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quick review: 2010 Salomon Shogun 182

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

me, 6ft, 165, ski at slower to moderate speeds, at squaw valley, ski groomers only to get to the lift after skiing natural snow, ski lots of squaw type bumps (large, rounded, not short, choppy), steeps, crud, whatever nature serves up w/ an order of wind, sun and precip...

level 8/9 skier (psia scale),

 

terrain, chute 75 squaw, a couple ice turns up top, wonderful wind deposited fluff in the middle, bigger bumps in the bottom, and  some leftover avalanche debris chunks in the center, rain layer ice on the flanks.

 

ski, 182, 131-101-118 or so, 3.5cm of slight rocker tip

 

So,

I haven't really been a salomon fan for quite awhile. liked the xscream, then didn't ski a salomon that worked well for me until 2 weeks ago, i took 2 runs on a  175 gun from a few years ago, (mounted 2cm back). I think i went away from salomon mainly because they were mounted too far forward since they became the company of spinsters.

 

I was skiing my watea 94, w/ EricD and the Solly Rep, Chris, and swithced out to the new shogun w/ the rep for a couple runs,

i wanted to buy it. i am tough on different skis and often take an adjustment period,

but this one felt good after a few turns and only got better.

 

turn shape was versatile, would ride the arc, or let you shape the turn into longer or shorter skids. was quite happy being pushed to a hard edgeset. had the light lively feel of the watea, but a bit more damp and nice flex in the forebody. held well on the icy flanks, and was quicker the most 101 skis I've skied.

 

i didn't notice the rocker tip, and it didn't flutter going fast on the way back to the lift on fast groomer access trails.

 

All in all, a new turn for salomon and I'd like to own one. but not avail until next fall... bummer.

 

cheers,

 

Holiday


Edited by Holiday - 2/28/2009 at 04:16 am
post #2 of 19

interesting ski, I think there are going to be a few very interesting partials out next season

post #3 of 19

Wood core with bamboo and basalt is very interesting, and the dims are nice too with slight rocker may make this a killer ski for soft snow.  Holidays impressions are held with high value as well 

post #4 of 19

OK, now you've got me interested. Assume the dampness is the, ah, rock. So could anyone out there explain to an idiot non-materials guy how it works? Yes, I know it's been done before, just never paid attention. And I get that rock will absorb vibrations, bear loads, and stiffen most anything. Fine material for old bridges or statues or facades of failed banks. I even assume rock, like anything else on earth, can bend if subjected to sufficient force. But I also recall it likes to crack when bent, as opposed to compressed.

 

So I do not get how basalt can flex enough to end up in a ski. I mean, even syn+rock countertops crack if you don't support them right. Ok, so say it's a bit of fine dust added to a plastic matrix. Uh, isn't this stretching any reasonable definition of "basalt?"  Or am I totally off and this is some super thin slice of pure molecular basalt doo-dah that flexes like putty?

 

What really painfully obvious point am I missing here?  

post #5 of 19
Thread Starter 

i have to admit, beyond, I didn't think about materials too much, except that it isn't a foam/composite core salomon that we've learned to hate. it has a wood feel, although i don't know what bamboo should feel like. first impression was that is was solid for the feeling of lightness, like the watea. similiar construction idea, i hear, take a good wood core, add stringers (carbon i beam in fisher, basalt rock like but w/ some sort of resiliancy i hope) and give it that just right flex, an voila, a ski for real skiers, not guys dropping 50 feet and running it out at 50 plus all the time...

 

compared to watea, more damp, the way i have my wateas tuned at the moment, more playful and accepting of cheating turn shape.

I must admit, that as I skied this amazing windblown, winddeposit, windbuff day, w/ the squaw icons like Eric D, Sollie rep, Chris (who rips), Tom Day, and others (not to be a name dropper), the boys were flying. it was a day for covering ground quickly, like 4 turns total on the face of headwall since it was just freakin' smooth from the wind love, anyway. with my propensity not ski that fast, i was working to keep up and I was wishing my wateas were a big longer and a bit straighter that day, and the sollies were a bit longer and a bit straigher, so they fit the bill i had conjured up in my mind...

but i digress,

 

the rocker was minimal, to the point that I don't even know if I felt it, except for the feeling that the radius seems steeper then the dems led me to believe, so slightly shorter use of those dems...?

 

what also surprised me was how playful it was for a 101 waisted ski, that had a very racy tune on it (so said the rep, and so I felt on the really hard snow, and railing fast carves back to the lift. so many of these skis that do what we need them to do in tougher conditions, are just not playful, but a bit too tuetonic in their nature (i admit, i'm not sure what that means, but i'm thinking stauch non flexible germanic stock :) )

i like a little french flair, i guess...

 

Cheers,

holiday

post #6 of 19

Damper carvier Watea without Germanic seriousness, huh? This is sounding fairly amazing. I may have to go contemplate a piece of basalt...Until I can demo.  

post #7 of 19

Cool, I hope you found a  ski that works!  It will be interesting to see a head to head on this vs. the Watea 101 when you get that mounted up.  The Shogun doesn't have much of a tip rocker:  like you said, hard to notice in the soft stuff, but probably useful in windpack when you might otherwise bury the tip, and being that you have a (or are getting another) firmer snow ski, probably a moot point in other less rocker-friendly conditions.  It defintely sounds more versatile than the Czar (which has 2x the length on the rocker), which felt pretty lousy in the semi-hardpack old crud, and soft bumps that I skied it in.  Looking forward to trying the Shogun in a few weeks!  

post #8 of 19
Quote:

What really painfully obvious point am I missing here?  

 

That point would be that a fair bit of "materials magic" comes from various companies marketing departments rather than R&D.

 

However, the Shogun is a very good ski and I'm bringing a few Salomons in next year largely due to this ski and the Czar (IMO one of the best "consumer" powder skis extant).

 

Within a week or so, I will have the full fleet of '10 Fischer demos available too. The 101 is worth a comparison. When I skied the Shogun, I thought it was a little bit overtuned and that skews the comparison a bit for me. Both were really good in the soft and semi cruddy shin deep at Mammoth a few weeks back.

 

SJ

post #9 of 19

Anyone have any addtional comments/reviews on the Shogun?

post #10 of 19
Skied it indoors last night for a few runs at a Salomon Demo.

Impressions - Light and fairly nimble even with a demo binding.  Rocker not really noticeable (especially compared to spyderjon's Lhasa Pow that he was skiing)  Fairly confidence inspiring in the chop and soft bumps that tend to form.  Didn't have the space to charge on it so can't comment on flapability.
post #11 of 19
I agree with your point on the wide-spread marketing influences in ski design but I'd hesitate to stamp that logo on the Shogun.  I was involved with the development of this ski from idea-to-production and I can wholeheartedly say that we tested many many different material inlays in the Shogun footprint and easily came to a group consensus that the wood/bamboo/basalt system worked the best.
But what I said is probably redundant to you sierrajim because obviously you brought that ski in to your shop.

As far as the 'basalt mental conundrum' Beyond, think of it a more as a fabric like sheet that is laid up in the ski as opposed to a flattened piece of rock.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basalt_fiber

Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

 

That point would be that a fair bit of "materials magic" comes from various companies marketing departments rather than R&D.

 

However, the Shogun is a very good ski and I'm bringing a few Salomons in next year largely due to this ski and the Czar (IMO one of the best "consumer" powder skis extant).

 

Within a week or so, I will have the full fleet of '10 Fischer demos available too. The 101 is worth a comparison. When I skied the Shogun, I thought it was a little bit overtuned and that skews the comparison a bit for me. Both were really good in the soft and semi cruddy shin deep at Mammoth a few weeks back.

 

SJ

post #12 of 19
 Ok, so it's Basalt Fiber.  The fiber part is important for sure.  Reading wikipdia makes it sound like a good thing but we (general consumers ... or even well informed ones on epic) aren't used to hearing "Basalt" and automatically throwing on "fiber" at the end like we are with Glass or Carbon.  I'd think Salomon could make that a little clearer just for the heck of it.  I'm pretty similar to sierrajim in thinking that if it doesn't make sense, it's probably just marketing speak.  Thanks for clearing that little confusion up.
post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctownsend View Post


But what I said is probably redundant to you sierrajim because obviously you brought that ski in to your shop.

 


 

Indeed so.

In fairness to Salomon, I am generally unimpressed by cores made from special trees, proprietary fibers, dampening devices and other similar stuff. All I care about is how the ski works and to whom I will sell it(and why).

The Shogun works very well so the materials combination as applied is apparently a good one. Whether the same effect could have been achieved with Carbon Fiber, Spectra, Twaron, Hemp, or any other miracle material is a moot point.

SJ
post #14 of 19
Would think ganja would be a good substitute for the core...

Could smoke it if you hated your ski...on the lift too...one of my sons would buy it for sure...
post #15 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctownsend View Post

I agree with your point on the wide-spread marketing influences in ski design but I'd hesitate to stamp that logo on the Shogun.  I was involved with the development of this ski from idea-to-production and I can wholeheartedly say that we tested many many different material inlays in the Shogun footprint and easily came to a group consensus that the wood/bamboo/basalt system worked the best.
But what I said is probably redundant to you sierrajim because obviously you brought that ski in to your shop.

As far as the 'basalt mental conundrum' Beyond, think of it a more as a fabric like sheet that is laid up in the ski as opposed to a flattened piece of rock.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basalt_fiber

 



 
Thanks for the clarification ctownsend.
I think 2 things may be in order here, if your the c townsend I've met,

first, this place is big on full disclosure, and I'm pretty sure you ski for Salomon,
and
second, young Mr. Townsend is a top level ripper, folks.
it's good to have feedback from that level around here as well!

I'm pretty sure I've skied w/ you briefly w/ my friend GHjelte (when you were a grom) and watched you in the squaw comp last year.

Takes nothing away from the ski, as I said, 1st Solly I've loved in quite some time. this one is sweet.

Cheers,
Holiday
post #16 of 19
no cody?
post #17 of 19
Yes, in full disclosurethis is Cody Townsend a skier for Salomon.  Thanks for the kind words Holiday.

  A main reason I added feedback into this thread was because I was heavily involved in the design and testing process of this ski.  Just wanted to get some of the inside word out.  It's actually a cool story of how a ski really gets built.  From the first inspiration to production.  Should probably tell that one some time...
post #18 of 19
 I'm bumping with the hope that you'll tell that story, Cody.  I know that it's probably not a high priority for you, but some background on the process with the Shogun would be great.
post #19 of 19
I'll probably throw it up on my blog sometime in the near future.  In the mean time yes, I've got some high priorities that involve big waves and skiing.  
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