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Boot Performance Question ... Old vs. New

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 

I've searched a bit for this here and in other forums.  While it may seem strange, I have yet to try a new boot that feels as good as my old Salomon SX-92 Equipe R's.  The last few seasons I've been in X-Waves and Impacts, and tried on roughly 15 different boots in the store, but nothing seems to have the fit and function of my old 92's.  I know that rear-entry boots get a bad rap, but the Equipe R's seemed to have quite a bit of performance features that the basic "rental" rear-entry boots lacked.


So the question is ... what am I really giving up with the 92's vs today's boots?  It seems to me that the performance is the same if not better than the "new" overlap boots I've tried. 


As second question ... would a 3-piece like Full-Tilt/Krypton/Daleboot be a better transition for me than a traditional 4-buckle overlap?  I tried on some Daleboots but have not been able to try the other two. 


Thanks for all your responses.  I'm just trying to get that old feeling back (of course, losing 20 years could always help )


Thanks, drn92

post #2 of 13

Are you... serious??

post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 



I went all over Alta and Snowbird on my old boots and skinny skis ... I do see the difference in the skis but not the boots.  I really would like to know the performance differences between the SX-92 Equipe R's and new overlap boots like the Salomon Impact.


Appreciate the answers ...


Thanks, drn92

post #4 of 13

I was just trying to sort out if you were a troll since on its face the question is almost ridiculous.


To hit a few high (or low) points, the rear entry design has the following flaws in no particular order:


- poor anatomical fit around crucial areas like the midfoot, ankle, heel... hell, pretty much the whole foot

- cuff hinge points that are compromised at best

- no rotary movement re. the cuff, i.e. no capacity to follow (or challenge) the tibia in rotation

- no capacity for the cuff to wrap intimately around the leg (your critical control surface re. edging)

- horrendous rearward stiffness since that part of the boot is of course open-able

- forefoot 'fit' adjustments that move the foot away from the shell reducing feel and energy transmission


I'm sure there are [many] more points, but I'm having a decent glass of wine and some good cheese and I don't want to vomit over my keyboard.


In summary, the best approach is to fill your old boots will cement and use them as boat anchors.  The one saving grace of the rear entry design is that you can drive a car fairly easily with them. 


If you want to somewhat replicate the fit, comfort, and ease of entry/exit of your old faithfuls, consider getting a high end Garmont or Scarpa alpine touring (aka coaching) boot.  They ski really well and you can drive a stick shift with 'em.

post #5 of 13
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the (semi) decent response.  I agree on a couple points below, especially with the forefoot fit adjustments and the rotary movement in the cuff.  However, I would disagree with others, namely:


cuff hinge points ... seem to be right at the ankle where my leg would normally flex and bend.

anatomical fit around the lower leg ... I would argue that it is better.

rearward stiffness ... the Impacts I am in now are terrible; much worse than my old boots.


I'll take a look at the Scarpa's and Garmont's, thanks for the recommendation.


Hope the whine and cheese is good ... nice little add to the response.



post #6 of 13

having tried all these different boots you seem to have made your decisions and do not want to be convinced, on-line this is impossible to do, the only way it will work is by finding a good boot fitter who can guide you though the process...just trying 15 boots is not the way to do it.....


have you shell checked all the boots? are you trying them in different sizes? or are you going with the same size as your rear entry boot..... one thing that makes me think this is the comment about the impact having less rearward stiffness than the SX92!!!!!! it sounds very much to me that the impact is not the correct boot for you


To break down the advantages/ disadvantages of the two types of boot into a simple single point the rear entry boot is a fixed volume shell which relys on external mechanisms to try and crush the foot into a position, the overlap boot has a variable volume shell which allows it to be ajusted accurately to accomodate the morphology of the foot and lower leg.


yes there is the odd person out there who can benefit from the use of a rear entry boot[generally those with a fixed and fused ankle who cannot bend the foot to get into an overlap boot] but they ae few and far betwen, everyone else i have ever dealt with be they intermediate sliders or national level athletes finds the control and fit better in the overlap boots

post #7 of 13
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the reply ... much appreciated.


The fixed vs. variable volume shell does make sense.  Perhaps the X-Wave and Impacts are the wrong boots.  My mind is not made up ... but I personally do not see the difference based on my experiences.


The 15 boots were in the shops of experienced boot-fitters, and the X-Waves (2 years ago) and the Impacts (this season, different shop) were the recommendations of the bootfitters.  After 20+ days on skis, I am not seeing an improvement in peerformance and am seeing a decrease in comfort.


Appreciate the input.



post #8 of 13

Performance Factors


T - Technique

T - Tactics

P - Physical

P - Psychological

E - Environment

E - Equipment





Ski boots are a small (but important) component in overall performance. 





Is it possible that you would benefit from a ski lesson...?

post #9 of 13
Thread Starter 

I could certainly benefit from a lesson ... as could anyone.  I have been skiing for 35 yrs and did teach for a season at Alta back in the early 90's, but equipment (skis in particular) has changed quite a bit since then.


As stated earlier, I am not wedded to rear-entry boots.  I am trying to figure out what front entry boots could work ... thanks for the suggestion to try Scarpa or Garmont. 


For me (and I emphasize me) it has been an expensive experiment (2 pair of boots in the last three years, both from bootfitters) that has not resulted in improved performance and most importantly has resulted in decreased comfort.


Appreciate the feedback!



post #10 of 13

i know this may seem like a strange suggestion, but......if you are not happy with a boot from a bootfitter why not go back to THAT fitter and ask them to address the issues, rahter than doing what a lot of peopl seem t do which is get upset, vent their spine about it and go to a different fitter...prehaps the first guy just needed a little time to adjust something to fit you better....


that said it still sounds like salomon and your feet don't get on


good luck

post #11 of 13
Thread Starter 

Absolutely ... hopefully the above was not a rant ... if it came off that way I apologize.


I've been working with the bootfitter on the Impacts I currently have.  He has tried a couple things so far, with more to come if I can find time to get to the shop.  I've been in Salomon boots for at least 25 years, so the basic shape of the shell seems to work okay.  Perhaps the Impacts are not the right boot, perhaps it is time for a new brand.  They seem to have a lot of heel lift when I ski steeper lines, and my feet are losing circulation (going numb but not cold) when I am standing/on the lift.


I guess when I watch the old Stump classics, it sure looked like Schmidt, Plake, and Hattrup were able to ski pretty aggressively in the old 92 rear-entry boots.  After 15+ years of the same thing, any change is different.


Thanks, drn92

post #12 of 13



I have skied in every evolution of the Salomon rear entry boots while teaching full time and then ultimately working for Salomon for a period of time.  While I made modifications and down sized two shell sizes to maximize performance and feel, I definitely realized improved skiability once I switched to a traditional overlap boot.  Some of the aspects mentioned by Jdistefa and some less describable, created improved feel and flex. 


There are many people like yourself who still love their rear entries and are looking to replace them with a current version.  The closest I have seen is the Nordica Gransport which has a special buckle which when opened fully, allows the rear spoiler to open similarly to a rear entry yet still has some advantages of a four buckle overlap boot.  The one area I question is the rearward stiffness as it does not have a solid blocking type connection between the upper and lower shell as with other traditional overlaps.


We must balance our desires for performance with our desires for comfort and convenience and there is a whole spectrum of models from each manufacturer which target these desires.  The truth is, if you want high performance and strong heel hold, ease of entry and soft cushy stuffing is probably not on the menu?

post #13 of 13
Thread Starter 



Thanks for the reply.  I appreciate the feedback, especially given your experience.  I guess my problem might be that I have not found the right "new" boot yet.  Of course, it might be that I am 20 years older ...


Again, based on the two boots I've tried, the 92's seemed to provide every bit as much performance with more comfort.  They were certainly easier to put on, and, at least for me, had great support in the lower leg through the ankle.  The forefoot was probably not as good as the current boots, but that does not seem to hinder the performance.  I'd argue that the liners in my 92's were not nearly as cushy as the liners in my Impacts.


Have you compared the old Salomons to a 3-piece like the Krypton or Daleboot?  The reason I ask about these is that they seem to have better ankle/heel hold while still being comfortable and supportive.  I'll probably look into the boots recommended above as well.  I looked for the Gransport this year but could not find it.  It seemed like too much of a compromise ... if I am going front entry I figured I might as well go full bore.


Thanks again, drn92

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