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Analyze This

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

 

This was taken just before Jeff biffed it.    Amazingly, the Ever Static Skier (me) did not fall. 

 

I'm working on several things:

 

Hands in front.

Center, center, center!!!

Get Forward!

Bend a little.

Quiet upper body (I rotate).

post #2 of 29

You look just fabulous. No really after that crash in Idaho your a trooper. Good to see on skis again.

post #3 of 29
Thread Starter 

I am trying.  I still have a modicum of fear.  Got some helpful hints for improvement?

post #4 of 29

Hey Bonni, looking good!  You're doing well on meeting your objectives.  You're nicely center balanced on the fore/aft plane, and have a nice upright/athletic stance. Your upper body and hands look quiet and calm.  You're very square to your skis, which is fine, because there's no rotation happening.  

 

So what to work on next?  Turn shape and type.  Watch your video, and look at how quickly you go from turn start (skis pointing across the slope) to turn apex (skis pointng straight down the falline).  It's very rushed, and as such your skis get very sideways to the direction your traveling, and you leave a wide skid track.  It's called pushing/pivoting/tail tossing/rushing/etc.  It's good for speed control, but there are other ways, and you should work on developing them.  Try to lengthen  out the first half of your turn from initiation to apex/falline.  Turn so slow as though trying to feel every individual degree of direction change.  Try counting out the top half of the turn, and see how high a count you can get to before getting to the apex. 

 

Then the bottom half of the turn.  In the turns on the video you're ending them at about 45 degrees to the falline.  Try holding onto them longer.  The longer you keep turning, the more speed you will bleed off, and that can be your substitute speed control tool.  When done well it will feel like a rollercoaster ride;  speeding up through the top half of the turn, and slowing down through the bottom half.  These turns will feel much smoother and flowing to you, and the roller coaster ride is fun once you learn how to shed whatever amount of the extra speed you don't want in the bottom of the turn via  holding onto the turn. 

 

Finally, as you make these turns keep an eye on your tracks.  See how narrow and consistent you can make them all the way through each turn.  

 

That should give you some things to work on.  Later you should work on expanding your balance comfort zone too.  There's a ton of stuff to work on there, that everyone could benefit from.  Anyway, nice skiing, and nice progress. 

post #5 of 29
Thread Starter 

Thanks, Rick!  This is exactly what I need!

 

I've been told that I never finish a turn.   It's true, I know it.  There's something scary about finishing a turn in the East on narrow runs with kids zipping past you and jockeying for position behind you trying to find room to speed past you.  That's why I like night skiing........no peeps.

 

I'll work on finishing turns.   And I'll remember to have fun, too.

post #6 of 29

Considering all you've been through, congrats!

post #7 of 29

Bonni, did you dye your hair?!?

 

 

 

 

post #8 of 29
Thread Starter 

I did.    I got tired of all the dumb blonde jokes. 

My helmet and hair match. 


Edited by Bonni - Wed, 04 Feb 09 03:36:44 GMT
post #9 of 29

Geez Bonni, pretty smooth for anyone let alone someone with steel in their leg.

 

I think Rick said everything you need to achive what you ask. There's no sense adding anything.

 

( That Rick, he's so smart)

post #10 of 29
Thread Starter 

tee hee.   There's no titanium in my leg anymore, Lars.   I had the whole shebang removed March 18, 2008.   Nothing but holey and hollow bone holding me up (hence, part of the reason for fear).

post #11 of 29

Bonnie, you are moving forwards and you are turning showing good balance. Thats good. However, I have some suggestions for you. Rick gave you many good pointers but I have to dissagree with him conserning the rotation part. Your overly square stance and your total lack of upper and lower body separation makes your hips rotate towards the outside of the turn causing your skis to loose edge grip and overly skid. What you need to do is to create functional upper and lower body separation and learn how to angulate and counter with your upper body. Once you learn to do this you will automatically start weighting your outside ski and your edging and edge angles will improve. Right after transition. This will make your turn shapes rounder and cause less eccessive skidding after apex as in wind shield wiper turns and you will start to evenly brush your turns insted.

post #12 of 29
Thread Starter 

We were working on this in our Monday women's clinic........doing some 'teapot' drills without poles.   This video was taken before that class.

 

What do you mean by 'overly square' stance?   I'm not sure what that means.

post #13 of 29

Hi Bonni,

I also think Rick's comments are pretty on target, and I see the same thing TDK6 does. By "overly square stance" he means that your body is always facing where your skis are pointing. If you let your legs turn more across the hill then your body, you'll develop what we call counter rotation. You can get a feel for this during a chair ride. While on the chair point both skis to the left, then to the right. Repeat this motion and imagine you are skiing down hill.  Because you are sitting on your butt your hips and upper body will be held stable facing your direction of travel while the legs and skis turn.

 

Adding this movement to your sking will allow you "finish your turns" (I prefer to say turn your skis farther across the fall line), gain speed control through turn shape, and maybe helps with the fear issue by allowing you to face downhill while your legs do the turning.

 

Enjoy!

Kazooski

post #14 of 29

I hate to do this, for fear of sidetracking Bonni's thread, but I will because I think it's important. 

 

Bonni, skiing square means that your body is facing the same direction of your skis.  Upper/lower body separation means the skis point one way and the body points another.  Generally, it means the body points to the outside of the turn, and counter is created. 

 

Before anything is advocated or strived for, it has to be understood, and there has to be a definate purpose for doing it.  Counter does a few things for us. 

 

1) It serves to assist in pronating the outside foot.  That directs pressure to the big toe side of the outside foot, and help to solidly balance on and engage the turning edge of the outside ski.  A very good thing. 

 

2) It allows for more effective angulation by allowing forward flexion at the waist to move body mass toward the outside foot, and aid in maintaining outside ski balance.  This is helpful, because we have much more range of motion flexing forward at the waist than we do flexing laterally. 

 

3) At the end of the turn it assists in redirecting the skis into the falline for a quick change of direction.  This is why you see much more end of the turn counter being used when skiers are doing pivoted entry turns than when doing arc to arc.  When I get a chance I'll drag some photos in here to show what I mean. 

 

OK, back to you Bonni.  At some point learning upper/lower body separation will be a good thing to do, but this is not the time.  Here's why.  Look at the listed uses above.  Here's why they don't really currently apply:

 

#1,,,, It takes very little counter to pronate the outside foot.  Most would think the position skiing rather square. 

 

#2,,, You are currently working on steering your turns.  Steered turns are best done on lower edge angles, As such little angulation is needed.  When you progress to carving angualation will come more into need and play, and becoming more upper/lower separated and more countered will become more necessary.  At this point it would simply represent becoming contorted to create a look.  Maintain that strong position you currently have for the time being.  Steering is all about employing the legs to do the work of turning.  That best accomplished from the good stance you currently have.  Removing the rushed entry is then just a trick of the mind,,, overcoming the habit of and feeling that you need to rush.  Becoming comfortable with the acceleration that comes from not rushing to escape the falline at the start of the turn.  Coming to enjoy the sensation.

 

#3,,, this is the killer,,, the thing that will actually work against your learning to eliminate the rushed redirection at the start of the turn you currently have.  The end of the turn counter that upper/lower separation creates actually attempts to pivot the skis into the new turn at the end of a turn.  It's the spring effect.  With upper/lower separation the body is torqued like a spring, wanting to return to directional alignment harmony.  When the turn is ended and the skis engagement with the snow is released, the feet/skis tend to snap back into alignment, and the skis pivot downhill.  At this point that is not what you want. At this point that is what you're trying to eliminate.  This will only serve to make eliminating the pivot/push/rush turn entry a more difficult task.  Also, there's a risk that in trying to recounter for the new turn a counter rotation move will be introduced that will also promote a pivot.  It just adds more challenges to the task of eliminating the pivot. 

 

Why complicate the process when it doesn't need to be?  KISS and work on one skill element at a time.  Stand tall and strong, just as you are, and focus solely on quality steering with the legs.  When you can steer an ultra clean turn from start to finish, in a very narrow skid track, and have totally eliminated the pivoted turn initiation that 97 percent of skiers do for every turn they make, then it will be time to move into carving and steeper terrain where upper/lower separation will be called for.  (provided you've done the balance training I've suggested). 

post #15 of 29

Bonni was looking for this video, so I'll post it here, as it relates to the topic of this thread. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fs2jkOA74o&feature=related

 

 

It shows a general progression of the different stages of learning edge control skills that many skiers go through.  The vast majority of skiers on the slopes are at stage one or two,,, with a pivot and wide track solidly embedded in their default movement patterns. 

 

(Mods, please embed this if you would.  Still learning the new site functions.  Thanks)


Edited by Rick - Wed, 04 Feb 09 17:35:33 GMT
post #16 of 29

Bonnie, good to hear that you have been working in class on stuff I mentioned above. An overly square stance is when your hips and your upper body including shoulders are facing the direction you are skiing all the time. Insted you should try to turn your upper body slightly outwards facing away from the direction you are turning. At the end of the turn your upper body should be facing slightly downhill insted of across the hill. I have seen the tendency in modern ski instructing incl. PSIA to stay very "square". The reason for this is that with modern skis and carving we do not necessarily need to counter that much with our upper body. Also, some dont see the benefit. By my book this is a flaw and it creates problems later on. I have the same tendency.

 

Hands in front?! How about moving your arms out to the side more. Spread them :). The problem with pushing the hands and arms and poles forwards is that when you do that you point your butt backwards in order to compensate for arms moving forwards. I would like for you to have your arms out more to the side and then reach downhill in the fall line for your pole plant. Not next to your ski tips. Just a thaught....

 

Center! Yes, you are center but you need to move your whole upper body a bit forward. That you do by bending the upper part of your back more. Try to hunch over a bit. Now your back is very straight. That will limit you in your movements since you need to fold much more at the waist in order to reach same effect. Your tail wasch at the end of the turn is an indication you are not too far back.

 

Bend a little. Yes, work on that.

 

Quiet upper body. Your upper body is quiet enough. Overly quiet. Thats why you rotate. Your rotation is of the passive sort. Check my first paragraph.

 

t

post #17 of 29
Thread Starter 

All very good stuff, and I've just started work again after being out for a couple of years.   It's amazing what you forget. 

 

I've heard every one of these suggestions from various people, and I know this is the work I need to do.   I need one thing:  PRACTICE!!!   I need the miles now to straighten things out.   I'm trying not to be afraid of MOVING DOWN THE HILL.   Trust me:  at this stage of the game, it's a tough thing to do.

 

I'm feeling stronger every time I go out, and I have a ski buddy who is the same/near same level as me (actually, she's above me, but we boost each other up to try new things), and I'll be skiing a minimum of 3 days a week.   Jackson should prove interesting.   I'l take video at the beginning and the end of that trip and post here.

 

You guy are tops!  Thanks for the suggestions.  

post #18 of 29

Had my last post hang all day as I had to go supervise my 7y son at the local race. He missed the goal gate in his first run LOL! Anyway, good posting Rick. I dont dissagree with you but I would not necessarily skip movements I mentioned even if you have good arguments. We teach a very traditional progression starting with a wedge. Thats where we learn outside ski pressure controll, upper body counter and angulation. BTW, I think that your video is highly relevant for this thread. Bonny should be able to identify her skiing somewhere in there .

post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post

Bonni was looking for this video, so I'll post it here, as it relates to the topic of this thread. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fs2jkOA74o&feature=related

 

 

It shows a general progression of the different stages of learning edge control skills that many skiers go through.  The vast majority of skiers on the slopes are at stage one or two,,, with a pivot and wide track solidly embedded in their default movement patterns. 

 

(Mods, please embed this if you would.  Still learning the new site functions.  Thanks)


Edited by Rick - Wed, 04 Feb 09 17:35:33 GMT


 

post #20 of 29
Thread Starter 

So, if I'm seeing this right, when carving, there is no pole plant involved?  In the last set, she's not using poles.

 

Why bother to Start with them if the ultimate goal is NOT to use them?  I have the most trouble with finding things to do with the damn poles.


Edited by Bonni - Thu, 05 Feb 09 00:54:54 GMT
post #21 of 29

I assume there is a reason that there is NO counter-rotation with the upper body in any of those demos... but I can't figure out what it could be.

post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonni View Post

So, if I'm seeing this right, when carving, there is no pole plant involved? 

Quote:
In the last set, she's not using poles.

She doesn't want to; she doesn't need to, she could.
Quote:

Why bother to Start with them if the ultimate goal is NOT to use them? 

This is a bit of a distraction to what Rick and tdk were saying. However, the poles are there to help you recenter. When you start doing what they're talking about, you might find poles rather helpful.
Quote:
I have the most trouble with finding thing to do with the damn poles.

 

That, I believe.
post #23 of 29

Hi Bonni,

 

Nice skiing.  Rick's suggestions are great.  What may enhance anything you change in your skiing is balancing more over the outside ski throughout the entire turn (especially at the smile or end of the turn).

 

RW

post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonni View Post

So, if I'm seeing this right, when carving, there is no pole plant involved?  In the last set, she's not using poles.

 

Why bother to Start with them if the ultimate goal is NOT to use them?  I have the most trouble with finding thing to do with the damn poles.

 

Hi Bonnie, Glad to see your doing well.

 

I use my poles sometimes and not others. During higher speed carving you don't need to waste the motion. They come in very handy for short radius turns.  Watch other skiers as you ride the lift, see who's doing things better then others. You've been here long enough to know what is right. I learned a lot from watching the race team kids and wanting to get better. I have also learned a lot from taking lessons from higher level skiers (PSIA II & III's) 

 

I know it's hard but don't worry about the leg. It's healed and will support you. I find the better I get the less stress I put on my body.

 

You GO Girl.

 

 

 

 

post #25 of 29
Thread Starter 

Thanks, RW, and Max.   I am GOing.....to the Gathering to practice, practice, practice!

 

Hey, I'm no longer physically sick when I throw on the gear and click in.   I've crossed a line and it's all forward from here.

post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonni View Post

Thanks, RW, and Max.   I am GOing.....to the Gathering to practice, practice, practice!

 

Hey, I'm no longer physically sick when I throw on the gear and click in.   I've crossed a line and it's all forward from here.

 


 

WAY TO GO, Bonni!!!!   Weems will be proud of your accomplishments.

 

I agree totally with Rick's assessment and suggestions.

post #27 of 29

Great job Bonni, particularly given the earthquake that was going on.

 

(sorry skier_j)

 

post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat View Post

Great job Bonni, particularly given the earthquake that was going on.

 

(sorry skier_j)

 


 

sorry!  I was a nervous wreck---I was up next and we all know how that turned out!

post #29 of 29

Hi Bonni,

Regarding pole use. Even if you don't always make pole touches you still benefit from having them. Thery're darn useful in lift lines. I find I use mine more when skiing steeper terrain and doing short radius turns. The pole touch serves as a trigger to start the next turn and can help start the movements that lead to your core moving into the next turn.

 

Also, have you ever watched a tightrope walker? Did they use a long pole to help their balance? Our ski poles enhance balance the same way. Surely to a smaller degree but the influence is still there. 

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