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Most Extreme Runs? - Page 6

post #151 of 329
11/11/09 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CR0SS View Post

What makes a race course so extreme? Enlighten me.
 


Hi CROSS,

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for all different forms of ski expression.  I have respect for you.  I enjoyed & envied your summer TR's, & can tell you are a very experienced skier.

I am not talking about skiing down a run that may host a DH.  I am talking about racing on a prepared course, not just surviving it, but actually skiing it.

Like I said everyone has their own definition, so let's see if any of these fit your criteria.

Can it scare the Sh*t out of you, while you are still at the top scoping your line?
Can it kill or maim you if you make a miscalculation or loose focus?
Mandatory air?
Do you need to be in top physical condition to pull it off?
Does it take years of preparation & practice to even have a chance of finishing?

To me the Downhill is the ultimate test of technique, courage & skill that skiing has to offer.  I have been around the ski world my whole life, & have hung with some of the original ski celebs who were initially labeled "extreme" & please believe me those guys are in awe of DH runs like Birds of Prey, the Hannenkahm & Bormio.

I think if you asked guys like Nobis, Tommy Moe or Daron Rahlves who do a lot of Big Mountain "extreme" stuff these days they would probably relay some DH racing experience as being as big an adrenaline rush.

I really haven't read most of this thread, so sorry if I am off track here.
JF
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post #152 of 329
11/11/09 at 2:12pm
I guess I just do not consider manmade conditions and guidelines on how to ski a run as something "extreme".
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post #153 of 329
11/11/09 at 2:29pm
The real question - is extreme STILL the most overused word in skiing?
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post #154 of 329
11/11/09 at 2:37pm
I think this debate kind of goes to the natural vs man made and racer vs freeride.

Don't get me wrong I have huge respect for WC DH racers. I just think the whole element of things being out of your control is what pushes a run into the extreme category. With a prepped race course and everything that goes into it it gives the racer that comfort that they can let it all hang out and go for it. It is purely the human element that makes a race course what it is. With an extreme run even the most prepped(smart) skier will drop in with unanswered questions about the conditions ahead of them. Granted we are talking about in bounds runs but you will still have questions about snow conditions. You do not have rocks lurking hidden under the snow in a race course. You know if you are on course all you have to concentrate on is your skiing form and if you have done your training you will be okay. I would consider a race course from back before injection much more extreme then the courses of today. Racing a DH speeds and not knowing how blown out a corner has become over the course of the day changes things drastically.
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post #155 of 329
11/11/09 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iWill View Post

The real question - is extreme STILL the most overused word in skiing?

Of course it is.

The real questions is when was the point of extreme becoming overused. I am thinking Aspen Extreme played a role.
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post #156 of 329
11/11/09 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post

I am not talking about skiing down a run that may host a DH.  I am talking about racing on a prepared course, not just surviving it, but actually skiing it.

This is one of the things I would use to define if a run qualifies as most extreme. Surviving and skiing would be one in the same. The only way to survive is to actually ski it.
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post #157 of 329
11/11/09 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iWill View Post

The real question - is extreme STILL the most overused word in skiing?
 


Yeah, it's pretty funny when a green on a golf course, or a putt from a particular angle gets labeled as "extreme".
JF
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post #158 of 329
11/11/09 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post



Hi CROSS,

Don't get me wrong,


I am not getting you wrong at all. This is just a interesting twist on the debate here.
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post #159 of 329
11/11/09 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post



Yeah, it's pretty funny when a green on a golf course, or a putt from a particular angle gets labeled as "extreme".
JF

Then you haven't played Augusta National (extreme slopes on greens and ratings) or Spyglass where the 4th hole has an extremely long (about 160 feet, 3 tiered at about 3 foot elevation increments) and extremely narrow (8-14 FEET wide) green.  

p.s.  i know the point you are trying to make. 
 p.p.s.  now we are REALLY off topic.

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post #160 of 329
11/11/09 at 2:58pm
It is an interesting twist.  However, I think both can be extreme for different reasons.  I would be more inclined to drop into a steep powder run and feel as if I could ski it than I would to attempt a WC DH run when in race condition.  When I skied by the top of the John Paul DH at Snowbasin last year with 4ster my first thought was Holy **** that is steep.  I could not have imagined attempting to ski it in race conditions (ice) but I would have been willing to ski it with the 2 feet of powder on it.  Different conditions seem to help define extreme.
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post #161 of 329
11/11/09 at 6:58pm
if the definition is the original use, then it is the manner of skiing of a group of French skiers, (ballencourt ? at Chamonix  and other peaks ... when....80's, earlier? Sylvain on truly beyond category terrain.  

If it just means something beyond black diamond in difficulty and exposure, then it's an adjective and therefore subjective and inaccurately used to the end, IMO.

DH Racing is definitely the most extreme skiing on a course, but if extreme means the rating of terrain, then a downhill course is not extreme terrain, as the same route can be easily skied at a slower speed, and that is not true of extreme terrain, which is extreme at any speed.
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post #162 of 329
11/11/09 at 11:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post


9. Outer Limits—Killington Resort, Vt.
Gregory Ditrinco, executive editor of Ski magazine, calls Outer Limits a classic, old-school mogul run. “It’s long and relentless, and steep, so it physically beats you up,” he said.

Outerlimits @ Killington, VT: 1002 vertical over 1892 length = 29.91*.

This is why these lists are stupid. Grizzly Chute at Snowbowl is over 2000 feet long with an average pitch of 34.6 degrees. It's usually a mixture between large irregular moguls down the center and crud on the edges, but since it's not at a crowded resort it doesn't make the silly list.

BTW Griz Chute is NOT extreme skiing, it's just another long, black-diamond bump run.
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post #163 of 329
1/26/10 at 11:38am
What is the highest degree (steepest) groomed run?
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post #164 of 329
1/26/10 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

What is the highest degree (steepest) groomed run?

Some that come to mind on the east coast:

Skyward - Whiteface
Cloudspin - Whiteface
White Nitro - Sugarloaf
White Heat - Sunday River
The Lies - Gore (occasionally groomed)
Annapurna - Hunter (occasionally groomed)

None of them are real eye poppers though.

Out west... eh I don't know. Too many mountains...
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post #165 of 329
3/31/10 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post


 

Corbett's is definitely a test-piece by most standards.  But "extreme"?  "Endless Glory?"  How many people ski Corbetts in a given year?  Hundreds?  Thousands?

 

Not baggin on Corbet's per se....but IMHO if you're going to use the word "extreme" and "in-bounds" together, the runs should be something that only a select few people get to hit every year....or maybe even less than that.....like once every several years because they're so steep, snow can't always stick them on marginal years.

 

In this category, three lines jump immediately to mind in my local stomping grounds of Tahoe.

 

"Schmidiots" which is located within the Palisades at Squaw. 

And "Heart Chute" and "Patrolmans" at Kirkwood

 

all of which haven't even been possible within the past 2 seasons. and granted once they completely fill in, they have the potential to become boulevards, but that is very very rare.

 

I'll try to dig up some pics.

 

"Schmidiot's" at Squaw from 2005:

 

"Heart Chute" at Kirkwood from 2002:

 

 "Patrolmans" at Kirkwood from 2006:

 

Patrolmans from the top (this run did not go very well for me :( )


 


Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces - 2/10/2009 at 10:00 pm

Holy Crap!!!! That's so sick. I want to ski with you dude!!
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post #166 of 329
3/31/10 at 2:04pm
I call BS on that list.  Squaw has MANY other runs that are more extreme than those, some of the chutes on the tram face, some of the runs around where CR's unfortunate accident happened, and Palisades has several trails that get only a couple of skiers a year, and the best of the best go to squaw. From skinet


Chimney Sweep
Air 15 feet off the cornice onto a four-foot-wide, 60-degree ramp and prepare to hit the next 25-foot cliff at roughly 40 miles per hour. Then it gets hard. Palisades legend Scot Schmidt described it best in Greg Stump’s License to Thrill: “What’s tricky about this thing is the bottom part. It’s like a 90-meter jump.” Failing to stick the landing results in a violent beating.

Schmidiots
Schmidt dropped into this 67-degree, 100-foot line and made ski history in 1983. Watch it in Warren Miller’s Ski Time. Schmidiots involves shooting the snow ramp, jumping over five feet of granite, landing, and immediately airing 20 feet. Keep your tips up, touch down in the two-foot-wide slot, and duck right (this is crucial) before airing again. Feel free to fist pump if you stick it.

 
The Tube
If looking into the Chimney gave you vertigo, hit one of the Tube chutes for a slightly easier route. The skier’s left Tube is a three-foot-wide, 60-plus-degree shaft. Point it, and ollie over exposed rocks into the bowl below. Too easy? Skier’s right Tube is a shoulder-width, ice-coated sluice. Weight one ski at a time to avoid peppery rocks. Arc down the line, air over a patch of granite, and ride into Siberia. Plot your line before you leap, and stick to the plan. Once you roll in, there’s no time for thought.

Extra Chute
Shane McConkey has spent two decades back flipping for the camera off Extra’s cornice, and younger stars make easy work of the 50-foot huck skier’s right. The 55-plus-degree chute is your landing strip. Sidestep down an exposed spine and traverse left to align yourself. Then drop the steeps.

For Petes sake

Pete Bowers nailed what became For Pete’s Sake in 1995. He crept onto dry rock, dropped 20 feet, skipped off a tiny snow pad, and boosted another 40 feet. The line hasn’t been skied since.
Becks rock

Greg Beck dropped 100 feet off the right side of Beck’s Rock in the 1975 classic Daydreams. Thirty-one years later, while filming for Matchstick’s Push, Mike Wilson launched an 80-foot double back flip—twice—off Beck’s in consecutive runs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

Professor Google took me right to this article

 

http://thegearjunkie.com/north-americas-toughest-ski-runs

 

THE TOP 10 DOUBLE-DIAMOND RUNS OF NORTH AMERICA

1. Alta Zero—Jackson Hole Mountain Resort, Wyo.
Among Jackson Hole’s pantheon of double-diamond ski runs, Alta Zero continually came up with the polled skiers as the Wyoming resort’s best steep shot.

2. Two Smokes—Silverton Mountain, Colo.
This super-steep, doglegged chute pinches down to less than 6 feet wide at one point.

3. Climax—Whistler Blackcomb Resort, British Colombia
In the alpine cirque just below Blackcomb Peak, several precipitous chutes flank a feature called Chainsaw Ridge. The most difficult chute, according to Eric Pehota, a professional skier, is Climax.

4. Keyhole—Alpine Meadows, Calif.
Moguls, cliffs and exposed rocks on a near-vertical plane of snow makes Keyhole among the toughest runs in the Lake Tahoe region.

5. Corbet’s Couloir—Jackson Hole Mountain Resort, Wyo.
Probably the most well-known double-diamond run in the world, Corbet’s Couloir starts with a mandatory air-in, which means you must jump off a large cornice just to get on the run below.

6. Avalanche Bowl to Zoom—Loveland Ski Area, Colo.
This is one of the steepest runs in Colorado, said Chad Jackson, a videographer with ski-film company Teton Gravity Research.

7. Goat—Stowe Mountain Resort, Vt.
Considered among the toughest runs in New England, Goat tumbles for nearly three-quarters of a mile, reaching 36 degrees steep and featuring bumps as large as a VW Bug.

8. The Palisades—Squaw Valley USA, Calif.
Guarding the summit of 8,900-foot Squaw Peak, the Palisades are a cliff formation fluted with semi-skiable chutes, many of which end in death-defying leaps over dark granite cliff faces.

9. Outer Limits—Killington Resort, Vt.
Gregory Ditrinco, executive editor of Ski magazine, calls Outer Limits a classic, old-school mogul run. “It’s long and relentless, and steep, so it physically beats you up,” he said.

10. Mak-M-Stairs-Plunge—Telluride, Colo.
This unending bump run is actually a combination of three different runs that drop from a 11,890-foot peak, forming a penultimate leg-burner, with giant moguls and a consistently unforgiving pitch.

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post #167 of 329
3/31/10 at 2:20pm
I think that anything on which you have personally had a near-death experience must qualify as 'extreme' (I could be talked into deleting the word 'near', but then we wouldn't be having this conversation).  In that regard, I nominate Wacky's at Breck (I do not consider anything else in the Lake Chutes area 'extreme' by any definition). 

And the patroller who very impressively jump-turned halfway down Wacky's carrying one of my skis that he'd retrieved probably doesn't consider that 'extreme'.
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post #168 of 329
3/31/10 at 7:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post

 50 degrees isn't pretty steep, it's damn steep. I'd be very surprised if it was 50. I'd be very surprised if any ski area in the country could claim a 50 degree inbounds slope for more than a few vertical feet.


Mammoth has 2, hangmans, huevos grande, which are 52 and 53, and several other runs that are in the 50's.   Squaw has some in the 60's!!!!!! plus probably about 5-10 in the 50's
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post #169 of 329
3/31/10 at 8:48pm
PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!  WHAT A PUSSY RUN!!!!  You fall and you only slide down 30 feet???  At the narrowest it is 30 feet wide??? 

How about a run that is

Chimney Sweep
Air 15 feet off the cornice onto a four-foot-wide, 60-degree ramp and prepare to hit the next 25-foot cliff at roughly 40 miles per hour. Then it gets hard. Palisades legend Scot Schmidt described it best in Greg Stump’s License to Thrill: “What’s tricky about this thing is the bottom part. It’s like a 90-meter jump.” Failing to stick the landing results in a violent beating.

Schmidiots
Schmidt dropped into this 67-degree, 100-foot line and made ski history in 1983. Watch it in Warren Miller’s Ski Time. Schmidiots involves shooting the snow ramp, jumping over five feet of granite, landing, and immediately airing 20 feet. Keep your tips up, touch down in the two-foot-wide slot, and duck right (this is crucial) before airing again. Feel free to fist pump if you stick it.

Main Chute
Steep but docile, Main’s a 53-degree chute that quickly opens into Siberia Bowl. The first turns tip you on edge, but there’s very little exposure. Fall and you probably won’t die. Then again, just straightline it like a local, and avoid sliding out, going over the handlebars, or getting hung up on rocks.

the 53 degree run is THE EASY one. The hard run is a 67 degree  run, jumping 20 feet ONTO A @ FOOT WIDE SLOT, then airing it again!!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by goblue View Post

I'll second Delerium Dive and SIlver CIty at Sunshine.

 

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post #170 of 329
3/31/10 at 9:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post

Lars --

 

You are kind of missing the point.

 

Mo Snow is an Online Editorial Coordinator for Mountain Sports Media Ski - Skiing - Warren Miller Entertainment - SkiNet.co.  A "professional" writing an article for her employer's website.  She used photos in her article without obtaining permission (actually, she asked, wasn't granted, but then used it anyway!), and there's one photo used from Biglines.com where she actually photoshopped out the Biglines.com watermark and then used it.  No attempt was made to give credit to the original source of the information and when caught, the excuse of "was in a pinch needing to meet a deadline" was tossed out.  This is professional journalism?

 

People can use photos that I post in forums and threads in a non-commercial venue all they want.  But not without permission in a commercial venue.  Do you not see the difference between non-commercial and paid commercial use?


What she needs, is for someone to put her over their knee, and spank her bare bottom with a plastic hairbrush for 30 minutes while she cries like a baby!!  Or just be fired and not get a spanking
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post #171 of 329
3/31/10 at 9:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthead View Post

 

 



Please!!!!!!!!!!!  the top steepness is 36 degrees???  Squaw has over 20 runs with a steepness greater than that, and 5-10 with a steepness greatern than 50 where you have to get air, then navigate a run under 7 feet wide, then take air again!!  And mammoth has about 5 runs over 50 degree steepness where you also have to navigate it at widths under 10 feet, and take air!! 
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post #172 of 329
3/31/10 at 9:44pm
I guess if your that into steep then you should do some backcountry, plenty out there.  Russian coloir of Greys/torrys,  The Slide and needles eye off Mt Evans etc...  all 55 plus narrow with small airs and about 800 vertical long....  .  Although the pics from Kirkwood look killer!   Never been there looks like you have to catch them on a good day/year.     Beauty of Backcountry is it's always open. 
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post #173 of 329
3/31/10 at 9:48pm

I think the length of the runs are also important, I mean if you do a steep chute with airs but it's only 200 feet of hairy stuff, that doesn't really compare to skiing a 1500 foot 55 degree pitch in Alaska, ya know?

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post #174 of 329
3/31/10 at 10:00pm
so if one has NEVER SKIED BEFORE but has the balls (or is wasted) and hucks a 100 ft cliff they are extreme??  There are runs at Squaw ( which has never been my home mountain, and I havent been there since the 80's) that you have to huch a 40 -60 foot cliff, THEN ski a 4-6 wide 60 degree run, then JUMP AGAIN!!, and you count just blindly hucking a cliff to be extreme??  When Squaw gets the extreme of the extreme, and has runs that have only been ski'd once?? 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremysbrown View Post

 

 

i dunno, i've seen quite a few videos of guys not sticking the landing on 100 ft+ cliff drops and they lived to tell. because they didn't die it wasn't extreme?

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post #175 of 329
4/1/10 at 12:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PimpinPanda View Post


PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!  WHAT A PUSSY RUN!!!!  You fall and you only slide down 30 feet???  At the narrowest it is 30 feet wide??? 
Never been to Sunshine, huh?

Delirium Dive is the name of the most commonly skied route in a "free-ride" area of 600 acres. There are some lines, like the one shown in the video, that are a lot like typical "western double blacks". There are also some more challenging/technical lines. There are also plenty of narrow chutes in the Wild West area of sunshine...if that is your thing. My avatar pic is looking down the widest (by quite a margin) of those cutes. 

Silver City is in a whole other league. I haven't seen any inbounds lines that compare to silver city in terms of exposure. But I haven't been to Squaw.....
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post #176 of 329
4/1/10 at 8:49pm
 Panda...  I'm starting to understand why you can't get a job at your local hill.
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post #177 of 329
4/3/10 at 5:25pm
 I had the most extreme runs this year on a trip up north..Thank god we hit a Mcdonalds just in time
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post #178 of 329
4/4/10 at 5:33am
Eagles Nest (now called McConkey's Bowl I think?) is probably the most challenging run at Squaw. It's only... 300 vertical though? There's tougher out there, but yea, when you slide on that 68 degree pitch you're going all the way down and flying off that 40 footer at the bottom.
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post #179 of 329
4/4/10 at 7:44am
Redline @ Magic from the very top yesterday.  Nothing like it anywhere on the EC.  I nearly shat my pants billygoating jump turns on the vein of snow on the upper face.  Probably them most challenging line I've skied to this point.      
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post #180 of 329
4/4/10 at 8:12am
i havent skiied it but as i prepare for my trip to alta in was looking on youtube and found this video of a chute there... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTD79nGYzcI
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