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Need Ideas for Inside Foot Drills

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Boy do we have the snow down here in SW Colorado, YaHoo! I'm teaching a clinic next Wednesday and the focus will be the inside foot/leg so if any of you gurus have anything to input on this fascinating subject I will be glad to steal your stuff and use it for my own ( and my students ) benefit. Thanks!!! [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]
post #2 of 24
For the Feelers, three nifty drills to get that inside flopping foot like steel.
*Shuffling through the turns;
*1000 Steps; and
*White Pass turns.
Guaranteed to get results.
post #3 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by ant:
For the Feelers, three nifty drills to get that inside flopping foot like steel.
*Shuffling through the turns;
*1000 Steps; and
*White Pass turns.
Guaranteed to get results.
I know what these three drills are, but just what is the "shuffling through the turns" drill suppossed to accomplish? I've never seen the point of that one.

I definitely agree that the 1000-steps and White-Pass turn drills will trigger some breakthroughs. 1000-steps was re-introduced to me at the ETU; I spent some time practicing that one today and it finally "clicked". [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
post #4 of 24
I guess you could call shuffling a scaled down version of 1000 steps. It's more do-able on more terrain, including busy runs. It promotes slightly different moves, as the feet stay on the ground; more micro moves and small but quick balance-adjustments. Also, you can't cheat. 1000 steps can be done wrong, in a wedge-shape rather than a V-shape, while shuffling promotes the correct positive moves more easily.
Shuffling is several things, but it is probably more a rolling the inside foot exercise; 1000 feet is good for a whole range of needs.
post #5 of 24
Shuffling does about the same thing as Thousand Steps: Helps develop inclination for edge engagement.

I like what I call "Five Steps". From a traverse, make small, gradual FORWARD sidesteps uphill that result in a turn uphill. You can do this anywhere, but I like to start on a moderate slope that has a lot of relatively flat runout. This way I can traverse in both directions at gradually increasing downhill directions of traverse and then finish up with making the little steps downhill on the flats to form complete turns. The focus is on what happens to the pressures inside the downhill/outside boot during the step. It demonstrates how employing the inside foot can effect the outside ski.

Another I like is to make long radius turns and gradually move the inside knee farther inside to tighten up the turns.
post #6 of 24
A new twist on shuffling I was introduced to this season is shuffling only the outside ski. In many ways this brings home the point of shuffling and also requires strong mechanics of the inside leg. In reality shuffling only the outside ski through the latter two-thirds of the turn is relatively easy for a good skier. If you start shuffling the uphill ski before starting a turn and continue throughout the turn you must have pretty god dynamic balance and have very good inside leg action at turn initiation because you do not have the outside leg working for you. Similarly, in the two-leg shuffling drill neither leg is truly supporting you. It is through effective dynamic balance, core control and body flow that you accomplish effective turns while doing the shuffling drill.

Aar
post #7 of 24
Can someone please explain the "1000 turns" and "White Pass" drills? Thanks!
post #8 of 24
Want to get rid of a "lazy" inside ski ? Ski on one ski.
post #9 of 24
Biowolf,

I would like to respectfully point out one idea. Go out to your kitchen floor in a pair of socks. On two feet you can rotate your feet easily, call it a fulcrum turn or bracquage. The feet, tib/fibs, femurs will rotate under the pelvis quickly or slowly. It is the movement that creates pivot slips.

Now stand on one foot and attempt to turn the foot. It cannot be done sans hip or shoulder rotation. It will either take rotation or counter-rotation to turn the foot.

Having said all this, I see a lot of kids skiing on one ski and cringe when I think about the movements that will create in their hips and shoulders.

I have a drill I do to create inside foot steering that seems to work well. I have a student stand in a pure traverse. I ask the student to assume a balanced athletic stance. I then ask that they slowly tip their old outside new inside foot in the direction of their new turn to flatten/release the skis. This little bit of inversion leads to both skis tipping and the student begins to fall downhill. Imagine at this point in a space of about three yards they have turned 90 degrees and they are now slowly moving downhill with both skis pointing straight down the gravity line. I then have the student attempt to turn the same foot they tipped back uphill, turning the foot so rapidly that it ends up pointing straight back uphill and tha outside ski is perpendicular, again on a traverse. To restate, the inside foot has finished pointing uphill and the outside leg is at a 90 degree angle on a traverse, and the skier is again stopped.

That may be too confusing a description however it is the ultimate in inside foot steering.
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by dawgcatching:
Can someone please explain the "1000 turns" and "White Pass" drills? Thanks!
White Pass turns are simply inside-ski-only turns. i.e., to turn left, you pick your right ski off the ground and turn. Easier said then done. [img]smile.gif[/img] As Rusty Guy explained above, it is impossible to turn this way through a rotary movement to start the turn as you have nothing to push against. You're forced to do a cross-over and engage the new edges of your ski.

1000-step turns involve stepping from ski-to-ski as you work your way around the turn, so that at all times you only have one ski on the ground. Again, the only way to do it correctly is to perform cross-over down the hill to engage your new edges. However, it's pretty easy to cheat because you can easily step your skis into a stem and turn that way, so you really need somebody watching you.
post #11 of 24
Most upper level students and many instructors have the most trouble with a strong inside half in the last third of the turn. They either cut their turns short and remain more in the fall line, do a quick cross under or park n ride and have to resort to a lateral or vertical move to change edges. If you don't get back to neutral in the right position you can't possibly do a decent job of inside foot work in the top 2/3d's of the turn.

I introduce doriflexing the ankles, keeping the tips as even as possible and trying to ski back up hill as far as you can. You can coach and adjust technique to get higher, no banking allowed. Next is skiing a shallow arc slowly across the fall line and rolling up into neutral on very easy terrain. If done correctly the skis go from two rail road tracks to flat skis and the tips break downhill. If done poorly there will be a wobble in the tracks, a breaking into a wedge at neutral, a vertical movement, or the tails break downhill first. Great feedback to a student. Make sure you can do it first! Students seeing you do it fine yet they have problems hits home fast. You can add to this exercise by tipping the new inside foot after going flat with both skis.

Tracer turns is another good exercise for the entire turn. Tracer turns are skiing with 90% of the weight on one ski continueously while the other ski carries 10% of the weight and must remain on the snow. Tough to bank doing that and you must ski on both edges of the same ski back and forth across the fall line. Change feet often. This exercise is difficult from the back seat and adjustments by explaining how to find the front seat help a lot. [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 
Thanks, everyone!
post #13 of 24
[quote]Originally posted by KevinF:
Quote:
Originally posted by dawgcatching:
[qb]White Pass turns are simply inside-ski-only turns. i.e., to turn left, you pick your right ski off the ground and turn. Easier said then done.
As I understand it you have just described Royal Christies.

My understanding of Whitepass Turns is a turn started on the outside ski and switched to the inside ski in the middle of the turn (as the skis are pointed directly downhill). As mentioned in discussion of thousand step turns it is important to ensure no divergance or convergance of the skis is imparted during the transition or step from the outside to the inside ski.

Botyh Royal Christies and Whitepass Turns are very difficult to accomplish and require refined dynamic balance. Whitepass are a slightly higher level drill.

Aar
post #14 of 24
I like the following drill (not sure of the name, maybe someone can help).

Initiate the turn by picking up the inside ski, pointing the tip down into the snow and driving the inside knee out towards the turn.

Sure it's more of a knee/femur movement, but it really helps with steering the inside ski. A less aggressive drill is to point the femur of the inside leg to initiate the turn while firmly keeping the skis planted to the ground.
post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by Rusty Guy:
Biowolf,

I would like to respectfully point out one idea. Go out to your kitchen floor in a pair of socks. On two feet you can rotate your feet easily, call it a fulcrum turn or bracquage. The feet, tib/fibs, femurs will rotate under the pelvis quickly or slowly. It is the movement that creates pivot slips.

Now stand on one foot and attempt to turn the foot. It cannot be done sans hip or shoulder rotation. It will either take rotation or counter-rotation to turn the foot.

Having said all this, I see a lot of kids skiing on one ski and cringe when I think about the movements that will create in their hips and shoulders.
I hardly think comparing skiing 1 ski to standing on 1 foot in your kitchen is a realistic representation of what movements can be fostered through using skiing on one ski.

I would disregard what you feel in the kitchen. Try skiing on one ski by starting on super flat terrain and go through some balance drills before trying any turns. Then, before trying actual turns try some edge engagement/release maneuvers focusing on muscles inside the boot (foot/ankle)/ Then try some small directions cahnges in the fall-line (on the same flat terrain)

The reasons a lot of people turn their shoulders and such one one ski are the same reasons a lot of people do it on two skis.

a)not in blance (i.e. hips behind feet)
b)cannot or do not accomplish edge release before trying to turn.

Using skiing on one ski may not be a good entry level inside leg action drill, but a good one to develop the movement in people who have some aquisition of it.

It also can reveal a lot about skiers' alignment issues, both fore-aft & lateral.
post #16 of 24
The only way to turn on one ski other than just rolling edge to edge and using only the sidecut, is through some type of rotation or upper body movement. While one foot skiing is certainly a good thing to practice its probably not all that appropriate for building a strong inside half.
post #17 of 24
Aaron & Dog: White Pass turns are turns initiated on the inside ski (started on the old outside ski) with a fairly strong crossover of the body. The old inside (soon to be outside) ski gets engaged as the skis point downhill (down the fall line). The goal is to get the body well inside and the new outside ski edged and into the turn before it is weighted. This was the Mahre brothers' unofficial signature maneuver to emphasize aggressive body movement into a turn and pressure on the outside ski when it is most needed in the turn. It would be much like one of the tracer turns Pierre described being scrapped in mid turn in favor of suddenly applying the weight to the previously unweighted ski.
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by Kneale Brownson:
Aaron & Dog: White Pass turns are turns initiated on the inside ski (started on the old outside ski) with a fairly strong crossover of the body. The old inside (soon to be outside) ski gets engaged as the skis point downhill (down the fall line).
Kneale:

Thank you. I just had it backwards.

Aaron
post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by Pierre:
The only way to turn on one ski other than just rolling edge to edge and using only the sidecut, is through some type of rotation or upper body movement. While one foot skiing is certainly a good thing to practice its probably not all that appropriate for building a strong inside half.
I try to initiate the turn on the inside ski with a lot of forward pressure on the tip of the ski and let the tail slide out. The upper body action is minimal (but it is there) and the ski will turn.

I presonally find that 1000 steps is not all that effective. I prefer:

1) shuffling or raising the outside foot repeatedly during the turn while the inside foot remain engaged.
2) skiing on one ski or making turns on the inside ski

I have been practicing skiing on one ski since last year's ESA and now I have no problems linking turns on mild terrain.
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by Roto:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Rusty Guy:
[qb]Biowolf,

I would like to respectfully point out one idea. Go out to your kitchen floor in a pair of socks. On two feet you can rotate your feet easily, call it a fulcrum turn or bracquage. The feet, tib/fibs, femurs will rotate under the pelvis quickly or slowly. It is the movement that creates pivot slips.

Now stand on one foot and attempt to turn the foot. It cannot be done sans hip or shoulder rotation. It will either take rotation or counter-rotation to turn the foot.

Having said all this, I see a lot of kids skiing on one ski and cringe when I think about the movements that will create in their hips and shoulders.
I hardly think comparing skiing 1 ski to standing on 1 foot in your kitchen is a realistic representation of what movements can be fostered through using skiing on one ski.

I would disregard what you feel in the kitchen. </font>[/quote]OK....then try it in the bathroom if the kitchen doesn't work or on snow in a ski boot!

I respect your opinion and would encourage you to regard or disregard anything you care to.

I spend a good portion of every day trying to get inappropriate rotary movements via the shoulders/hips out of skiers movements. IMHO weighting and a stance foot as opposed to allowing pressure to build play a significant role in the issue. Skiers who learn to release via the inside foot and subsequently steer with the inside foot or leg seem to fair better in this regard than those who don't.

I just don't think skiing on one foot is the best way to ramp up inside foot steering and that seemed to be the topic at hand.....or rather foot.
post #21 of 24
My understanding of Whitepass Turns is a turn started on the outside ski and switched to the inside ski in the middle of the turn (as the skis are pointed directly downhill). As mentioned in discussion of thousand step turns it is important to ensure no divergance or convergance of the skis is imparted during the transition or step from the outside to the inside ski.

Aar[/QB][/quote]

So a White Pass turn is similiar to the move Von Grunigen wouldto make-turning on the inside ski (some would call it a weighted release?) and then putting his outside ski on the snow mid-turn? What is the purpose for this-he is the only racer I saw making it with regularity.
post #22 of 24
Dawg, the purpose is two-fold as I understand it.

First, to start a new turn on the ski that is doing most of the work at the end of the previous turn, you have to move the center of mass across that ski quite aggressively. So getting the body into the new turn is part of the goal of White Pass turns.

Second, in the days the Mahres were using this move to gain speed in a race course, the strong weighting of the new outside ski occurred when that ski was already in the fall line and really well edged because of the body position. That reduced the liklihood that the tail would skid uphill if the same weighting and body positioning occurred at the very beginning of the turn.
post #23 of 24
I've been looking for something to work on to keep up in the last 1/3 of the turn so your post really intrigues me. Can I ask some follow up questions...

Quote:
Originally posted by Pierre:
Most upper level students and many instructors have the most trouble with a strong inside half in the last third of the turn. They either cut their turns short and remain more in the fall line, do a quick cross under or park n ride and have to resort to a lateral or vertical move to change edges. If you don't get back to neutral in the right position you can't possibly do a decent job of inside foot work in the top 2/3d's of the turn.

I introduce doriflexing the ankles, keeping the tips as even as possible and trying to ski back up hill as far as you can. You can coach and adjust technique to get higher, no banking allowed.


You mean dorsiflexing, yes? That is, keeping ankle joint relatively closed, knees toward toes.

Next is skiing a shallow arc slowly across the fall line and rolling up into neutral on very easy terrain.

Can you be specific on the path here, should it be much like the path from the previous exercise, start moving somewhat downhill and across and end-up headed back up hill?

If done correctly the skis go from two rail road tracks to flat skis and the tips break downhill. If done poorly there will be a wobble in the tracks, a breaking into a wedge at neutral, a vertical movement, or the tails break downhill first. Great feedback to a student. Make sure you can do it first! Students seeing you do it fine yet they have problems hits home fast.

All makes sense to me.

You can add to this exercise by tipping the new inside foot after going flat with both skis.

At what point, heading back uphill, across hill, or somewhat down?

Tracer turns is another good exercise for the entire turn. Tracer turns are skiing with 90% of the weight on one ski continueously while the other ski carries 10% of the weight and must remain on the snow. Tough to bank doing that and you must ski on both edges of the same ski back and forth across the fall line. Change feet often. This exercise is difficult from the back seat and adjustments by explaining how to find the front seat help a lot. [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #24 of 24
Ken Koellner said:
Quote:
You mean dorsiflexing, yes? That is, keeping ankle joint relatively closed, knees toward toes.
Correct.

Quote:
>Next is skiing a shallow arc slowly across the fall line and rolling up into neutral on very easy terrain.<

Can you be specific on the path here, should it be much like the path from the previous exercise, start moving somewhat downhill and across and end-up headed back up hill?
What I meant was to simulate the end of one turn and the neutral point for the next. You would start off somewhat downhill in a shallow arc and end up just about across the fall line in neutral so the skis are ready to break downhill for the next turn. You need not go back uphill in this second part of the exercise.
Quote:
>You can add to this exercise by tipping the new inside foot after going flat with both skis.<

At what point, heading back uphill, across hill, or somewhat down?
From the neutral point to help initiate the new turn. The whole exercise is one of learning how to finish the turn and get back to neutral and begin initiating the new turn.
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