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What to expect to pay to get bindings mounted. - Page 2

post #31 of 58

Well didn't have them do the mounting, for one thing they didnt have Tyrolia jigs.

 

They did a good job resuscitating a family member's very rusty skis, they did a decent job on a base grind on one pair of my skis.  Prices were comparable, turn around was quick.

post #32 of 58

Paid 20 bucks earlier this year to have bindings mounted at Sugar while I waited. Tipped him anouther 20

post #33 of 58

I know people feel if you buy on the internet it's some kind of sin but....If I were running a shop I would be taking advantage of an opportunity to make income where I could, jump on the band wagon and advertise that I'd be happy to tune, mount and check the skis purchased on line or from chain stores that don't have tech departments to do such,and do it for a fair price.  This could be a significant money maker for a store willing to embrace change.  They will bring in large numbers of people to view high mark up clothes and gear....They can sell annual tune packages or just tunes as needed....They can reach out to a customer base that likely would not be heading there in the first place (accept to buy last years gear), as they either already have the knowledge to pick a good ski they like with out the store advice or just don't have money to pay full price for this years gear and are wiling to put up with warranty incoveniences that can happen when purchasing gear needing shipping.

 

Most the stores I'm aware of in the states that snub the person that walks in for a mounting will then sell out for a bulk bargain price all last years gear,  to some other person that will get rid of it on Ebay.  They are taking advantage of the ease of getting rid of gear in the this fashion; they should embrace the results.


Edited by lady_Salina - Wed, 04 Feb 09 00:19:03 GMT
post #34 of 58

Sites like backcountry.com should have listings available of local shop that are Internet purchase friendly and willing to do mounts. This was super handy when buying tires off of tirerack.com. The tire centers don't  seem to mind that you didn't buy the tires there. Heck you can even have the tires shipped direct to the place they will be installed so they are waiting for you.

 

Think about the possibilities there.

post #35 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi View Post

 

BTW, shouldn't sliding integrated bindings onto rails cost a lot less than having to find a jig and drill for bindings on flat skis? I realize that the testing and liability are the same, but the integrated bindings were SO simple to mount. That's what really got me, the $60 quote for so little work.


Edited by Virtus_Probi - Tue, 03 Feb 09 19:24:01 GMT

Testing and inspection typically takes more time than mounting, with the exception of special mounts.

 

The idea that mounting bindings with rails is "quicker" than mounting bindings with jigs is ignorance displayed by people who haven't done it.  Normal jig mounts are extremely quick, and never require a rubber mallet.  Rail mounts often are a pain in the ass.   They are also often less straightforward, and achieving a particular nonstandard result might require iterative reinstallation.

If it is so little work, why don't you just do it at home and just assume your bindings would have tested just fine.  A lousy assumption for some new and most old bindings, but hey, you're cheap.

post #36 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi View Post

 

BTW, shouldn't sliding integrated bindings onto rails cost a lot less than having to find a jig and drill for bindings on flat skis? I realize that the testing and liability are the same, but the integrated bindings were SO simple to mount. That's what really got me, the $60 quote for so little work.


Edited by Virtus_Probi - Tue, 03 Feb 09 19:24:01 GMT

Testing and inspection typically takes more time than mounting, with the exception of special mounts.

 

The idea that mounting bindings with rails is "quicker" than mounting bindings with jigs is ignorance displayed by people who haven't done it.  Normal jig mounts are extremely quick, and never require a rubber mallet.  Rail mounts often are a pain in the ass.   They are also often less straightforward, and achieving a particular nonstandard result might require iterative reinstallation.

If it is so little work, why don't you just do it at home and just assume your bindings would have tested just fine.  A lousy assumption for some new and most old bindings, but hey, you're cheap.


 

Are we talking about the same thing? My skis came with rails on them...I just had to snap the brakes in, slide the heel and toe together, slide the unit on the rail, and put a single screw in. Would take me less than five minutes to do again, and maybe two for an experienced tech. I learned about forward pressure here and it was trivial to check, after an initial bit on confusion on my part.

I did do it at home, and I am cheap about things like that. Not letting people into my wallet unless I want them there allowed me to buy a nice condo where I like to ski, thank you very much. No shop has a right to my money on terms that are not acceptable to me.

post #37 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi View Post

Are we talking about the same thing?

 

No, because you didn't do any testing and inspection at home because it requires special tools.  So you don't actually know whether or not your bindings are properly set.  Which is fine, because you are cheap, and I don't personally care about your bones.

post #38 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi View Post

Are we talking about the same thing?

 

No, because you didn't do any testing and inspection at home because it requires special tools.  So you don't actually know whether or not your bindings are properly set.  Which is fine, because you are cheap, and I don't personally care about your bones.


That's cold..........

post #39 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi View Post

Are we talking about the same thing?

 

No, because you didn't do any testing and inspection at home because it requires special tools.  So you don't actually know whether or not your bindings are properly set.  Which is fine, because you are cheap, and I don't personally care about your bones.


That's cold..........


 

but true

post #40 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi View Post

Are we talking about the same thing?

 

No, because you didn't do any testing and inspection at home because it requires special tools.  So you don't actually know whether or not your bindings are properly set.  Which is fine, because you are cheap, and I don't personally care about your bones.


Guess you weren't smart enough to pick up on the fact that I was referring to your statements about rail mounts often being so hard, which was not my experience in the slightest. Just one data point, but there was really nothing to it in the end.

Get with the program if you're going to try to jump all over people, otherwise you appear a tad slow and dim.

N'kay??

 

Let me guess...you're somehow associated with a shop that's about to fail??

post #41 of 58

That post goes well with your location.  Shop was doing great when I left, thanks for asking.  Lots of snow and happy skiers.


 You seem to assume mounting bindings with a jig would take longer than the couple minutes you assume it would take someone competent to mount a ski with rails.  This would be another pair of ignorant assumptions on your part...don't let me stop you while you're on a roll.

 

BTW, I prefer careful to slow.  Whatever floats your iceberg.

post #42 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post

That post goes well with your location.  Shop was doing great when I left, thanks for asking.  Lots of snow and happy skiers.


 You seem to assume mounting bindings with a jig would take longer than the couple minutes you assume it would take someone competent to mount a ski with rails.  This would be another pair of ignorant assumptions on your part...don't let me stop you while you're on a roll.

 

BTW, I prefer careful to slow.  Whatever floats your iceberg.

Since you are in the business, I will accept your contention that it wouldn't take any longer for an experienced worker with the proper tools to install drilled bindings than it would take for him/her to assemble a railed binding system.
 

But, the key phrase here is "the proper tools"...jigs, drills or drill presses, and bits that I don't have. My integrated bindings were assembled with a grand total of one screwdriver. A job that requires special tools and a certain amount of labor will always cost more than one that requires the same amount of labor and a common tool that requires no skill to use.

Since you're an insider, I'll forsake my share of the excrement tossing and ask you some serious questions.

How much does your shop charge to mount bindings with a jig? How long does a typical installation take? Exactly what tools do you use, and what do they cost?

How much for integrated bindings? Railflex 2, for example. What's the labor time? Tools?

If you sell skis and bindings, do you charge less to mount equipment purchased in your store?

How much to test bindings, and how long does that usually take? What equipment is involved?

What do you say to a customer who politely says, "No, thanks," to your prices?

How do you handle things if the job gets botched?

post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi View Post
 

How much does your shop charge to mount bindings with a jig?  Zero for customers purchasing new skis and bindings.  $50 for others, for most mounts.

 How long does a typical installation take?   The entire process is probably median around 35 minutes.  Installation and initial setup is approximately one third of that.  As a specialty retailer, we often perform atypical installations that take much longer...those aren't included in the median time I've just listed...but often are included in the price I've listed.

Exactly what tools do you use, and what do they cost? This is like asking what tools I use to install an alternator.  Depends on the alternator.  The most expensive "tool" would be a calibrated binding testing bench.  Costs run from low four digits to high four digits plus ongoing costs for maintenance, upgrades, and calibration.  Other costs you've neglected include training, certification, and insurance.  I've deleted the followup on integrated bindings because the differences in tools and time are generally trivial.

How much to test bindings, and how long does that usually take? We'll do it while you wait if you need it right away, or overnight if you can wait.  Oh, how long does it take us?  Median, approximately 20 minutes.  25 dollars. This service is included in and required by any mount, btw.

What equipment is involved?  Exactly the same equipment we use when testing new bindings.  There are a variety of manufacturers from Vermont to Austria.  Plus one of three trained and certified techs each with greater than 10 years of experience.

What do you say to a customer who politely says, "No, thanks," to your prices?  Is there anything else I can help you with today?  If I see the customer making an uninformed choice and I think there is a legitimate safety concern (parents who don't ski buying used skis for children without having bindings adjusted, for instance) I will make an effort to inform them of the basics in the most non-condescending and helpful way possible.  But that totally depends on the rapport.

How do you handle things if the job gets botched? Seek to take responsibility for and inform the customer of the issue before the problem leaves the shop, and then solve the problem to the satisfaction of all parties in a timely manner.  The first part of that is the most critical and most often botched in my experience with many shops.  The second part can get expensive, but it is comparatively easy to get right.  Avoiding the issue via quality work is the highest priority at my current shop.

 You may have assembled your bindings with a single screwdriver, but you didn't test them and you have no way of knowing whether or not they are currently set properly according to industry standards and best practices.  It is not vanishingly rare for new bindings to require adjustment from nominal settings, BTW.  Two pair of my personal bindings have in the last year, though I went for many years before that without issues with any of my new bindings.  Used bindings are frequently adjusted from nominal settings at a rate approaching 100% as they age for some models.  Whether or not these adjustments and tests are important depends on the quantity of avoidable risk you are willing to take.

 

That's all off the top of my head, but accurate as far as I know.  If you'd like to know specifics about the costs of consumables like drill bits, there are sites that sell them...but at fairly high retail prices, and without context in terms of unit cost.

post #44 of 58

I appreciate your detailed reply. Thank you.

I think that the RF2 bindings on my new skis are probably way on the easy end for installation...easy enough that there's really no value for me in having a shop do it. Anything more complicated, and the balance would probably tip...the integrated bindings on my old skis certainly APPEAR to be more complicated, though I'd have to mess with them to really know.

But, you are correct that I cannot test them to industry standards on my own. The forward pressure is correct, the boots feel right snapping in (I could tell that something was wrong when I set one binding to 347.5mm instead of 350 at first), and they haven't done anything weird on the mountain, but they are not really tested. People here brought this up when they were helping me and it was on the to-do list, but I just forgot about it, to be honest. I've already had a tune done on the mountain (rocks in the woods) and didn't even think to have it done then.

I called the shop I like in Campton, and they do the testing for $10 ($20 if a remount is required, which seems unlikely in my case). It'll be done.

post #45 of 58

I'd really like this thread to sink away... but there have been some good points, some not so good 'busness advice' and some whining. No one has mentioned the Rhinocerous in the room when it comes to shops mounting gear:

 

If something goes wrong out on the slopes and there is an injury, the shop that mounted the skis is going to be on the hook if a court case arises, NOT the eTailer who sold the ski/ binding.

 

Get rid of contigency fee lawyers and I'll drop the price for a mount. Provide a waiver that takes away ALL liability from me and I'll mount really cheap... as it stands now, walk in with a request for mounting and I'll be nice, I'll get it right (or make it right) but I won't take a loss in the hopes that you buy 'other stuff' from me. That doesn't happen.

 

Ski shops have historically been willing to offer service as a 'loss leader' in the hopes of generating sales in more profitable soft-goods and accessory sales. Times have changed, shops are slowly getting with the program. People still NEED service, but they'll shop around the internet for 'deals' on gear and clothing. Service is now a catagory that needs to at least pay for itself... that means charging more.

post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

... Provide a waiver that takes away ALL liability from me and I'll mount really cheap... as it stands now, walk in with a request for mounting and I'll be nice, I'll get it right (or make it right) but I won't take a loss in the hopes that you buy 'other stuff' from me. That doesn't happen.

 

...

Honestly, I'd sign that waiver for a substantial discount. I'm looking for somebody who knows what he/she is doing and has the right tools for this kind of work, not somebody to be liable in the event something does go wrong. I think that the chance of me getting hurt or killed due to my own incompetence or another skier hitting me and forcing me into a tree is far higher than something happening due to a shop making a mistake.
 

But, whether such a waiver would actually provide the shop with any real legal protection is a question that I can't answer.


Edited by Virtus_Probi - Wed, 04 Feb 09 22:32:06 GMT


Edited by Virtus_Probi - Thu, 05 Feb 09 16:12:20 GMT
post #47 of 58

Funny thing is I remember signing a stack of paperwork with all kids of disclaimers like the back of a lift ticket last time I had a shop mount bindings (long long ago!).  I'd think a big part of the risk a shop takes in doing outside work is should the customer not be happy with the end result regardless of whose fault the problem is having to replace a pair of skis you don't carry sucks.  And, because it happens those potential costs need to be rolled in to the cost charged to all for outside work. 

Maybe a $25.00 take it as you get it no matter what charge and a $75.00 satisfaction guaranteed mounting price system would cover the bases????

post #48 of 58

Auto repair shops make good money doing repairs and when I get in an accident it's only their fault if they really goofed something up and it could be proven etc.  Furnace and air conditioning repairs, likewise.  Even in the finance business we take on significant risks that I don't make a sale on time for a client and prices dropped, their could be a significant loss to the business as it's my responsibility to have it done in a specified time, any loss between the time spam and the sale would have to be made up to the customer.  It's customer service risk.  All these industries pay a form of risk insurance to cover these large losses.  If my company has a few incidents, the cost of this insurance goes up, if we do a good job, the cost of insurance goes down.  I still believe a company geared to ski service could do very well.  I'm not saying you can't make money, but there is currently increasing volumes of money to be made to shops that offer good service at good prices.  Like all other industries.  So, I still say, someone should jump on the band wagon and be a leader and offer the services.

post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by lady_Salina View Post

Auto repair shops make good money doing repairs ...

 

Do me a favor, bring a new quarter panel to your mechanic and ask him for an estimate for 'just an installation'. Get back to me with the response.Finding a mechanic that will install a part they didn't supply is awfully hard to do. Try the same trick at your favorite restaurant, bring your own steak, ask the chef what he charges to 'just heat it up'.

 

I am HAPPY to mount bindings on skis from anyone, I don't care where they came from. My store sells online (we offer FREE MOUNTING for online sales) we also sell on eBay, I have no problem mounting skis that came from a different store or online or eBay... I just refuse to do it for a loss. If you think $50 is too much, then you have no idea what is involved with the entire process.

 

Giving someone 'grief' or attitude for buying gear from a different shop is plain BAD business. I'm just saying that operating at a loss in the hopes of selling something else at a profit is also bad business. A shop should be expected to make a profit off of service work, shouldn't it?

 

 

post #50 of 58

I paid $100.00 to have bindings mounted on a pair of skis purchased online. They had the rail system. I was a little miffed at the time, but now I'm pissed. Looks like I should have shopped around! Ended up buying my wife a pair of skis from the same shop - guess I should have asked for some Vaseline.

 

Recently wore out my welcome at a Scuba shop by having the nerve to purchase dive gear at a substantial discount online. Scuba gear manufacturers make local shops sell gear at certain minimum prices (MAP), which means they can't compete with online vendors. These practices have made a mess of the scuba industry, and I hope the same doesn't happen to the ski industry - or has it?

 

Ben

 

 

post #51 of 58
Thread Starter 

I thought Scubapro was the only dive company that was communist?  They're over priced anyway.

post #52 of 58

Shops should stop hiding the price of mounting a binding on a ski in the price of their skis and bindings.

Shops should charge a reasonable rate for the work that they do.

 

I think I paid slightly over $40 Canadian including all taxes to mount bindings a couple of years ago.  It's nice to send the local shop some work.  I still try to support that shop when I can (eg buying winter coats, out-door related Christmas presents etcetera)

 

I even had an on-rails system put on at the shop a year or two before that, for less money, but I could have easily done it myself - no drilling required.  I thought I may as well preserve the warranty, and I wanted to support another local shop.  That other shop repaid my consideration by doing a crap job tuning my skis and then trying to get me to buy one of their left-over bindings by telling me the type of binding I was after wouldn't be able to be mounted on my skis (a bold faced lie FF17+ on Volants).

 

For $70 bucks, I would buy a bit AND A DRILL and mount it myself; it's not brain surgery.

 

post #53 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lady_Salina View Post

Auto repair shops make good money doing repairs ...

 

Do me a favor, bring a new quarter panel to your mechanic and ask him for an estimate for 'just an installation'. Get back to me with the response.Finding a mechanic that will install a part they didn't supply is awfully hard to do. Try the same trick at your favorite restaurant, bring your own steak, ask the chef what he charges to 'just heat it up'.

 

I am HAPPY to mount bindings on skis from anyone, I don't care where they came from. My store sells online (we offer FREE MOUNTING for online sales) we also sell on eBay, I have no problem mounting skis that came from a different store or online or eBay... I just refuse to do it for a loss. If you think $50 is too much, then you have no idea what is involved with the entire process.

 

Giving someone 'grief' or attitude for buying gear from a different shop is plain BAD business. I'm just saying that operating at a loss in the hopes of selling something else at a profit is also bad business. A shop should be expected to make a profit off of service work, shouldn't it?

 

 

I don't think $50.00 is a terrible price, but I do think a store that wanted to do volumes of service has an opportunity atm, to make good money that way.  Usually a rental/retail shop that has the gear and tune up equipment will charge a bit less if they do mountings.  I have been in the ski industires and along with teaching skiing tuned and monted and worked in a friends shop.  What I object to is the elitest attitude alot take with customers who purchased their gear else where or came up with it elsewhere.  
 

 

I believe those people would not be buying this years full price gear from your store anyhow.  They would be buying last years or two year old gear or demo's as that's their price range and it's almost impossible to find that in a store now as they're all sold to vendors that sell it on line.

 

There was stores that refused to honour pro Deals when I taught skiing and we instructors just didn't recommend those stores.  I think it's the same type of store.  The pro Deals usually involved the store getting a pair of skis plus shipping to replace the ones they gave on the pro deal and they just felt they didn't get enough out of it to make it worth their while.  The fellow that did my pro deals for me every year still gets business from my family and friends that I send in every year, not to mention the people I send to his store for quality boot fittins and trustworthy ski gear information.  I still go skiing with him and say hi when I'm in that area.

 

On the other point, the quarter panel....Last time I needed anything like that it was for an older used vehicle as that's what I typically drove and they were quite happy to take the part I could find at the wreckers and install it (a chrome bumper).  Last time I needed rims on my truck, the shop wanted $200.00 for a used rim they could find a wrecker and I found the same rim on ebay for $50.00 + $30.00 shipping and Good year tire installed it no problem for of less then then $200.00 the one matching rim they could find would have cost.

 

I think it's a situational thing.  I don't know that anyone on line is selling this years gear cheaper then I can buy it at a ski shiop.  I belive people that buy on line are buying only because it's value for something they can use.  They wouldn't be buying from a shop anyhow, unless it was demo's or last years used skis.  As I said, these deals in shops are rare now, they're all sold on line.  I do believe that people will buy other gear from a shop that mounted their skis and get them tuned there and continue an ongoing relationship with them.  Heck, when finances change from them and they can buy the latest and greatest ski, you'll be the first shope they come to.  My 2 cents.  I think a good shop has a big opportunity to change with the times and make a good business more successful by adjusting and changing with the times.  I'm not asking anyone to lose money on something, just work out ways to price it and get volumes and welcome the work.

post #54 of 58

Just wanted to post in another epic Epic thread.  Man -- no shortage of self-righteousness around here. 

post #55 of 58

Your shop will charge a flat rate of something like $80/hour to install that fender.  Brakes, or anything else you want installed.

 

If a ski shop want's to charge me $80 bucks an hour to install bindings, I'm good with that, considering it would take them no more than 20 minutes if they had everything handy.

post #56 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Your shop will charge a flat rate of something like $80/hour to install that fender.  Brakes, or anything else you want installed.

 

If a ski shop want's to charge me $80 bucks an hour to install bindings, I'm good with that, considering it would take them no more than 20 minutes if they had everything handy.


 

Not binding mount but goes to the body shop example....

 

There is a shop around here that charges by the hour for tuning.  They, very prominently, display a sign that says our hourly rate is $XX.XX and essentially that if it is a normal run of the mill routine sharpen and wax it should take about 40 minutes.  Change angles, fix bases from skiing on rocks or other low cover, repair edges or anything like more labor intensive and they'll give you an estimate. 

 

Want a "race tune---all done by hand" ??  thats usually about XX hours of time so do the math first!

 

They did not seem to be lacking work!

 

They heated and fitted my intuitions for 30 something bucks---took well over an hour of the guys time and I did not buy the boots from him---although they had come from that shop.  (I got them NIB from Oboe who did purchase them at this particular shop--just never used them).

 

I'll be bringing more of my service work back to them when I need it. I know it will be at least base grinds for a few pairs at end of season.

post #57 of 58

Any thing over $50 is a rip off.  My local shop charges $30 if you buy the skis somewhere else and $0 if you buy the bindings or the skis at there place.

post #58 of 58


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post

 

 

No, because you didn't do any testing and inspection at home because it requires special tools.  So you don't actually know whether or not your bindings are properly set.  Which is fine, because you are cheap, and I don't personally care about your bones.


 


 

Just as an update, I did get my bindings tested for $10 and I was told that everything was A-OK.

So, I did end up $50 ahead by not paying $60 to my local shop that I will never visit again...but, I took a dumb risk my not getting the bindings tested before I used the skis. Not due to being cheap, but to being careless.

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