds and bigger beasts.