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skiding vs slipping

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

I know it sounds like an idiot asking question. The fact is I really don't know why there are two words for the same thing. Perhaps slipping is a subset of skidding? Thanks in advance for any contribution.

post #2 of 18

I've also heard the word "brushing" used to describe the same thing as skidding. It's just semantics (or marketing)

post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 

yes, great addition to stir the water further. :)

 

post #4 of 18

Slipping gives me the thought of letting pressure off the edge to promote a less agressive arc.

Skidding gives me the thought of the edge chattering across the top of the surface caused by the ski being under tuned or the inability of the skier to hold an edge on a harder surface.

So I think Slipping is a more passive move then skidding

Next....

post #5 of 18

To some people "Skid" denotes out of control sliding, because they first learned the word in connection with something like a car skidding off the road.  To other people skid is in control as in a four-wheel drift around a corner.

 

To avoid confusing the people who see "controlled skid" as an oymoron, we avoid the term skid when describing a turn that is controlled.

post #6 of 18

Out of curiosity, where do sliding & drifting fit in to other's definitions with skid & slip ?

 

Somehow I read or got it in my head that slipping and skidding were a bit directionaly different from each other ?

post #7 of 18

To me, slipping is intended to more intentional and skidding is more involuntary or is used to compensate for something else. For example, you have slipping a course, side slipping, etc. versus skid turns, skidding out/off, etc.

post #8 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911over View Post

 

Out of curiosity, where do sliding & drifting fit in to other's definitions with skid & slip ?

 

Excuse me! and where does float in the neutral fit in too? 

post #9 of 18

They're just words - they're not engineering terminology.

 

The observation that English has two words that mean, at least approximately, the same thing could scarcely be considered a breakthrough. Indeed, it takes work to come up with meanings that don't have at least two words for them in English.

 

My take is that the two words don't have dramatically different meanings, though they're typically applied to different situations and with different connotations. Another etymologyically close cousin (I think) to throw into the mix is "slide."

 

- You can "slip" (or, more commonly, "sideslip") down the hill. I don't know that I've ever heard this called "skidding."

 

- "Skid" has an inherently pejorative connotation, as noted above, and suggests something unintentional and uncontrolled. An old lady who loses control of her car skids ... a race-car driver slides his car in a tight turn.

 

- When people intentionally allow their skis to move sideways in a turn (which, notwithstanding what purists might tell you, people - including the very best skiers - do all the time), they tend to avoid the word "skid" in favor of formulations like of "feather," "brush," "redirection," "check," "drop" and the like.

 

- "Slip" can also has a more mildly pejorative connotation. Typically, when one slips on a banana peel there's an element of lack of control involved, or perhaps mere buffoonery. More generally, a "slip," as a noun, is a mistake, though it can also be underwear.

 

- "Slide" usually has a positive, intentional connotation, though not when you do it in the polls, or down a ski run on your back (with or without poles), or, for that matter, when snow or mud does it all on its own ... though perhaps that might be viewed as a positive event from the point of view of the snow or mud. I'm always a bit put off by the signs one sometimes sees on steep, firm ski runs that say, "Caution, Long Slides Possible." After all, when we're skiing, aren't long slides kind of the whole point?

post #10 of 18

Slipping

Sliding

Skidding

Steering

Drifting

Brushing

Feathering

Smearing

Scarving

Wind shield wiping

Pivotting

Stivotting

etc.

 

post #11 of 18

But not leaping or hiding, for some reason.

 

Little Richard on skis is something I would like to see.

post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat View Post

 

I've also heard the word "brushing" used to describe the same thing as skidding. It's just semantics (or marketing)

 

WTFH,

 

As Lewis Carrol wrote, "words mean what I want them to mean." So, to each his own. 

 

However, there's a sizable subcommunity of the skier population which uses the word brushing very differently from skidding ... you know who I'm talking about.  To us, brushing is a very precise, controlled movement.  It's often visually indistinguishable from a carve to an observer on the hill.  The only difference from a carve is that tip, tail, and everything in-between are displaced laterally uniformly by a very small amount per ski length of forward movement.  If tip or tail moves laterally more than the other, then it's a skidding not brushing.  If they move sideways enough that one ski track blends into the other, then that's more than brushing; it's skidding.

 

All,

In my own mind, skidding is usually a less-than-refined movement.  While slipping can also suggest the same, it is also used to describe a set of common edge control and fore-aft exercises requiring a high degree of control, including the pivot slips that Bob Barnes spent so much time clarifying in this forum a while back.

 

In skiing, as in so many technical fields, the first step is communication clearly with someone is first understanding the other tribe's jargon dialect.  Given the past several decades of terminological discord among skiers, we seem doomed to remain "separated by a common language."

post #13 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911over View Post

 

Out of curiosity, where do sliding & drifting fit in to other's definitions with skid & slip ?

 

Somehow I read or got it in my head that slipping and skidding were a bit directionaly different from each other ?


 

[Attempt to derive random similarity]

Got any experience with flying airplanes?  Sorta an aside, but that is one technical realm where the two terms are directionally different.  I'm not sure how to apply slipping, but skidding would be the situation where the nose (tips) want to come around the turn faster than the natural path of the aircraft (skis).  This causes the tail to wash out in both cases.  In the airplane, its a case of too much bank angle (similar to edge angle, I guess) without enough rudder steering to keep the aircraft aligned with the direction of flight.  It results in undesirable inefficiencies in the turn(and potential very bad juju).

 

Slipping is the opposite, where the nose is lagging behind the rest of the aircraft.  The only correlation I can think of would be if you were riding the tails and turn inside of where the tips are pointed.

[/Attempt to dervive random similarity]

 

An aside only, but that could be one place you are hearing of skidding and slipping as two distinctively different things.

 

I guess the analogy could imply that skidding is a result of too much edge pressure for the given edge angle and slipping is a result of too little.  Throw in gravity and the slipped situation results eventually in a side slip down the hill once your kinetic energy across the fall line is dissipated by the friction of the snow.

post #14 of 18

In defining ski/snow interaction with my students I will talk about the efficiencies or inefficiencies of how our skis turn and our movements which result in the ski/snow interaction. I define slipping as something which happens while steering a carved ski (not an arcing ski) and infers that there is some loss of edge grip with sideways slipping but that the ski is still following an arc with the tail following the path of the tip of the ski. This comes from a steering pivoted at the middle of the foot and is efficient in its effect .  Skidding however happens from a more forward pivot point and involves the tail following a wider track than the tip of the ski. This is the "moving the ski left to make a right turn" that Bob Barnes refers to and is a defensive inefficient movement with its several causes.

I think that this definition, although probably not in any dictionary, strives to create a platform for an understanding of how movements can create efficient or inefficient outcomes in our skiing as evidenced by our ski/snow interaction. 

post #15 of 18
Thread Starter 

i have an impression that defensive & offensive skiing pretty much explains the difference between the two?

post #16 of 18

slipping is desirable sliding (eg side slipping) controlled and smooth.

 

skidding is undesirable sliding, when grip conditions are intended.

 

kinda like you wouldn't say "you power-skid a car around a corner", you wouldn't say "you side-skid a run"

post #17 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by carver_hk View Post

 

i have an impression that defensive & offensive skiing pretty much explains the difference between the two?

You venture into annother gray area here carver_hk. I could for example argue that staying in balance is defensive. Tell me, who of the guys here are offensive/defensive .
 

post #18 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

 

You venture into annother gray area here carver_hk. I could for example argue that staying in balance is defensive. Tell me, who of the guys here are offensive/defensive .
 

Interesting though tdk6.
 

Actually what I feel is that skidding is more like being use in defensive skiing and slipping is more like being used in offensive skiing. I suppose you want to tell who is skiing offensive and who is skiing defensively? I m not good enough to tell. Perhaps you can make a list.

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