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"Reaching" turns?

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
I encountered these in Eastern US, but found our trainers in colorado hadn't heard of them, and suspected they were a Bad Thing.

I'd read somewhere that after achieving carved short turns, "reaching" short turns were the next thing up the ladder. The reach is the hand that will do the next pole plant, reaching forward as the current turn happens. The hand and arm are moving with the legs, so that the whole outside of the body is moving with the edge of the ski as it progresses through the turn. It feels very strong and locked, and causes a deeper carving movement.
Our trainer at Mount Snow knew about them, and we did a few runs cranking these things out.

I guess the big difference is the upper body is moving with the ski, rather than being separate from it. It feels like it might be related to a race style.

But in Colorado, when I asked about them, Deep Suspicion and it was evident that they'd never heard the term or encountered the style.

Any thoughts?
post #2 of 19
actually ant,
We have talked in the past about "reaching short turns" It's not so much reaching for the pole plant as much as reaching out across the hill with your CM and legs.

Here's a link to an article Scott Mathers wrote about the reaching short turn..

reaching short turns.

I think I felt a few good ones in my travels. Still working on them.

Have fun.
post #3 of 19
By the way, Scott Mathers is the trainer and SSD (I think) at Alta, UT. I hope to get another lesson with him whe we are up there next season. I took a group lesson that he was teaching a few years back and got to ask him about these turns and we had fun chatting about them.
post #4 of 19
Thread Starter 
That's an excellent article! That bloke knows how to explain things clearly, and yeah, that's exactly what I was asking about.
I must have read someone paraphrasing this article, because they mentioned the old braking turns as being below carved turns (short turns are my favourites).

These reaching turns felt very strong to me. Not hard to do, per se, but it required concentration to keep them going, whereas the normal short turns with the legs working under the body can be done while you are dreaming about something else! Sometimes I'd set myself the job of doing these from the top of Keystone to the bottom, on the Blues, non-stop. When I'd got them easily in a groomer-width, I'd shorten them again, the goal being to go as slowly as possible, especially on the steeper bits. Good fun.

So, I wonder why the puzzlement from the trainers in Colorado about Reaching Turns?
post #5 of 19
Because you said "ray-cheng tuns".
post #6 of 19
Everyone I know in RM would know what you are talking about Ant. The Mathers article was a large subject when I was there. I am mystified why you stumped the guys at Keystone...mebee it was the Ozification!
post #7 of 19
Reaching short turns are one end of the spectrum with braking short turns at the other end.

An easy way to teach these is to find a line in the snow down the fall line (a cat grooming track works well). A "normal" short turn has you planting your pole right on the line (presumably the same all the way down), a braking short turn plants BEFORE the line, and a reaching short turn plants AFTER the line. The radius of the turn stays approximately the same in all.

I can't take credit for it and I can't remember where I read that, but it works well and is easy to see on the snow.

Bob
post #8 of 19
Please correct this if it is not accurate: In a short swing turn, the Center of Mass stays in the fall line. In a short reaching turn, the Center of Mass crosses the fall line. Second: It has been my understanding that the Short Reaching Turn is not intended to be a pure carved turn and in fact has a skidding element that is not immaterial - is that correct?
post #9 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by oboe:
Please correct this if it is not accurate: In a short swing turn, the Center of Mass stays in the fall line. In a short reaching turn, the Center of Mass crosses the fall line. Second: It has been my understanding that the Short Reaching Turn is not intended to be a pure carved turn and in fact has a skidding element that is not immaterial - is that correct?
I read the first part as correct according to the article. The second part about not carving? I suspect as with all turns there is some skidding involved but I believe the intent is to be as close to a pure carve as possible. I suspect anything else might prove to be a problem because when you are in the belly of the turn you are generating some pretty wicked G's
post #10 of 19
There certainly are more G forces because you go longer before turning, and these might make it harder to carve, but, well done, there should be subtantial carving going on.

Have you ever done "lane changes" One, two, three, four, fiiiiiiiiive. The first turn into the new lane is a reaching short turn.

bob
post #11 of 19
Thread Starter 
Yeah, there are more G forces in these. They are very muscular-feeling short turns, the ski bites the snow hard, you are really scooping into it. your body/CM is lined up over the edge that's doing the work.

And I'll have you rude lot know that whenever someone imitated my accent, it sounded very English! So there.

I'm relieved to learn that these turns are officially OK.
post #12 of 19
Ant,

Is it you that has the accent, or do you speak correctly and all us Americans have the accent????

Bob
post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by oboe:
Please correct this if it is not accurate: In a short swing turn, the Center of Mass stays in the fall line. In a short reaching turn, the Center of Mass crosses the fall line. Second: It has been my understanding that the Short Reaching Turn is not intended to be a pure carved turn and in fact has a skidding element that is not immaterial - is that correct?
The "reaching turn" is an outcome of the shorter shaped skis that allow you to get you skis way out from under your body, at relatively slow speeds. To get your skis out there it is quite important to have a highly carved turn, otherwise the skis could slide out.

Also the CM should remain close to the fall line and the skis should be moving further out (compared to traditional turns).
post #14 of 19
Thread Starter 
according to teh Rest of the World, the american accent is extremely strong, and very identifiable. You guys can utter one word, and everyone knows where you're from!
post #15 of 19
G'day sheila, streuth, you're right about those cobbers in the US!

S
post #16 of 19
Quote:
Also the CM should remain close to the fall line and the skis should be moving further out (compared to traditional turns).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I could have mis heard Scott when I talked to him but I think the CM actually travels across the hill with the legs reaching even farther out into the turn in a reaching turn.

I'll ask him again if I get a chance to ski with him next season.

[ June 15, 2002, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: dchan ]
post #17 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Wear the fox hat ?:
G'day sheila, streuth, you're right about those cobbers in the US!

S
...and when I was in the UK, I had to argue to get teh VAT off in shops, because they thought I was a Brit. So there. (although the scots knew I was some kind of sassenach).

I am pretty sure we *never* used the word "cobber". either. For some reason, whenever foreigners try to "do australian", what they do is Cockney.
post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by dchan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Also the CM should remain close to the fall line and the skis should be moving further out (compared to traditional turns).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I could have mis heard Scott when I talked to him but I think the CM actually travels across the hill with the legs reaching even farther out into the turn in a reaching turn.

I'll ask him again if I get a chance to ski with him next season.
</font>[/quote]You are right dchan. The CM will travel over the fall line (back and forth), but my impression was that you want to remain relatively close to the fall line and let the skis really swing out.

[ June 17, 2002, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: TomB ]
post #19 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by ant:

I am pretty sure we *never* used the word "cobber". either. For some reason, whenever foreigners try to "do australian", what they do is Cockney.
Nah ant - cobbers are those caramel & chocolate lollies aren't they???

Yeah the accent bit - Meryl Streep in that stupid movie about the Chamberlains... :
Hmmm - they MUST have the accent - our actors can speak like them in movies but they can't drop their accent to speak like us
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