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post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 

I was just having fun and attempting to make more dynamic turns. Do you see any movement problems that will further delay my quest for the skills to ski arc to arc? Thanks in advance.

Chuck

 

post #2 of 21

You are aft all the time. Move forward through the transition. 

post #3 of 21

Indeed -- pull the feet back under you.

post #4 of 21

definitely aft!! wow.  Be careful out there!  You may need boot work that focuses on fore-aft issues.  Aside from that, as others have said, focus on staying forward.  Make sure your shins are on the tongues of your boot.  Pull your feet back.  Move your hips diagonally across through transition, etc..  These are all cues to help you stay forward, particularly during the transition which is where you have to setup fore balance.  If you miss that, its difficult to stay out of the backseat for the rest of the turn. 

post #5 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post

 

definitely aft!! wow.  Be careful out there!  You may need boot work that focuses on fore-aft issues.  Aside from that, as others have said, focus on staying forward.  Make sure your shins are on the tongues of your boot.  Pull your feet back.  Move your hips diagonally across through transition, etc..  These are all cues to help you stay forward, particularly during the transition which is where you have to setup fore balance.  If you miss that, its difficult to stay out of the backseat for the rest of the turn. 

Yes, I looked seriously aft. I tried to pull the feet back at transition, but clearly still need to work hard on that. My boots were Nordica Top Fuel. I didn't feel any pressure at the back of boot (against the calf), and am still surpised that I was actually that aft. Here is another clip at a slightly different angle. Do you see the same problem?
 

 

post #6 of 21

Chuck,

 

The make and model of your boots mean nothing.  You need to work with a qualified boot technician to make sure they are setup properly for your feet.  Some people require heel lifts, changes to forward lean, or other fore-aft related adjustments.  Due to my lack of dorsiflexion, my own boots have been straigtened a certain amount and 2mm heel lifts added.  What a world of difference it makes.  

 

Forget about the back cuff.  Do you feel like you are standing evenly on the complete base of your feet as you ski?   Or are you more on the toes, more on the heels?   Stand in your ski boots and lift your toes.  Do you feel a tripod like stance on the bottom of your foot with two points of the tripod being under the balls of your feet and one under the heel?  When  you flex your ankle and move into a forward stance with hips forward, do you still feel your heels?  

 

Fore/aft has a lot more to do with where your hips are relative to your feet than anything else.  Forget about the back cuff of your boot.  Where are your hips relative to your feet?  Right now they are behind your feet.  As you cross in transition, move your hips aggresively forward.  This can be through pulling your feet back sure, but in your case I would reccomend you put more concious effort into projecting your hips foward as you cross neutral.  Keep your hips in front of your feet.  Get your boots checked out.

 

post #7 of 21
Thread Starter 

BTS,

 

I think I am more on the heels. I feel, but had not paid much attention to it, that I am more on the heels with these Metron B5 than with my other skis. Is that possible or am I smoking something?

 

I will do the toes lift check tonight. If boots are the problem, they presumably can be fix more quickly than poor technique.

 

Thanks,

Chuck 

post #8 of 21

 There is undoubtedly some technique to fix too, don't worry.  ;-)

 

The shorter skis will also exaggerate fore-aft skiing deficiencies.

 

 

post #9 of 21

Chuck,

 

Here is one turn from the most recent video.  Note how far behind your feet that your hips are from top to bottom of the turn.  Frames 1 and 2 may not be avoidable because you are using an aggressive flex to release kind of turn (OLR), however during frames 3-4 is where you need to move your hips forward.

 

 

post #10 of 21

Here is the next turn, you can see it up close from a different angle.  Frames 2-end, note how far back your hips are behind your feet.  Pull back your feet better coming into frame 1 and project your hips forward frames 2-4

 

 

post #11 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post

 

Here is the next turn, you can see it up close from a different angle.  Frames 2-end, note how far back your hips are behind your feet.  Pull back your feet better coming into frame 1 and project your hips forward frames 2-4

 

 

 

I would wait on boot work.

 

Just remember kids

 

**** your turns dont **** them.

 

good luck trying to forget that.

 

honestly though slow your self down stand up and learn to keep your hips with your skis, come back with more video and then we can see whats need done from there.

 

FYI the fact you are on metrons is extra funny, get a SL skis that wont let you ski back like that.


Edited by Cirquerider - 2/24/2009 at 05:51 am


Edited by BushwackerinPA - 2/24/2009 at 12:03 pm
post #12 of 21
Thread Starter 

Thanks so much, BTS. Is projecting the hips forward (diagonally into the turn) the same as pulling the feet back? My impression from your earlier post is that they are different. The coach I learn from (actually his books and DVDs, haven't met the man yet) cautions strongly against pushing the stance leg. How do I project the hips forward without actively pushing the outside ski against the snow? (I must admit that I don't fully understand why OLE is bad)

 

Bushwacker - I just read that unforgettable directive in this forum a few days ago! It's great. Can you guys say that in your lessons without fearing the family-program police?

 

I don't get your comment about the Metrons. Are they not good for learning?

 

Chuck

post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckT View Post

 

Thanks so much, BTS. Is projecting the hips forward (diagonally into the turn) the same as pulling the feet back?

 

 

Yes and No. If you are in a turn, as in, not-in-transition, then your COM is settled onto one side or the other and you're carving your turns. Pulling your feet can be effective to avoid letting them drift too far foward, especially your inside foot. When you transition across, your COM is making a movement over and across from one side of your skis to the other. While that is happening, simply nudge your hips forward. The net result will be more of a diagonal movement across your skis. Yes you can pull your feet back while you do that, but I find it much more productive to think about moving your pelvis forward.

 

 My impression from your earlier post is that they are different. The coach I learn from (actually his books and DVDs, haven't met the man yet) cautions strongly against pushing the stance leg. How do I project the hips forward without actively pushing the outside ski against the snow?

 

You can push too hard and yes if you push too hard and at the right time then it can destroy your carve. However, consider that moving your pelvis forward does not actually involve pushing sideways on your skis. It involves flexing your ankles, unflexing your knees. If you stand statically, you can do some simple extensions while you stand there. Flex down and stand tall, over and over. Notice that your ankles UN-flex and your knees UN-FLEX. There is a strong downwards push when you do this. Now make more of a forward "projection" move. Flex down to your normal flexed down stance. How will you now "project"? You will not UN-flex your ankles this time. You will need to FLEX your ankles and UN-flex your knees.  The unflexing of your knees does not cause downward pressure, it causes forward movement of your hips.  Flexing your ankles like-wise does not cause downward pressure.   Extending or Projecting are slightly different things.  It is kind of like an extension movement, and you will feel like you're extending because you're unflexing your knee, but because you are increasing flex in your ankle(if its not already flexed), its more of a forward projection then an upward extension.

 

Now, we have talked about doing it diagonally and that is the part that you-know-who does not like.  Because if you project diagonally with too much of a sideways force, you could destroy the edge by pushing on it.  I would claim first of all that if the movement is more of a projection, from the knees, than an extension with a downward push and extension of the ankle, then this problem is reduced.  However, further to that, you don't actually need to push sideways at all to move diagonally.  When you transition, if you are releasing properly, then your COM is trying to move sideways anyway.  All you need to do is project forward as your COM topples across due to its own momentum, and that will create the diagonal movement.

 

In your case, focus simply on projecting your hips forward during transition.  Try to do it WITHOUT creating any downward or sideways pressure due to extension on your new outside leg.  Do it by projecting FORWARD, not UP.

 

 

post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 

BTS,

 

Great post. I think I got it. Much appreciated.

 

Chuck

post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckT View Post

 

Thanks so much, BTS. Is projecting the hips forward (diagonally into the turn) the same as pulling the feet back? My impression from your earlier post is that they are different. The coach I learn from (actually his books and DVDs, haven't met the man yet) cautions strongly against pushing the stance leg. How do I project the hips forward without actively pushing the outside ski against the snow? (I must admit that I don't fully understand why OLE is bad)

 

Bushwacker - I just read that unforgettable directive in this forum a few days ago! It's great. Can you guys say that in your lessons without fearing the family-program police?

 

I don't get your comment about the Metrons. Are they not good for learning?

 

Chuck

 

 

in a lesson thats age 17 plus umm yeah.

 

the more vivid and obsence a reference the more people will remember it.  Youd be surprised how many take that to heart and never ski backseat again.

 

The metrons can be great skis to learn more advance technique on, the issue is that they will let you ski aft though the entire turn and wont let you know that shouldnt be done.

 

projecting your hips forwards will not be 'pushing' against your outside foot. Your balance is there since your CA and CB is right. Since you know those terms Ill use them.

 

to get your COM from being aft I would try this. Do very gentle turns on very gentle terrain on your outside leg while you lift your inside heel(not you inside toe like the video). your focuses while doing this should be a constant movement of your Center of Mass fore to stay with your skis, keeping your inside tip on the ground, and making complete round turns with seperation between your hips and femur.

 

also cirque I am a ski coach, I want to get results. Sometimes being goofy, humble, and joking around get results much faster than being professional or getting respect. I am sorry people get offended, I am not sorry for posting it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #16 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post

In your case, focus simply on projecting your hips forward during transition.  Try to do it WITHOUT creating any downward or sideways pressure due to extension on your new outside leg.  Do it by projecting FORWARD, not UP.

ChuckT is learning PMTS. This means that during transition his knees will be flexed. Both of them. The feet pull back means that as the new outside foot extends it also needs to be pulled back in order for ChuckT to recenter his CoM over his base of support which is dominantly his outside leg. He will do this automatically but it will be more efficiant if he does it with an active pull back (both legs). Note, this is not at transition. This is after transition. For all I know.

post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckT View Post

 

I was just having fun and attempting to make more dynamic turns. Do you see any movement problems that will further delay my quest for the skills to ski arc to arc? Thanks in advance.

Chuck

 

You need to start at a very easy slope and practise running along your edges. Just tip your skis on edge and angulate and see what happens. Important is that the skis turn acording to their turn radius, your weight, slope pitch and speed and not by other means.
 

post #18 of 21

ChuckT is obviously learning from HH's books.  Chuck you are using upper body rotation into the turn as a means of tightening the turn instead of tipping the inside foot to a higher edge. What you are doing is traditional teaching method ie:(Self Taught).  This automatically pulls the upper body back and to the inside of the turn.  The Phantom move is designed to teach you how to stay in the front seat and ride a ski without rotating. .  There are many ways to do the Phantom move incorrectly so pay very close attention to the detail in the book.

post #19 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post

 

ChuckT is obviously learning from HH's books.  Chuck you are using upper body rotation into the turn as a means of tightening the turn instead of tipping the inside foot to a higher edge. What you are doing is traditional teaching method ie:(Self Taught).  This automatically pulls the upper body back and to the inside of the turn.  The Phantom move is designed to teach you how to stay in the front seat and ride a ski without rotating. .  There are many ways to do the Phantom move incorrectly so pay very close attention to the detail in the book.

Its also important not to lift the tip of the ski but the tail. If you lift the tip of the ski and leave the tail on snow "the wrong way" you will be pushing yourself into the back seat. Note, you cannot learn to ski without doing drills. Doing drills on your own is difficult and needs a special kind of devotion and mindset and remember that you could be doing the drills wrong. You need hands on coaching.
 

post #20 of 21

When you lift, ensure that the tail of the ski goes up, not the tip.  It's not the lifting of the tip that puts you back, the tip lifts because you are backseated.  You'll see then just how much you need to reposition the feet.

 

As for the metron allowing you to ski in the back seat -- it also allows you to ski in the front seat.

 

Don't worry about the ski.  It is not causing the problem.  It's not killing you for the mistake either, which is a very good thing.  The last thing you want is for the ski to harshly punish your mistakes.  You don't want a ski that will overwhelm your technique when you are learning.  You want a ski that you can try out your new moves without fear of being punished.  Since the metron lets you ski so very aft and get away with it,  it looks ok by me.  It will take some time for you to learn to stay forwards, so not being punished is a very good thing.

 

 

 

 

post #21 of 21
Thread Starter 

Guys - Thanks very much. I can't wait to go skiing again. Hopefully the snow here is still good for another month.

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