or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Rob Butler, What the Heck?????
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Rob Butler, What the Heck????? - Page 4

post #91 of 126
Hey, don't go now, it was just getting to be a bit more fun!

Oz, you are so out there, where was it again? (HBO has the program I think about OZ)

Ott, do not appologise about being a high cholesterol, old school guy who is just defending what WAS for so many years the Ski Instructors right to be right! (Bend Zee Neeze please)

LisaMarie, keep it going GIRL you are slammin em! (nobody listens to me and I get all I need to know for the Bears)

Zeek, nice mental picture, I will enjoy my thangsgiving brunch with out GRAVY this year!

It is all in FUN guys / GAL, keep it light and don't take it so personal. Some of you seem to feel that if you are not given positive re-inforcement here in the forum that you are lesser for it!

GET A LIFE, SKI MORE!
post #92 of 126
OH, one last thought ..... DO any of you live near a STARBUCKS?

LisaMarie?
Ott?
Oz, it would take too long to 'esplain what it is, dude.
SCA, (grin), you know what I'm talkin bout!
post #93 of 126
Thread Starter 
Should have read this thread, first: http://www.epicski.com/cgi-bin/ultim...c&f=4&t=000632

Sorry! The answers to my real question are there.
post #94 of 126
Oh NO!

Did you say SKID!

LisaMarie, such a KID!

Good Moniker; S-Kid!

Hopping you are having a great Thanksgiving LM!

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 22, 2001 11:26 AM: Message edited 1 time, by Dr.GO ]</font>
post #95 of 126
LisaM:

The open stance had nothing to do with the introduction of shaped skis. Nor did they (shapes) have anything to do with carving.

I have searched my (often hazy) memory but clearly remember being introduced to it in during the winter of 1981/82. A trick skier Noel DuBlois spent the day at Hunter chiding and heckling me to "get em open"..... he was skiing with about 8" of separation then.
post #96 of 126
Thread Starter 
Then once again, I stand corrected. But like I said, the stance thing is not my main issue on this point.
My own difficulty is in integrating the types of exercises described by Butler, or what Lodro was describing in his thread, and the actual carve. I'm still not sure of which happens first. Do you first begin to edge, then steer, or do you steer then edge? I can skid fairly well, and since it's a skill I picked up pretty quickly, I can only assume that its not really all that impressive. {given that I have no natural talent whatsoever in skiing}
Carving is more of a challenge, kind of a hit or miss thing, but according to Gordon (my bootfitter} any sort of carving or correct alignment would be nearly imposssible in my former bedroom slipper Technicas. {lets see what the new Salomons do for me}.
But in trying to put it all together, all Hades breaks loose!
post #97 of 126
Lisa,

You gotta lotta boytoys here.

So I'm willing to bet that once you leave Fernie, your skills will moocho improved.
post #98 of 126
Does anybody else think Lisa really needs to get out and ski very soon?

(especially in the nice new boots and custom footbeds I got her for her birthday, so she can finally get some decent edge control going?)

Way too long since she's gotten good snow [img]smile.gif[/img]

Me, I find myself humming the Rob Butler "Personal Performance Tips" theme music when I'm trying to ski something steeper than I'm comfortable on. Must be something that's sinking in!
post #99 of 126
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yuki:
LisaM:

The open stance had nothing to do with the introduction of shaped skis. Nor did they (shapes) have anything to do with carving.

I have searched my (often hazy) memory but clearly remember being introduced to it in during the winter of 1981/82. A trick skier Noel DuBlois spent the day at Hunter chiding and heckling me to "get em open"..... he was skiing with about 8" of separation then.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exceptions, exceptions. Let's face it, shaped skis did more for carving and open stance than any obscure individual out there. Sure pros knew about the benefits of carving and open stance, but with 207cm straight skis, only 1% of the skiing population could actually carve in an open stance.
post #100 of 126
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MarkXS:
Does anybody else think Lisa really needs to get out and ski very soon?

(especially in the nice new boots and custom footbeds I got her for her birthday, so she can finally get some decent edge control going?)

Way too long since she's gotten good snow [img]smile.gif[/img]
..........
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think Lisa is the only one.

After SCSA, Man from Oz, etc it's just Lisa's turn (who's next?). I doubt there's any long term hard feelings ...... it's probably just a 'family' discussion.

The Q angle is a new one on me too but maybe thats because I've been spending too much time working on the G-spot.

DB
post #101 of 126
Thread Starter 
So now you know your Gs and Qs !
post #102 of 126
Hugh?
Waaaa?
G-Spot?
You Talkin' to Me?
No, YOU TALKIN TO ME?
Eh, You Talkin to ME?

You guys are a lot of fun!
post #103 of 126
Lisamarie-you recently said steer then edge, or edge then steer.

I had an "international coach" from a University and a PSIA-E Examiner standing together when I asked why coaches say a turn sequence is rotate, edge, pressure, while PSIA Examiners say a turn sequence is edge, pressure, rotate. They didn't understand the other's viewpoint.

You are not the only one confused! It is only English, which is hard to understand anyway. Does it feel good? Is it efficient?

Do you start a turn by releasing pressure (collapsing) your downhill ski? Or do you start a turn by actively releasing and then extending your uphill leg?

Same movement, just different mental outlook. This past weekend I mentioned the "collapse" to a student, and his eyes went wide. He had a hard time extending his uphill leg. He just needed a different visual.

If it isn't fun, don't do it.
post #104 of 126
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr.GO:
OH, one last thought ..... DO any of you live near a STARBUCK?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go. Isnt that the monster that was created when Ronald got tired of flipping burgers?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TomB:
only 1% of the skiing population could actually carve in an open stance.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tom. 1%ers? Do Hells angels ski? Nah no way, skiing is an individual sport.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lisamarie:
Do you first begin to edge, then steer, or do you steer then edge? I can skid fairly well, and since it's a skill I picked up pretty quickly, I can only assume that it’s not really all that impressive. Carving is more of a challenge, kind of a hit or miss thing, but according to Gordon (my bootfitter} any sort of carving or correct alignment would be nearly impossible in my former bedroom slipper Technicas.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMHO

LM its not Gordon’s wisdom you need but maybe a week or two on the Reggae ski team. Sort of dull the brain a little and let the feet do what comes natural. An fine analytical mind can progress the “intellect genes” but too much analysis will regress the “sport genes”. (where the G spot is found)

Woof, woof let me out ... all this Thanksgiving gravy and Ive soiled my crate!

Oz [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #105 of 126
Thread Starter 
Okay, now we're getting someplace. Gee, if PSIA and International Coaches can't agree, no wonder us poor liitle students are so confused!

So here's what happens. Downhill ski says "C'mon lets play!" and goes on edge.

Uphill ski says "Nuh Uh, not me, I'm staying edged right into this hill!"

Downhill ski: "Hey c'mon you big fraidy cat!"

Uphill: "Oh alright" {rushes frantically past the flattening stage, and quickly gets on edge}

Downhill: {who of course, is now the uphill}
"A little bit late, aren't you?"
post #106 of 126
Thread Starter 
Oz, we were posting at the same time. Reggae ski team? Where do I sign up?

About the analysis stuff, you are quite correct. I can be an instructors worst nightmare sometimes.
post #107 of 126
OK, you guys, I'll show you what the official top PSIA turn l;ooked like on January 16, 1969 when this picture of me was taken. Kneissl White Stars, Koflach double laced boots, Marker toe piece and marker turntable heel with six foot long thongs.

Have we come a long way in the last 32 years?
Maybe some. We used to ski everything we ski now with that technique just fine, as we do now. Only now it is easier. :

...Ott
post #108 of 126
Thread Starter 
Hey Wow! You're doing that shoulder thingie move I learned at Bormio! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
post #109 of 126
Oh yes, we were teching the Austrian reverse shoulder technique, it worked quite well with the existing equipment.

...Ott
post #110 of 126
Ott really has it goin.

Ott, does the sweater still fit?
post #111 of 126
From the deeeeep concentration portrayed I think the thong maybe biting a little …. “man I told then to tan that leather”

Cool photo Ott … Jean-Claude Gangl … Definite Legend Status

Oz [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #112 of 126
Ott - Stein Ericksen is my hero!!! That was real skiing in those days. Do you have a picture of a Royal christie into a crossover on real skiis? Not the whoosie ballet skiis.

These young whippersnappers don't know what it was like. I took a 10 year leave from teaching from '76 to '86. The first clinic I attended, I showed up with my 205 (I am 5'6") Spaulding Starboards(how patriotic)!!

The young full certs in the group could not believe what I could do on those planks. Ah, the good ol' days.


If it isn't fun, don't do it. : :
post #113 of 126
Otto!

You wore Thongs?!?!
post #114 of 126
Hy Ott,

I am looking at that wake, and it looks like quite a "skid" you got going there.
"Windshield Wiper Turns?"

That is one thing that has changed over the years. The new technology allows the ski to bite and hold an edge with probably less effort than you are putting into that one!
post #115 of 126
No, SCSA, that sweater went to the Goodwill Industries a long time ago, I'm about twice the size now [img]redface.gif[/img] The only thing that still fits is the PSIA badge on it.

Dr.Go, That's about as far into reverse camber as those skis would go, the skis carved from the tips to under foot when pressured hard, the tail just schmiered. The test for suitability of a ski in those days was to lay one of the skis down on the hard floor in the ski shop, lay a piece of thin paper under where the bindings would be and stand on the ski with both feet. If the piece of paper could not be slid out from under the ski, you bought it. There were many skis which would not even go flat under the static weight of a skier, to bend even the shovel took speed.

It's a nice skid I'm having, useful then as it is now, but I have too much edge for vindshieldviper turns, they are made on a much flatter ski.

As for the long thongs, they go around your ankle and keep the boots from collapsing, so that when we rolled the ankle over, the ski actually followed instead of staying flat.

Where did you think I wore six foot leather thongs?

.........Ott
post #116 of 126
You never know, I saw the Cave Man Bikini Contest. The Thong couild be anywhere!

In reality I had a few pair myself. I blew right out of them one time at Sun Valley on a course! Snapped both like they were made of paper!

I have this scar to prove it!

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 23, 2001 08:27 AM: Message edited 1 time, by Dr.GO ]</font>
post #117 of 126
In another thread, some instructors use rentals. That is not as much a challenge as skiing on "originals".

I think a real eye opener would be to have instructors that have never skied on pre-1980 equipment to take a few runs on them.
Long thongs were the way to go! Lange Flo was a god-send(or curse). The lastest issue of International Ski History has quite an article about Bob Lange(www.skiinghistory.org).

Painting on wax, learning what P-tex was, teflon anti-friction plates, the movie Outer Limits... I wane oldies.

Just recently got 2 CDs of Ski Songs from the 50's and 60's. Good stuff..the instructor always got the girl! If anyone is interested in getting it, send me a private.

Just remember, what is new today, is old tomorrow.
post #118 of 126
Ott,

Just seen your pic (nice Christmas jumper by the way). I could instantly tell it was either -

1. The reverse shoulder technique
2. A Flatulence Christie
3. Overly tight thong

DB
post #119 of 126
Dr Go: Und just vere ist dat scar?
post #120 of 126
Yuki,
Se will nichts davon.
Ich kann ea tun, aber ich will nicht.
Wenn Sie wollen, kann ich es Ihnen bringen.
Mochten Sie so etwas?
Ya?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Rob Butler, What the Heck?????