or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Roll your eyes

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Another thread got me wondering. So instructors, tell the truth: when non-instructors give technique advice here, do you automatically : ?

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 09, 2002 10:39 AM: Message edited 1 time, by milesb ]</font>
post #2 of 20
Sometimes, but if the advice is not detrimental there is no eye rolling by me, though at times I shake my head at a wrong diagnosis even though the answer may be correct for that perceived diagnosis [img]smile.gif[/img]

post #3 of 20
I'm always looking for another idea or another way of expressing something differently so someone who can't understand what I've suggested might be more able to do so.

So, to answer your question, I only "roll 'em" when there is an obvious inaccuracy, but I usually still will look for useful terminology.
post #4 of 20
Ott, your response implies that you care to read what non-instructors have to say, whereas milesb automatically proceeds to :.
post #5 of 20
Nope, not at all. If I were to roll my eyes, it would be based only on the content of a statement. I only care about what is said, not who said it.

If a recreational skier gets it right, and an instructor is off base -- I would roll my eyes at the instructor.

Of course since we are all still learning and exploring, and so an eye roll is generally more of an expression of personal ego than anything else . . . and not too constructive!
post #6 of 20
Oh, my turn to take the high road. There is no right and wrong way to ski. There is only less efficient ways to accomplish the same thing. I don't roll my eyes at advice, I roll my eyes at the way some people read into other peoples post things that clearly aren't there. :
Oh yeah, I am not refering to anyones post in this thread.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 09, 2002 03:10 PM: Message edited 1 time, by Pierre eh! ]</font>
post #7 of 20
Roll on . . . I mean, everybody must roll their eyes at some of the stuff posted in the various forums (not necessarily the instructional threads). That part of what makes epicski fun.
More seriously, I am a student, not an instructor, but anybody trying to teach a physical skill or diagnose a physical condition quickly learns that people use the oddest analogies to communicate physical feelings, some effectly and sometimes not. I once told an instuctor trying to teach me to carve that I was rolling my ankle, and a brief discussion made it pretty clear that my boots were a size to big (subsequently confirmed by a bootfitter).
So, even a student's bad analogy can lead to a useful tip, at least if it involves rolling some part of the anatomy.
post #8 of 20
Not at all. Most often my response to instructing posts is to just "listen". Many written ski instruction posts require some thought & hill time to digest the intent of the post.

If a post is badly wrong and does not invoke thought on my part I usually let the more literal and locally experienced instructor forum members post a reply.

Sometimes I appear to "change sides" in a debate but this is not my intent but rather a need to hear more of conflicting arguments and explore the history of the conflict.

There is one poster I no longer read or respond to. Seems that with me being a "cementhead" I am not intelligent enough to digest the intent of that persons posts. After a while some people (very few) just become a WAFTAM.

post #9 of 20
>>>Ott, your response implies that you care to read what non-instructors have to say, whereas milesb automatically proceeds to : .<<<

Eug, instructor types can actually learn from finding out what the problems are out there with skiers by reading comments from students who think they know (and often do) how to correct a questioner's problems.

It tells us what is going on in skiers minds.

And I don't think that milesb automatically proceeds to rolling HIS eyes, it was just his question, asked because he is a prolific advice giver, I presume

post #10 of 20
Well, Ott, you just read my mind! I was going to say that the better instructors probably will make a note of what student's incorrect perceptions are, and keep them in mind when they teach!
post #11 of 20
Uh, Oh! I never thought of that. I so want to be an instructor again that I never thought my comments might be stepping on the toes of masters. BTW, were those toes or egoesssssssssss. :

A thousand eye rolls have rolled right on by without a single glance by the blinded PinHed. What a PinHed!!! [img]redface.gif[/img] [img]redface.gif[/img] [img]redface.gif[/img] [img]redface.gif[/img]
post #12 of 20
Thread Starter 
That is correct, Ott. I would be the rollEE rather than the rollER.
post #13 of 20
Miles, your advice to skiers is appreciated, I'm sure, and if it is way off, someone will jump in and keep you from going off the far edge, so to speak. [img]smile.gif[/img]

But if you are in daubt or think that your advice is questionable it is wise to either not post it or label it as your opinion.
You'd be surprised if you knew how often I refrained from correcting someones post because even though I knew it was wrong, I didn't have the right answer myself.

Telling someone not to do something without offering an alternative of how to do it right is not very constructive, I think.


Edited for spelling and to ask what other thread made you ask the question?

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 10, 2002 10:35 AM: Message edited 1 time, by Ott Gangl ]</font>
post #14 of 20
Thread Starter 
See gonzostrike's post.
Ott ,I'm certain that when I give advice here, it helps ME more than anyone else. And that's really why I do it.
post #15 of 20
Oops, just made a complete a$$ of myself. Sorry milesb.
post #16 of 20
Oh my, I wish I hadn't read that thread. So much over-analyzing going on.

To ski is just to dance on a slippery surface. An individual expressing himself in movement. One can always become a better dancer but rarely by analyzing which arm or foot to move first and in what direction.

I think that a skier uses the movement that he intends the future turn to be while initiating and almost imediatly makes corrective movements, small and subconcious as they may be, reacting to terrain, balance problems, intended radius of the turn, setup for the next turn, etc. etc..

This is not saying one cannot just initiate a turn and ride around to see what happens, but that is not dynamic skiing to which we apire.

I think. [img]smile.gif[/img] ...Ott
post #17 of 20
Some comments on this thread:

1) While instructor/non-instructor is perhaps the most obvious categorization to consider, there are clearly many non-instructors in skiing who are more knowledgable than some instructors (not necessarily many who participate here). I think this may be true to somewhat of a greater extent in skiing than in other sports??

2) The one thing instructors clearly have more of is experience. I most enjoy being able to learn through description of such experience, especially when it is initially related in a way that doesn't include any pre-judgement.

3) The thing I roll my eyes at most is the display of ego that is present in many posts. Whether it is up-front and loud or implicit in a long post styled in what I might call the "complete word" characterization. Note: I readily admit that I am not immune to this myself. I just hope I can always admit it if such ego is called out by others - I don't think it's a positive or useful attribute.

4) Most posts that really seem out of kilter I ignor in the confidence that so many of the passionate instructors here (and others) can not bear to let any substantial degree of misguidance remain without a response to clarify or correct

5) One must be very careful to try and not pre-judge. What initially may seem like a foolish post may turn out to be instead contraversial (and useful), novel, or unique.
post #18 of 20
>>>Oops, just made a complete a$$ of myself.<<<

You did not. ...Ott
post #19 of 20
Truth be told, Miles, I find myself rolling my eyes a whole lot! But like Todd, it has nothing to do with "who" said something, and everything to do with what is said. It also has something to do with the tone of the post. Like most instructors, I have nearly infinite patience, tolerance, and respect for skiers of all levels, as long as they keep an open, inquiring, "beginner's mind" and actively seek learning! Instructor or "lay-skier," as soon as someone claims to know "the answer" I become quite suspect, especially when they cannot, or will not, back up their points of view with facts or sound argument.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
-- Andre Gide

I have tried, always, here at EpicSki and elsewhere, to present unbiased facts and to back up any "opinions" with my objective reasons for having them. I would not expect anyone to believe anything I said just because I said it, but I'll can often try to point out a few facts, and you can draw your own conclusions!

I learn more about the sport of skiing, and the teaching of it, every day, sometimes from "experts," sometimes from novices, and sometimes by own explorations.

There are many, many mistruths, myths, false kernels of "conventional wisdom," half truths, and legitimate differences of opinion regarding good ski technique. I'll read anything, think about it, and if I think there is more to the story, or something missed, or something blatantly wrong, I'll certainly reply, no matter who said it. I don't profess to have any more claim to the "Truth" than anyone else, but I do have a bit more experience under my belt than many others. Like many instructors here, I've been around the block a few times

What does make me "roll my eyes" is the person who has little knowledge or experience, but claims to "know it all." We all roll our eyes when we recognize an ignorant "know-it-all" don't we? A little knowledge CAN be dangerous thing. Even there, if they know so little that they actually think they're infallible, I can deal with it. But when someone says something that they cannot back up with facts, experience, or sound argument, they can expect at LEAST a little eye-rolling--and some correcting, if the facts warrant it! Those who cling to their beliefs in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence get little respect, and lots of eye-rolling!

Yeah, I roll my eyes bit--I'll admit it! But I believe I've shown a willingness to discuss just about anything!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #20 of 20
Something just occured to me. If most of the posts here were "roll eyes worthy", I'd doubt that some of the high quality instructors would be posting here!

My first introduction to the internet was on the fitness boards of ivillage. After being whined at for dispelling some common fitness myths, I decided not to post there.

I hope you folks who share your expertise so generously realize how much we appreciate you!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching