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Young Skier Fatal Accidents Seem to be Increasing, numbers? Teaching? Equipment? - Page 3

post #61 of 68

Thanks Ghost, looks like I'm getting an education here!  I will say I don't think I will ever be able to do again; what I have done for years without incident.  Lets hope others will read this stuff, and maybe learn the easy way.  I do like to play the devils advocate, because it seems to bring more people into the discussion.  I guess as I stated prior I will need to get a group of spotters if I'm ever going to enjoy Cliff Hanger again.  It would take at least four or five of them on this run depending on ones line because there is at least that many blind spots.  I guess I'm going to have to form a club!  Not sure how it's going to work, but it is a possibility! 

 

We have a insane park on Mt. Bachelor, yet I never see anyone "spotting" for anyone there.  People just wait until the person ahead has cleared the first or second feature.   Sure there are the photo takers, but there not spotting, they are listening to a count down to air so they will shoot the photo at the right time!  We have some awesome talent on Mt. Bachelor, so if you ever go there, don't stop where you can't be seen from above! :-)

 

PS I've never seen a on-line discussion stay exactly on topic.  Things drift a little.  Your point about entering a trail, run, piste is a very important point for all "younger" riders to know!   We have that problem at Mt Bachelor quite offten due to the layout.  I've seen the chopper haul more folks away because of USA #4 being broken than any other Responsibility Code.  But I don't know why we even need #4, because #1 & #2 seem to cover it.  Right?

post #62 of 68

Think of rule 4 as an aiding and abetting rule.  Rule 4 certainly makes following rule 1 a little easier, but I wouldn't count on other people obeying it. Just because someone breaks rule 4 doesn't mean you have the right to ignore  rule 1.  That doesn't mean rule 4 isn't useful.

 

In the case of your mishap, it required two rule infractions.  A lot of accidents are avoided by only one person making a mistake while the other person doesn't.  It often takes two people to err at the same time to cause an "accident".  A redundant safety factor is still a good thing even if it is redundant.  Don't rely on the other guy to save your a$$.

 

post #63 of 68

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

The only way to do that is to be sure there is noone there: closed race course (still might be someone there.....

 


Yep, even on a closed race course there's a risk of someone falling in a blind area (Ghost, you're probably familiar with Rabbits & Starting Gate for a couple of local examples).  We use radio communications & a coach on top of the drop to monitor the track so that our athletes can race safely. 
 

post #64 of 68

Formatting disaster,  reposting below

post #65 of 68

 

Jaques, thanks again for sharing the story.  We understand that you felt the need to pass on the fact that bad things can happen when people stop in blind spots in the middle of a marked trail. Initially, it came across as you were attempting to claim you actions were justified because the others chose a very poor place to stop.  But, I think we all know and agree at this point that all parties could have taken action or altered some anti ski code behavior that could have avoided the incident.  I'm truly sorry that you and the others got injured, but everyone involved learned how to prevent this.  And, sharing your story  reminds everyone that these things happen so be careful out there.  Expect the unexpected.

 

post #66 of 68

Ghost, thanks again for the reply.  Where I ski, if you enter a trail (groomed run) from the side, and come out in front of a skier on that run, and you collide, the person coming from the off trail area will be deemed to be at fault.  USA code #4 is very important!  I'm glad you shared your story too!

 

mogulmuncher,  At Mt. Bachelor there is always course monitors, and the run will be totally closed to public when a race is ongoing.  There are places where the public must cross the course, and at those places, there will be a traffic guard with a stop sign, and warning signs prior.  Racing is very safe at Mt. Bachelor.

 

crgildart, I guess in a way, I don't want to feel responsible, because they stopped where they were not visible from above.  I know if I had not aired out over the blind spot, it never would have happened.  If I had been going slower, or stopped there, as I often do, I would have told those folks, in a nice way, that they might get killed there!  In all seriousness I believe the first four USA Codes are paramount.  It seem that where I ski, that #3 and #4, when broken causes a accident, that the patrol leans toward the skier going down the trail.  They know that someone might be going really fast, but they don't really look at that when it comes to #3 & #4 being broken.  They are fully aware that people can ski fast, and be in control, as long as they can see the people ahead.  Anyone who comes to Mt. Bachelor be warned, they do not put up with people who break #4 no matter how fast the other party might be skiing down the trail!

 

Bottom line for me is, from now on I will be too frightened to "do it" again without a spotter.  By the way, when I have done this prior, (countless times) I always watch from the top for anyone who may have gone ahead of me. Just like the rules in our Terrain Parks.  On my fateful day, nobody went over for the two minutes or so that I had been watching.  I thought I was totally safe!  Well it goes to show that people will stop in the worst possible place, and just hang out!

 

Thanks to all who have argued the points.  Although the "rules" are simple, different people will view them in different ways.  I think we should all need a licence to ski, just like driving!  If we all had to pass a test first, it might make for a safer experience for all.

 

I hope that a lot of people will read all this. 

post #67 of 68
Hi, I am sorry you have PTST.  I will keep you in my prayers (for a couple of days at least) that you recover!
Previously you said that you couldnt avoid the kid because you were "in the air".  Well if you are not %100 sure that you cannot stop, whether it is due to speed, being "in the air", or whatever you should not due whatever it is that makes it so you dont hit someone downhill from you.  If you decide to do air in blind spots, it is your bad if something goes wrong, like someone not knowing it is a blind spot. 
I really do hope you get well, and can continue to have fun skiing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post

Matthias99, I'm not sure I see the contradiction.  When people stop where they can be seen from above, it not a problem.  The fact that I have considered myself a "nice guy" was just to let people know it can happen to the nicest people, who mean well. 

 

OK, most of you feel I should not ever fly over a blind spot.  I feel people should not stop there. 

 

I wrote the story because the adults in the group who chose to stop where they could not be seen from above, is the reason I hit the child.  Parents need to be responsible for their children's safety.

 

It seems that since #1 and #2 cover it, why not just end the code there! 

 

It was said by someone above that #3 was only written only because of those who break #1 & #2 

 

I'm having a hard time with this whole thing.  To me it's kinda like the freeway.  Emergency parking only.  One can not just stop in the lanes of traffic to take in the view!  Of course there aren't a lot of blind spots on most Freeways.

 

Anyway we all know that there may be a fallen person below.  What I'm saying is there is no excuse for stopping where you are not visible from above.  If you do, you must clear the area as soon as you can. If you just stop where you can't be seen from above, it's like slamming on your brakes to have someone rear end you, just for the insurance claim.  Lets not get all technical about that one.  Scamsters have been doing it for years.  Of course if you follow too close, you are just asking for it!

 

Thanks again for the feed back.  Looks like we only need #1 & #2 of the USA Skier Responsibility Code!  Lets just throw out the rest, especially #3 

post #68 of 68
Hi, I have read some more posts, and hope I am not "piling on", but the fact that people will due the unexpected is exactly why you cant do it.  You can't expect everyone to know that a particuliar area is a blind spot that people jump off of.
Anyways I posted this to comment on the car analogy.  It is your responsibility to stay safely behind the car in front of you.  Does that mean if I slam on my breaks for no reason and you hit me that I will have zero liability?  No, but the person behind me has to still stay a safe distance back from me.  Of course they dont have to stay like 10 seconds behind me in case I decide to step on my breaks, but what if they slam on their breaks because a child runs in front of them?  Or a moose?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post

Ghost, thanks again for the reply.  Where I ski, if you enter a trail (groomed run) from the side, and come out in front of a skier on that run, and you collide, the person coming from the off trail area will be deemed to be at fault.  USA code #4 is very important!  I'm glad you shared your story too!

 

mogulmuncher,  At Mt. Bachelor there is always course monitors, and the run will be totally closed to public when a race is ongoing.  There are places where the public must cross the course, and at those places, there will be a traffic guard with a stop sign, and warning signs prior.  Racing is very safe at Mt. Bachelor.

 

crgildart, I guess in a way, I don't want to feel responsible, because they stopped where they were not visible from above.  I know if I had not aired out over the blind spot, it never would have happened.  If I had been going slower, or stopped there, as I often do, I would have told those folks, in a nice way, that they might get killed there!  In all seriousness I believe the first four USA Codes are paramount.  It seem that where I ski, that #3 and #4, when broken causes a accident, that the patrol leans toward the skier going down the trail.  They know that someone might be going really fast, but they don't really look at that when it comes to #3 & #4 being broken.  They are fully aware that people can ski fast, and be in control, as long as they can see the people ahead.  Anyone who comes to Mt. Bachelor be warned, they do not put up with people who break #4 no matter how fast the other party might be skiing down the trail!

 

Bottom line for me is, from now on I will be too frightened to "do it" again without a spotter.  By the way, when I have done this prior, (countless times) I always watch from the top for anyone who may have gone ahead of me. Just like the rules in our Terrain Parks.  On my fateful day, nobody went over for the two minutes or so that I had been watching.  I thought I was totally safe!  Well it goes to show that people will stop in the worst possible place, and just hang out!

 

Thanks to all who have argued the points.  Although the "rules" are simple, different people will view them in different ways.  I think we should all need a licence to ski, just like driving!  If we all had to pass a test first, it might make for a safer experience for all.

 

I hope that a lot of people will read all this. 

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