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Why does lifting inside foot toes help initiation. - Page 2

post #31 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by KAZOOSKI View Post

 I agree with both sides of this disussion. When I was told "lift your toes" it did nothing for me. Years later I figured out I need to lift the whole front of my foot. For me lifting my toes resulted in pushing down at the ball of the foot but nothing happened at the ankle except more tension. Dorsiflex the ankle was the real goal of the advice and if I try and lift the whole fore foot, bingo!

 

As to teaching beginners I'll side with WTFH. Over the holidays one of our central ed staff taught me skiing is spelled FUN. (Thanks Joe) I get 1-2 hours to get someone moving with enough control to enjoy sliding on green runs. What ever it takes is the right answer. Safely having fun comes first so the student sees skiing as something they want to do again, as opposed to something they did once. While I agree with you BigE,  Dchan, and Heluva, and always try teaching sound technique first, if it doesn't click with a student fairly quickly I'll move on to trying something different, even if it dosen't fit the ideal path to high skills sking. Fortunately, most of the time, I have good success teaching flatten/tipping the ski to turn and students experience pressure change as a result.


Edited by KAZOOSKI - Thu, 05 Feb 09 17:48:07 GMT

Perfect example and well said.

 

Kazooski points out that it clicked later when he realized what the goal was and the lift the whole front of the foot does promote a proper movement.

 

the movement and task needs to be appropriate for the movement you are trying to correct. It has to be taught correctly and monitored. The instructor/coach needs to understand fully what is trying to be accomplished and be able to determine if it is working or being used properly.

 

The way the OP asked, It sounded like they were trying to understand the mechanics of why it works. Unfortunately it seems that everyone just wants to say why it's bad.

post #32 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

 

Getting "better" is just building on refining good skills, the skill sets never change except in DRT(duration/rate/time for those not PSIA).

 

 

 

By the way, you are missing a piece. D.I.R.T.= Duration, Intensity, Rate, Time

post #33 of 57

Another thought.

 

If you were not a skier or never took anatomy to understand movements and what we call them.

 

Would most people (weekend warriors) know what you mean by "Dorsiflex"? Say this to a kid. BLANK STARE

 

Bend your ankle can mean many things. Most newer students will say they can't bend their ankle because the boot is too stiff. Dorsiflex will pull your shins against the tongue of the boot, move your knees hips and COM forward. I'm sure most of the instructors will agree that this is not a bad movement that must be untaught.

 

Lifting your forefoot or "toes" inside the boot may not actually flex or bend the boot but it will accomplish the same as Dorsiflexion.

 

Again. you need to know the audience and if it's appropriate.

post #34 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post

  1. Puts the student perpetually in the back seat, every turn, every time... hips back, pressure on the heels and back of the boots. The reason this happens is because you're lightening the ski by a motion that is affecting the tip of the ski versus the tail of the ski. Not good, and it doesn't require rocket science to realize this.

 

Apparently, I was wrong.

post #35 of 57

I don't teach anymore so you can take the following with the customary grain of salt:

 

I always preferred to teach in a way that had my students discovering how to ski rather than a process that centered around the teaching. I liked to do this in a way that just built upon whatever they already could do and preferably in response to some perceived need. The important questions to ask yourself in this context are those which seek to identify what constitute the core movements and mechanics of skiing. Skiing at all levels is essentially the same. Your students are just skiing at various levels of what can be a long progression. Movements taught at all levels should reflect this.

 

Ski instruction which loses sight of this tends to become a variety of exercises intended not so much to achieve some level of mastery along this progression as a collection of objectives in and for themselves ie ski instruction for ski instruction's sake. While most of these tricks originated with some specific purpose they tend to become something else. You have students focused on lifting their toes up or pressing them down, raising their hands or lowering them or doing this strange thing with their hips or not and the list goes on but all they really wanted to do was learn to ski and to have fun.........

 

post #36 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post

Dorsiflex will pull your shins against the tongue of the boot, move your knees hips and COM forward. I'm sure most of the instructors will agree that this is not a bad movement that must be untaught.

 

Lifting your forefoot or "toes" inside the boot may not actually flex or bend the boot but it will accomplish the same as Dorsiflexion.

 

Again. you need to know the audience and if it's appropriate.


 

I have no problems with dorsiflexion, that's for sure.  You are right, dorsiflexion can help instigate the movements of pulling/holding the foot back to move the knees, hips and COM forwards.   But the 'trick' was suggested as a way through the wedge, which is something totally different.  That's the problem with it.

 

Getting through the wedge is not all that hard. It should not need a 'trick' to make it happen. 

 

Here is another 'trick' to get rid of the wedge:  ski faster.

 

That'll work too, but I won't recommend it!

 

 

post #37 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post

 But the 'trick' was suggested as a way through the wedge, which is something totally different.  That's the problem with it.

 

Getting through the wedge is not all that hard. It should not need a 'trick' to make it happen. 

 

Here is another 'trick' to get rid of the wedge:  ski faster.

 

That'll work too, but I won't recommend it!

 

 

 

This I totally agree with.

 

In the OP's original question "why does it work?", Dorsiflexion to move the COM forward usually causes the skis to track down the hill.. Why? It almost always causes a skier to flatten and release the down hill ski. Should it be done to get past a wedge, Probably not.. Again. proper use of the movement to encourage a specific out come. It's not always the best but for a specific audience it might just be the ticket.

 

Probably should not be called a "trick" but just another task or cue that can help or hinder depending on if it's used properly.

 

One of those things that's very hard to do in a group lesson because as most of the instructors know, if you tell it to one person, the others will most likely try it and it may not be the correct thing for the others in the group.

 

DC

post #38 of 57
Thread Starter 

Wow.   I thought this was a simple question, not an opportunity to open up a wide ranging discussion and ad hominem assaults on anyone who would ever do such a horrible thing as suggest that a student be told to try something that is not a correct technique but may lead to a discovery.

 

As for the fitness of someone who may employ such a horrible means to get a result I will simply say that I have been teaching for many, many years.   I am only a LII and therefore not a DCL, Examiner etc.  Nonetheless I do a good job.   Sometimes using TRICKS is part of that job, particularly if you have students for only an hour.  Anyone concerned about my teaching can IM me and I'll give you all the references you want and from all sorts of students, instructors, clinicians, technical directors and school directors.

 

One poster asked why I would use this horrible trick if I don't know how it works.  Actually, I haven't used it in years but I know it works.  My original post was all about asking WHY -  I was hoping to understand...   You only learn by asking questions.

 

Another poster pointed out that Examiners at LII and LIII exams will ask you how something works and why you are doing it.  This lifting the toes thing is about the only thing that I know of whose underlying mechanics mystify me.  If promotion of dorsiflexion is the answer I'll take that and run for cover before this thread gets any larger.

post #39 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lmandrake View Post

Wow.   I thought this was a simple question, not an opportunity to open up a wide ranging discussion and ad hominem assaults on anyone who would ever do such a horrible thing as suggest that a student be told to try something that is not a correct technique but may lead to a discovery.

 

As for the fitness of someone who may employ such a horrible means to get a result I will simply say that I have been teaching for many, many years.   I am only a LII and therefore not a DCL, Examiner etc.  Nonetheless I do a good job.   Sometimes using TRICKS is part of that job, particularly if you have students for only an hour.  Anyone concerned about my teaching can IM me and I'll give you all the references you want and from all sorts of students, instructors, clinicians, technical directors and school directors.

 

One poster asked why I would use this horrible trick if I don't know how it works.  Actually, I haven't used it in years but I know it works.  My original post was all about asking WHY -  I was hoping to understand...   You only learn by asking questions.

 

Another poster pointed out that Examiners at LII and LIII exams will ask you how something works and why you are doing it.  This lifting the toes thing is about the only thing that I know of whose underlying mechanics mystify me.  If promotion of dorsiflexion is the answer I'll take that and run for cover before this thread gets any larger.

we have not had a good, old fashioned "qnus" (subtract one letter) v the world thread in quite some time! 

 

go ahead, grab a comfortable chair, sit back and watch!
 

 

pass the pop corn wuddja?? 

 

 

post #40 of 57

I was tricked a couple of weeks ago. Why it works is probably the same whether you are in a wedge or parallel. Lifting the toes up against the top of the boot moves your shin so that if were talking about the right foot it pressures the two o'clock corner of your boot, engages the outside edge of the ski and initiates a turn. Is this what the OP wanted to know?

post #41 of 57

<forgot to hit submit & didn't see Jimmy's post in the meantime>

 

So I was taught this movement by a very long time instructor at Keystone who also worked with the Mahres for many years when they ran their clinic there.  When I lift my toes, my big toe is the strongest muscle, and it tends to overpower the rest of my toes.  So the act of lifting all of my toes tends to very subtly cause my ankle to roll to the little-toe side.  That roll is just enough of a tip to engage the ski's self-steering effect and cause a turn. 


Edited by geoffda - Thu, 05 Feb 09 20:40:40 GMT
post #42 of 57

If what you want to cause to occur is to cause the student to move to the inside of the intended turn and thus to flatten the inside ski and increase the edge angle of the out side ski why don't you just ask him or her to do that? Better yet, why not ask the student to do that while actually making a wedge turn and in response to the forces that were tending to pull him to the outside of the turn? Why get into the whole toe thing at all?

 

FWIW I can ski straight down the hill in a wedge or not and lift my toes up and press down on them and it seems to have no effect at all, except upon my toes. Why not just figure out what you're trying to accomplish before using a trick you do not understand and whose consequences seem uncertain? I'm sorry if this seems like a put down. Its not meant to be.

post #43 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by oisin View Post

If what you want to cause to occur is to cause the student to move to the inside of the intended turn and thus to flatten the inside ski and increase the edge angle of the out side ski why don't you just ask him or her to do that? Better yet, why not ask the student to do that while actually making a wedge turn and in response to the forces that were tending to pull him to the outside of the turn? Why get into the whole toe thing at all?

 

FWIW I can ski straight down the hill in a wedge or not and lift my toes up and press down on them and it seems to have no effect at all, except upon my toes. Why not just figure out what you're trying to accomplish before using a trick you do not understand and whose consequences seem uncertain? I'm sorry if this seems like a put down. Its not meant to be.

Have you ever told someone to "do this", and have the respond, "I AM" over and over..

 

then change the way you say it and "Lightbulbs!"

 

This is the whole idea about this process. Not that we teach everyone using this method. It's another way to tell someone to Dorsiflex.

 

How about the term Abduct or Adduct? Almost all instructors know what these 2 terms mean. Do most students? How do you tell them in terms they might understand.

How about plantar flex?. Do you ever tell a student to do this? Maybe, in a very specific situation. Do we ski pointing our toes. (can you say back seat?) but if you want a student to drive the tips of his skis into a trough as the roll over the top of a mogul, sometimes it's just the image you need.

 

Think about how would you explain to someone to get their feet apart. You may tell them over and over again to put some air between their feet. and it never occurs to them that this may have to do with the upper legs and what they are doing..  Cowboy turns may fix the problem but do we ski cowboy turns all the time.. NO it's a means to an end for a specific problem.. and not always the same problem.

 

 

Just some examples and why we need to keep our minds open and keep learning.

 

KEEP ASKING QUESTIONS!

 

 

 

post #44 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffda View Post

<forgot to hit submit & didn't see Jimmy's post in the meantime>

 

So I was taught this movement by a very long time instructor at Keystone who also worked with the Mahres for many years when they ran their clinic there.  When I lift my toes, my big toe is the strongest muscle, and it tends to overpower the rest of my toes.  So the act of lifting all of my toes tends to very subtly cause my ankle to roll to the little-toe side.  That roll is just enough of a tip to engage the ski's self-steering effect and cause a turn. 


Edited by geoffda - Thu, 05 Feb 09 20:40:40 GMT

 

You are correct that by lifting the ball of the big toe you are creating a subtle roll of the ankle to the little toe side effecting a tip of the ski into a carved turn. This action comes from flexion of the toe extensors (extensor digitorum longus) on the lateral side of the lower leg which are much smaller muscles than the hip joint rotators and therefore finer in their actions. Try this maneuver in making a ski tip from the big to the little toe edge and you will see that it requires less muscle effort to effect the same result as hip rotation but in a more subtle manner. 

post #45 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by oisin View Post

If what you want to cause to occur is to cause the student to move to the inside of the intended turn and thus to flatten the inside ski and increase the edge angle of the out side ski why don't you just ask him or her to do that? Better yet, why not ask the student to do that while actually making a wedge turn and in response to the forces that were tending to pull him to the outside of the turn? Why get into the whole toe thing at all?

 

FWIW I can ski straight down the hill in a wedge or not and lift my toes up and press down on them and it seems to have no effect at all, except upon my toes. Why not just figure out what you're trying to accomplish before using a trick you do not understand and whose consequences seem uncertain? I'm sorry if this seems like a put down. Its not meant to be.

Have you ever told someone to "do this", and have the respond, "I AM" over and over..

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes many times but not quite so literally. I had got them to do wedge turns. this involves turning the legs while skiing in a wedge. I asked them to tell me (while making these wedge turns) "did they feel more force upon one leg or the other while making these turns?" (Students indicate the "outside" leg.) "Great!" Why don't you try "strengthening that leg (helps with the force) when you do your next wedge turn? (What do you mean "strengthen"?) (Instructor makes a "Jack Armstrong" with his upraised bicep) "Oh, I think I get it." (Students practice creating that sensation in the leg while stationary) "Now make another wedge turn and try in out." "OK, that feels good and seems to make the turn go a little better. What else should I be doing?" "Try lengthening or straightening that leg while strengthening." (Student practices lengthening the leg before setting off "piece of cake") "What should I do with the other leg ?" "Why don't you just relax it a bit since it isn;t really doing as much work?" Students practice doing this while making their nice balanced wedge turns. "What else should I be doing?" "Nothing really, just make sure you are continuing to turn BOTH legs as we've been doing." (Student begins moving to the inside while making wedge turns at increasing speeds, outside ski edge angle increases and produces more force, inside ski flattens and makes turning that ski easier. Students discover active steering of their inside leg produces a "matching".effect. Students are now producing a rudimentary wedge christy, perhaps even discovering an almost "parallel ski technique. Student says: "Wow this is so easy". You've probably screwed yourself because your students are so enraptured by the ease of skiing in control and the sense of freedom that they will likely emark upon an extended period of self learning. Absent any distructive imput from a well meaning fellow skiing acquaintance they will usually do quite well and you won't see them in your classfor quite some time.

 

Next week you see them from the chairlift skiing the top of the mountain. They wave, a great big smile on their face(s).

(spelling!)
Edited by oisin - Fri, 06 Feb 09 00:30:17 GMT


Edited by oisin - Fri, 06 Feb 09 00:31:19 GMT


Edited by oisin - Fri, 06 Feb 09 00:53:41 GMT


Edited by oisin - Fri, 06 Feb 09 00:54:12 GMT
post #46 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by oisin View Post

Yes many times but not quite so literally. I had got them to do wedge turns. this involves turning the legs while skiing in a wedge. I asked them to tell me (while making these wedge turns) "did they feel more force upon one leg or the other while making these turns?" (Students indicate the "outside" leg.) "Great!" Why don't you try "strengthening that leg (helps with the force) when you do your next wedge turn? (What do you mean "strengthen"?) (Instructor makes a "Jack Armstrong" with his upraised bicep) "Oh, I think I get it." (Students practice creating that sensation in the leg while stationary) "Now make another wedge turn and try in out." "OK, that feels good and seems to make the turn go a little better. What else should I be doing?" "Try lengthening or straightening that leg while strengthening." (Student practices lengthening the leg before setting off "piece of cake") "What should I do with the other leg ?" "Why don't you just relax it a bit since it isn;t really doing as much work?" Students practice doing this while making their nice balanced wedge turns. "What else should I be doing?" "Nothing really, just make sure you are continuing to turn BOTH legs as we've been doing." (Student begins moving to the inside while making wedge turns at increasing speeds, outside ski edge angle increases and produces more force, inside ski flattens and makes turning that ski easier. Students discover active steering of their inside leg produces a "matching".effect. Students are now producing a rudimentary wedge christy, perhaps even discovering an almost "parallel ski technique. Student says: "Wow this is so easy". You've probably screwed yourself because your students are so enraptured by the ease of skiing in control and the sense of freedom that they will likely emark upon an extended period of self learning. Absent any distructive imput from a well meaning fellow skiing acquaintance they will usually do quite well and you won't see them in your classfor quite some time.


So going back to what needs to be unlearned. In this senario when the student finally begins to carve and gets on firm pack or even ice, they head around the turn and the outside ski begins to chatter or skid.. pushing harder or "strengthening" that leg just makes it worse not better. in this advanced level we teach people to let up or don't push so hard. Give up some of that pressure...

 

No matter what we teach or use for our cues, there is somewhere in skiing that it doesn't help but hinder.

 

Again.. know your audience, make sure they understand this is not the only skill  but just one more to help you find what works..

 

I bring up again, Plantar flexion.. In my skiing where it is right now, one of the things Robin Barnes told me to play with is to plantar flex just as I pass through the transistion of a turn.

 

Everything we teach in skiing tells us that will put us in the back seat. For what she was trying to get to change in my skiing, it was exactly what I needed to make a break through. Teach this to everyone? NO WAY. for an instructor to see something like that as a deficiency and add it back into one's skiing for a specific problem, by all means. That's what separates the great instructors from the rest of us.

 

DC

post #47 of 57
 

So going back to what needs to be unlearned. In this senario when the student finally begins to carve and gets on firm pack or even ice, they head around the turn and the outside ski begins to chatter or skid.. pushing harder or "strengthening" that leg just makes it worse not better. in this advanced level we teach people to let up or don't push so hard. Give up some of that pressure...

 

 

 

Everything we teach in skiing tells us that will put us in the back seat. For what she was trying to get to change in my skiing, it was exactly what I needed to make a break through. Teach this to everyone? NO WAY. for an instructor to see something like that as a deficiency and add it back into one's skiing for a specific problem, by all means. That's what separates the great instructors from the rest of us.

 

DC


 

DC

I think you're missing the point. This is the movement pattern that is common to upper level skiing. Lengthening the leg, moving to the inside and creating increased edge angle in response to the forces we experience in a turn. This is also mechanically correct in an advanced racing turn on just about the the hardest snow there is short of blue ice. Obviously managing pressure is an additional skill that we all  build upon these fundamentals as we advance. Developing your balance is an enhancement as well that is built upon fundamentals. Developing balance on skis is almost the first skill a beginning skier works on. Just because it requires contrinuous improvement does not mean that it is incorrect or something to be unlearned, justthe opposite.

 

Lateral learning is a tremendous asset to developing advanced skiing skills. I doubt if there is anything we can safely do on skis that will not prove applicable in some situation. these do not require unlearning at all. This is different though from developing fundamentally incorrect movement patterns as your core skiing behavior. Lateral skills are like the ornaments we hang about the tree but not to be confused with the tree itself.

 

 

 

 

post #48 of 57

I have one more thing to say here (and then will he please shut the * up?).

 

 The lesson I wrote about above is only a somewhat generalized version of a teaching strategy I've used a number of times. I doubt if I ever taught a level 2 lesson exactly that way nevermind over and over. I doubt if I ever taught two lessons the same way ever. Only in the most general way does one lesson resemble another. You need to be constantly attuned to your students and your teaching environment, constantly ready to modify your approach to meet their needs. Having a bag of "tricks" is key to that. I don't doubt that aasking a student to raise his toes can be effective in some circumstance. I just don't know what it is intended to achieve or when it might prove useful. That was the point I intended to make regarding this "trick" ie knowing what it is good for and when to use it. I wouldn't hang my hat on it but I wouldn't hesitate to use it if I understood what it was useful  for.  Please don't think this wxample is supposed to be the "correct" way to teach. There is no formula for  teaching nor any substitute for understanding what you are doing in all the complexity that teaching effectively entails.

 

As for the truly "great ones", if I understood what made them so .I would not be referring to them in the third person.

post #49 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by oisin View Post

You need to be constantly attuned to your students and your teaching environment, constantly ready to modify your approach to meet their needs. Having a bag of "tricks" is key to that. I don't doubt that aasking a student to raise his toes can be effective in some circumstance. I just don't know what it is intended to achieve or when it might prove useful. That was the point I intended to make regarding this "trick" ie knowing what it is good for and when to use it. I wouldn't hang my hat on it but I wouldn't hesitate to use it if I understood what it was useful  for.  Please don't think this wxample is supposed to be the "correct" way to teach. There is no formula for  teaching nor any substitute for understanding what you are doing in all the complexity that teaching effectively entails.

 

As for the truly "great ones", if I understood what made them so .I would not be referring to them in the third person.

Ding Ding Ding..

 

The OP was asking how it worked and why. Trying to learn and understand the mechanics to decide if it's something they want to add to their "bag of tricks"

My understanding of the lift the toes "trick" is it's another way to get someone to dorsiflex and to move their COM forward and into the turn. Wedge or parallel it works.

 

Dorsiflexion is a hard concept for some people. bend the ankle, lift the toes or front of the feet, Pull the feet back, etc... All done properly will cause a person to pressure the shins and move the COM forward.

 

 

 

 

post #50 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post

The OP was asking how it worked and why. Trying to learn and understand the mechanics to decide if it's something they want to add to their "bag of tricks"

My understanding of the lift the toes "trick" is it's another way to get someone to dorsiflex and to move their COM forward and into the turn. Wedge or parallel it works. 

 

 

 

It's not the dorsiflexion that makes the turn, it's the side-effect that occurs in the beginning student:

 

 Lightening the inside ski, causing weight transfer.

 

Which points out  beautifully why tricks are bogus - their mechanics are misunderstood.  People can teach them, get the effect they want and blow the whole day by describing the mechanics incorrectly.

 

It is better to stay with focussed skiing movements and solid movement patterns than it is to teach through side-effects.


Edited by BigE - Fri, 06 Feb 09 13:10:45 GMT
post #51 of 57

Big E wrote:

 

"Which points out  beautifully why tricks are bogus - their mechanics are misunderstood.  People can teach them, get the effect they want and blow the whole day by describing the mechanics incorrectly.

 

It is better to stay with focussed skiing movements and solid movement patterns than it is to teach through side-effects."

 

I've often thought it was more important to teach instructors skiing mechanics than teaching exercises. Any reasonably creative person can devise his own strategies for enabling his students to achieve good movement patterns if he/she understands what he is trying to accomplish. Nevertheless every instructor clinic/exam I've ever been in has been full of "trick" teaching. People come back from the clinics and try to parrot the exercises without any clear understanding of what they were intended to accomplish or when they were appropriate. Ron LeMaster's book on skiing mechanics is worth a hundred bogus clinics.


Edited by oisin - Fri, 06 Feb 09 16:23:47 GMT
post #52 of 57

Oisin

 

Truer words have never been spoken!

 

 

post #53 of 57

oisin: Ron LeMaster's book on skiing mechanics is worth a hundred bogus clinics.

 

Some will argue that much of what Ron LeMaster says is bogus, especially when it comes to racing. The fact is that one can think of everything as a trick. Some are more relevant to a specific movement, some are more relevant for an individual to better understand what to do.

 

If lifting the toes is a trick, then one could argue that lifting and tipping your new inside foot is also a "trick". Perhaps for others the trick is to tip the new inside knee. Skiing is not an exact science.

post #54 of 57

Lifting the toes to transfer weight in a wedge turn is a trick.  It's not part of the movement pattern that you want to see being developed to create weight transfer in the wedge.

 

Lifting and tipping the inside ski to start a turn is not a trick, since it is the movement pattern that some instructors want to develop to initiate a turn.
 

post #55 of 57

If lifting the toe helps one flatten the ski then what would be the problem? I see more difference in naming conventions than the effect and end result.

 

I remember when we were told to press with the ball of the foot to keep the shovel engaged. Everytime I did that it opened up my ankle and pushed me in the back seat. The lifting of the toes was an excellent movement to close the ankle and truly stay in contact with the tongue. Call it trick or a movement, but it made sense to me. Either way, it works very well.


Edited by TomB - Fri, 06 Feb 09 21:58:50 GMT
post #56 of 57

Every "trick" and every strategy only is useful and effective within a narrow context of other factors. That is usually what fails to come acros when someone is describing how well something they use works. Some people can see what they have to do and then reproduce it, some can come to understand the movement and do it. Most have to be lead or coerced into making the intended movement and come to internalise the feeling of it. Tricks or strategies or various devices will always be important tools of ski teaching if they are used when and how they are appropriate. This requires an understanding of the mechanics of what you are trying to achieve in their skiing. All these things can be misused.

 

A good example is the lightening or lifting of the inside ski that has been mentioned here as a means to create a turn. If you do either of things and no other force is present then one of two things will happen:

 

1. The student will fall down

 

2. The student will move his or her weight over the outside ski in order to maintain balance.(most likely)

This is something you don't want to happen. Students who learn to turn by transferring weight to the outside ski are usually the ones who are later bedeviled by an inablility to release the edge of the inside ski and initiate the turn.

 

The reason the drill can work is that when sufficient force is generated by turning and the edging of the outside ski the resulting force provides the missing ingredient to balance against.

So, used with an understanding of what is needed and when it is appropriate, this might be a useful trick to employ. Used improperly the result is to produce unnecessary impediments to a student's progress.

 

I would probably not use this drill at all or at least restrict it to improving the performance of someone who already skis and turns fairly well ie in order to alter a skiers weight distrution in his turns but thats just my personal bias.

 

post #57 of 57

You have to be really careful when lifting your toes as this automatically transfers yiour weight backwards. So when you do it ensure that your weight remains forward.

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