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Try something new! - Page 2

post #31 of 60
Wow. That was hard to watch. (snicker, snicker.)
post #32 of 60
Wouldn't it be funny if SCSA was Harb?

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro...
post #33 of 60
I think it would be funnier if SCSA was B Barnes! Psycho! Maybe we could call him Sybill and chain him up in the basement.
post #34 of 60
Lisamarie said
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>JR has this really interesting thread on hyperchange, called Zealots, Cynics and Philosophers. Supposedly, in a discussion, people lean towards any of those 3 roles.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would expand that to say that in an online discussion, there are actually 5 roles: Zealots, Cynics, Philosophers, Jesters, and Trolls.
<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by MarkXS (edited July 24, 2001).]</FONT>
post #35 of 60
Is your real name Richard Cranium?

Are you another one of those Sexual Intellectuals?

post #36 of 60

Welcome aboard.
post #37 of 60
Thread Starter 
Okay, here I am. Sorry it took so long.

Let's clean this up some.

1) Todd. No one is telling you that this is the only way. I'm telling you that this is yet another path to enlightenment, as you say. I'm just asking you to try it.

2) Rob says that I want instructors to try this just because its worked for me. Wrong. It's working for hundreds, if not thousands of "me". The example you gave makes sense if I was the only documented case of success.

But I'm not. Like I said, there's a lot of skiers and instructors who are having success.

3) Bob Barnes says that it's not new. Well, Bob, if you could show me proof - documentation that this existed somewhere else, I'd believe you. I've read your text for months now, claiming that "Oh, this isn't new..." Well, prove it. No fast typing either. How about some facts. It's called "Prior Art".

C'mon, Bob. You can't even provide documentation of whatever it is you teach. I bought your book, I couldn't find any evidence to support any of your claims. I've been to every web site you people have given me.

4) Rusty.
Ditto. You yourself told me not to buy the Alpine Manual - that it’s practically useless.

This is a system that teaches people how to ski, then become experts. It's the first true teaching system to date. Because, unless you can show me another teaching system, that encompasses what this does, it's brand new and it is the first of its kind.

5) Not everyone here is a lousy instructor, of course not. But, you are a lousy instructor if you refuse to learn anything new or you don't invest in your trade. Not just gang stuff either. Go outside the box.

Like, I went to a Java conference and I have absolutely no use for Java (MarkMark, is gonna pin me to the wall on this one). But, as a professional, I couldn't and can't ignore all the fuss. At least I went, spent my time and money to find out for myself.

6) You guys should follow Lisamarie. I think she's the CEO here. She learns new stuff every year. Spends time and money to do so. Now there's a professional.

My original point with this thread was to try to generate some enthusiasm for students of skiing. I want to let them know that if they want to learn this system, I'll do anything I can to help. When I'm finished with my house in the mountains, I'll have a camp myself - people can come stay at my place. It’ll be fun.

But once again, I got derailed. Oh well, I still have a lot more time to get it right.
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[This message has been edited by SCSA (edited July 24, 2001).]</FONT>
post #38 of 60


4) Rusty.
Ditto. You yourself told me not to buy the Alpine Manual - that it’s practically useless.


Wrong! I remember someone telling you a NEW version would be coming out,hence, don't buy the old version, however,IT WAS NOT ME

I think you would benefit from starting with the old manual.
post #39 of 60
SCSA: THIS complaint in response to Bob's answering your question?

What kind of twisting of "debate" are you talking about. You're the quintessential example of your very own argument.

Don't bother starting a "new" thread. You have nothing new to contribute. You're not even humorous or engaging any longer. Your self-named enthusiasm is nothing more than spite and rant. Take your ball and bat and go home. Come back when you mature.
post #40 of 60
Barking Bears,

I propose a boycott.

post #41 of 60
I second Rob's proposal. Wacko is just out there ego surfing.
post #42 of 60
Quote: Originally posted by SCSA 7/25 2:32 am
Do I tell people here not to buy your books? No. But, you tell people here not to try PMTS

Quote: Originally posted by Bob Barnes 7/25 1:50 am

Again, SCSA--none of this suggests that it would necessarily be "bad" to attend a PMTS camp--I'm sure it could be a great experience, even for someone for whom all these concepts are old hat. <FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Roto (edited July 25, 2001).]</FONT>
post #43 of 60
Actually, SCSA has offered some empirical evidence that was completely ignored. He stated that at Sol Vista, he sees beginning skiers skiing much better at the end of their lessons than at any other hill. Or something like that. I think that to SCSA, it's like hearing scientists insist that it's impossible for a bumblebee to fly.
post #44 of 60
SCSA: Bob took the time and trouble to answer your post in detail. His points are valid and deserve specific answers. Attacks on him on a personal level, including his unfailing courtesy and the way he ends his posts is not advancing your case. This post is the most clear opportunity you have had to refute the assertion that the Harb system is not actually advancing new and superior concepts in helping skiers progress. PLEASE ANSWER BOB'S QUESTIONS.<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by mike_m (edited July 25, 2001).]</FONT>
post #45 of 60
I third that boycott and move for a vote.

He can argue all the logic he wants - the fact is he continually drags the level of coversation down to an insulting level. "Right" or "wrong" is irrelevant here, it is a detriment to the open spirit of the forum.
post #46 of 60
So far I score the battle of the nocturnal antagonists, Bob 10, SCSA 1. You could claim bias, and you would be right.
It is clear that SCSA has valid points, but is overmatched in this debate. He lacks the technical background to adequately defend his statements, essentially bringing a knife to a gunfight.
I have checked some sites review areas and it is true that most concerning Sol Vista report great satisfaction with their program. That is somewhat above the norm. But Paul, you just don't have the "expertise" to support your argument...better go back for a refund from Harold.
post #47 of 60
I'm still chewing that same cud!!!!!
post #48 of 60
Thread Starter 

I'll answer "Best Regards" post, I promise. But I have to sharpen my knife first. Like Robin said, I've got a knife in a gun fight.

...But I'm good with knives. Where I grew up, we couldn't afford guns.

"Best Regards" is a formidable opponent - I really gotta bring it or he's gonna pound me.
post #49 of 60
Thread Starter 
I've had 3 Crown Royals.

I feel bad about ragging on Bob B. So I deleted the posts.
post #50 of 60
I'm staying out of this one......

post #51 of 60
there he goes again, deleting posts instead of defending them.
post #52 of 60
Whoa. BB said "dammit". Huh-huh...That was cool.
post #53 of 60
Having met BB - he is one of the more intelligent, mellow and wise folks I know. To get him this riled up took some work!
post #54 of 60
ya know what's really aggrevating about deleting posts...is that for us latecomers we miss all the juicey stuff

Is this horse dead yet or do we need to keep beating it some more?
post #55 of 60
Hmmm, BB is your "opponent" SCSA? IMHO, Bob is one of the guys "on the inside" of the PSIA, trying to make changes. He's in a far better position to do this than most. Not enough of these folks in the organization.

But hey, I even vote Libertarian.

As one of the regular instructors "subjected" to Elans SCX learning center stuff. Wow, heady days, really "split the ranks" between the instructors who try something new, and those that don't.

I jumped on those shapers and never looked back... Was told at a PSIA training event to get off the gimmicky stuff, and stay on something with less shape. So, while I have respect for the history, etc. of the PSIA, I have had some personal issues...

It's been the individuals with class and intelligence that have stood out, not the PSIA organization. Hmmm, happens in government too, eh? These issues (and others)may have helped push me to Cert with PMTS this year.

If Bob was clinicing, I would certainly go! Training at Breck was very spotty this year, and it was being developed by PSIA folks. Sigh. Some get it. some don't.

"Link" this turn >>>SnoKarver

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[This message has been edited by SnoKarver (edited July 27, 2001).]</FONT>
post #56 of 60
Thread Starter 
Nah, it's dead. It started off just kind of average then went down hill from there.

That's what Mrs. SCSA says about me. ha ha
post #57 of 60
Snokarver, just curious whether training increased or decreased, after Joel left, G. Briner left or John B. became SSD? Three interesting guys. Also have you met David O., a kid we trained.
post #58 of 60

I have been wondering about you, because of your profile. I figured we knew some of the same people. From reading your posts, I know I would enjoy working for/with you.

You bet, know them all. If it's the David O. I know, he was in my locker row this year. Great guy, we free ski together a fair amount. He was very intrigued with my incorporation of PMTS stuff in my lessons, and the sucess I was having.

Please get a hold of me by clicking on my "handle", it's a link to my homepage. Kind of want to keep some of this private... imagine that!

"Link" this turn &gt;&gt;&gt;SnoKarver
post #59 of 60
Snowkarver, come work at Mtn. High! You'll never want to ski anywhere else.
post #60 of 60
Have you guys read "Breck Tech" by John Leffler? Interesting document.
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