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Maplus kick wax----good goo

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

I really don’t like waxless skis. Sure they are simple and work in difficult conditions, but they are slow noisy and they remind me of condoms: function, but no feel. Give me a well waxed ski any day.


Unfortunately, there are conditions where grip wax is extremejy difficult to use…. no grip or no glide are the options

I have a nice set of new Maplus kick waxes from Alpinord and tried the first one today:



Skis: US Team hand-me down Atomic race skis. Soft for the World Cup skier, just right for me.

Snow: +2 C Partly sunny, last nights new snow on a old set track, beaten down to a glazed nightmare.


I had hoped to try the blue or violet, but it was just too warm. Snow like this is what they invented skating and fish scales for.

I had the Maplus Yellow (rated for +1-+4 Centigrade) wax and some fancy Swix VR 70 (also +1-+4, with fluoros and silver magnesium powder) I tried the Maplus in a thin short layer, and it was fast, but sure enough, when I hit the hills, it wouldn’t grip. I would have to smear it out the full length of the wax pocket, and I thought I already knew the result: Adequate grip, poor, glide with frequent tripping when the ski gripped.


I waxed one ski with the Swix ,one with the Maplus. Waxing with a wax for warm snow wax on the trail is difficult---like smearing salt water taffy on the ski, and trying to spread it to a nice smooth layer.

The Swix went on a bit smoother, so I expected to trip over the Maplus globs. To my surprise, the Maplus had far better glide. The difference was so big one could hear it in the hiss the ski made over the snow.

Climbing I thought the slow Swix wax would have more grip, but no, the Maplus had all the grip I needed. I was skiing like I had a limp, The Maplus was just plain better.


The Maplus yellow costs $5.24, the Swix VR-70 $19.95.

I can’t wait to try the others.

post #2 of 16

Good to hear. What were the lengths of the short and long grip zones? For smoothing, did you just cork it or use something else like a scraper?


It's definitely s a different ball game above freezing with gooey waxes versus harder stick waxes below. It can get messy, but encouraging to hear. I'm gonna have to try a patterned base ski on one foot and a grip waxed ski on the other to see how that goes.....

post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 

The skis I was on are powder flex with a long tapered wax pocket.  I have some klister skis with a short stiff abrupt wax pocket and I find they are real disciplinarians---if your weight shift is sloppy they won't grip.


These skis have some sharpie marks on them left over from their days on the world cup.  The measured wax pocket starts at the heel and runs to three marks at 8, 10 and 12 inches in front of the toepiece.  The most forward mark is well outside what you might call a wax pocket in that I can flatten the skis by hand to the second mark.


To get grip on the hard glazed snow I had to wax  full length to the forward mark.  I smeared the goop out with a cork using a sort of rotary twist.


Even with the taffy beyond the real wax pocket I passed a few skaters on a gradual descent (all my weight on the Maplus ski).  God only knows what they had on their skis.  My glide wax was just scraped storage parafin.   I never slipped climbing and went past fishscale skis like they were standing still.

post #4 of 16

With +2c and snow which turns to icy track, you can forget about anything but klister. And with proper technique of waxing, there is also third option... perfect kick and really good glide ;)

Based on this what you wrote, I would go with Swix KR60 klister, mixed with a bit of KR50. On top of that, I would add layer or two of VR60 hardwax. With kick waxes, everything is so much easier after they invented high fluoro kick waxes. Before this, waxing in such conditions was nightmare, now you just use klister, add layer or two of hardwax on top and you don't need to worry about skis sucking on snow or klister getting icy and losing kick.

PS: I know HF waxes are expensive, but they are actually worth of money... with kick waxes even for recreational skiers.

post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 

No, I doubt klister would have worked very well.  I'm sure with enough effort you could concoct some layers that would be ok, and I thought about using it  as a cushion covered by a hard wax as you described, but even then you would need have needed a colder temp klister than kr60-50 , and those layers are  tough to apply in the parking lot. My snow description was lacking a bit, but the snow was new over an old track, packing to a nasty glaze in the sun, still some colder powder in the shade, which was picking up moisture from the air temp.


I love klister, feel it gets a bad rap, but the Maplus was perfect for the day and it was pretty simple to gob on.  I've won races with worse skis than that.

post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by primoz View Post


. With kick waxes, everything is so much easier after they invented high fluoro kick waxes.

PS: I know HF waxes are expensive, but they are actually worth of money... with kick waxes even for recreational skiers.


This issue of fluoro kick waxes is interesting.  Toko boasts how they knew all along that fluoro kick waxes were a bad idea, and point to Swix dropping the XF line as proof.


Myself, I've never figured out the Toko waxes, and found Swix XF 50 to be an ice proof Oregon miracle.  I'm down to my last bit of that, and hope the lower fluor VF50 is as good.


Maplus even makes a green kick wax in fluoro and non fluoro....I doubt that one is worth it, but maybe in a cold fog I'll get to compare someday.


I don't have much experience with fluoro klisters.  What differences have you seen?

post #7 of 16

Lately I don't have much experiences either... only as much as I need them for my own skiing ;) I'm out of this business for quite few years now, but before I was serviceman for our World cup team and from those times I have pretty much only great experiences with them. Before fluoro klisters, you were fighting with klister getting icy on a bit colder snow (something like you said you had in shadow), and waxing for mixed conditions (kinda icy track on some parts, and dry cold snow on others) was really nightmare... especially for service people, but also for skiers, because they never had perfect skis. With fluoro klisters, this problems are history. You have to wax it really wrong, to get it icy. To be honest, I have no idea why, but it looks like fluor prevents making ice or freezing. Before that, when we had only glide fluoro powders, we were actually mixing Swix CeraF powder into normal klister, to achieve something similar in those critical conditions. But we still used klister only when it was absolutely necessary.

With fluoro klisters, you can use them much more. Kick is always great with klister, and speed is not that much of an issue anymore. So even based on your second description, I would still go with klister ;) Ok it's almost impossible to tell this without seeing snow and track, but just from this, I stay with my first suggestion ;)

post #8 of 16

Reading through the Swix 09-10 catalog,


"KR050: +3°C to -4°C, very adaptable working on moist fine grained and coarse snow around freezing. Ideally it is best around freezing but works also on somewhat wet coarse snow."


Seems similar to the Maplus K84 Red Klister and somewhat the Yellow stick & Klister.....


"KR060 +5°C to 0°C (Improved, better grip!) Created for medium wet snow. 'Vario' is best on warm side of freezing."


Sounds similar to the Maplus K85 Yellow Klister  (maybe stick Yellow)......


The yellow stick is so gooey, it seems more towards a klister than a stick in workability.


I was just out measuring temps to prep for ski and it got me wondering if you were seeing variable readings:

1) is it better to err warmer when it is warming and colder when temps are falling?

2) where is the best place to get accurate temps in strong sunshine? In the snow 'x' cm or air temps within 10 cm of the surface?


I had pretty good luck with the Maplus S63 violet stick in similar conditions the other day, just below 0° and sunny. We get a huge (30°F/17°C (+/-) ) temperature swing on days like today. Waxing at the moment of the ski seems like the best option since it's tough to plan with a highly variable schedule. In my case, my bench is 10 steps from the snow and track.


Here's the Maplus Application procedure recommendations.



post #9 of 16
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by primoz View Post


. To be honest, I have no idea why, but it looks like fluor prevents making ice or freezing. Before that, when we had only glide fluoro powders, we were actually mixing Swix CeraF powder into normal klister, to achieve something similar in those critical conditions.


Cool!  I pride myself on creative concoctions, but never tried that.  Thanks for the interesting post.


Sort of blows away this Toko claim: (Sorry font bug is screwing with the paste)


"Toko was the first company to recognize that Fluorinated kick waxes were NOT the way to go. Five years

ago, Toko introduced the


has followed Toko’s lead and dropped Fluorinated kick waxes."

Carbon Grip line which brought general ridicule from other wax companies representatives. Now, virtually every company


post #10 of 16

When I finally got out, the sun was low angled and the temperature was -1°C. The wind blown snow had filled in our rudimentary, neighborhood track and was crusting up a bit. So, I tried the Yellow on one ski and the Fluoro Violet on the other. I that I'd be doing a quick turnaround after the first couple contacts with the snow because the yellow was grip far more than the violet on the dog/footpath access to the 'track'.


Once on the track with variable conditions, I could have done a double blind test and never known they were different waxes. The glide was excellent and the grip was good in my limited expereince. It was certainly overall much, much more enjoyable and consistent than waxless skis with glide wax. Whether or not another combination of wax would have provided better grip, time will tell. I'll give the klisters a whirl when it makes sense.


Note to self: yellow goo on glove and pole removes the need for pole straps.

post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 

Now that's interesting.  Unles it is pretty icy you would not expect much glide from that glop at -1C.  We may be onto a very good wax in that yellow taffy.


As the snow gets crusty, some of the warmer kick waxes, like the violets can work ok, but they never last long.  Binder and hard wax can get you by if it is ground to sugar, but klister is needed after a few freeze thaw cycles.

post #12 of 16

The surface and loose snow was more granular and not icy. In a few places after busting through some thicker crust sections it was very sugary and a few spots, wet. Never felt substantially different in glide or grip. By the chart the temperature was in the 'overlap' area of the two waxes. Not real sure on the humidity level, but seemed more dry than moist.


If they feel the same, I'd go with the violet fluoro since it's much easier to apply, even if you have to do it again. I only went 6k, but it looks like I could have gone for a while longer with the application (over orange binder).


BTW, I waxed the same distance on the grip zone of about 12 inches ahead of toe and to heel.

Edited by Alpinord - 2/20/2009 at 01:28 am
post #13 of 16
Thread Starter 

Chris Freeman finished fourth in the 15 classic at the World Championships.  Heck of an effort for a guy who is diabetic.  Ties his best result ever.


They still don't have a wax for really new wet snow:



I felt great today, the skis were great, they did an outstanding job and I skied the best I could have. I can't think of a section where I could have done any better," Freeman said.

Conditions were snowy and, according to Freeman, "the kind that are a nightmare for classic racing."

"Ten minutes before the start we were all huddled around the benches trying to figure out what skis to go with," Freeman said. "Those kind of conditions are always very stressful."

Freeman went with a pair of "hairies" or skis with a section of base scuffed with sandpaper, which were chosen over skis with warm kick wax.

post #14 of 16

Cross country waxing wiki?

post #15 of 16
Thread Starter 

The big lazy dog sniffs the bait, waddles away.


How do you make a Wiki?  Does anyone look at them?

post #16 of 16

Newfydog I was never really big fan of Toko kick waxes. I don't know, but Swix just worked better in 80% of cases. And I will never agree with this Toko statement. I still think, that fluoro kick waxes are great thing. Now who is right? I don't know... I have helluva lot of experiences, but then again Toko technicians have them too, and quite few of their servicemen (at least at days when I was in World cup) were previous skiers and wax technicians with different national teams. And third side... same goes for Swix, which doesn't really agree with Toko on this one :) One claims this, one claims that, but to be honest I doubt there's single truth. For me personally fluoro is good with kick waxes, but that's just me... and Swix :)

But that I won't sound too biased, I always preffered Toko glide waxes over pretty much everything. Of course I was using everything else what was on market, or off market (some of stuff is racing service only, and you can't get that in stores... especially Swix has, or at least had, whole bunch of racing service only stuff), but in about 50% of cases, Toko was winner :)

As far as waxing in new wet snow goes, then yes... that's worse possible thing you can get. We were using normal klister skis without wax and just prepared with sandpaper for years, but that's far from perfect ski. It's probably better then anything else, but it's on skiers side to decide if he or she will go for it or not. It's not normal ski, and you can't really ski classic normal way with this kind of preparation, so many skiers don't go for it.

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