|Originally posted by Pierre:
While this is certainly true I don't see how from you're definition that you could have max counter at crossover without being counter rotated with the upper body or have to much tip lead on the old inside ski. I also don't see how you could have minimum counter at the turn apex without excessive banking.
Your first sentence in the above quoteback has me confused. You ARE countered at crossover. You have counter because you are countered. ???? I didn't say you are not countered at crossover. It's the most you will be countered, but it's NOT a LOT (unless it's a skidded short swing, almost blocked, turn).
You can have max angulation with a minimum of counter at the apex of the turn by having MINIMUM counter. Just enough to allow the inside femur to get outside of the CM. It doesn't take much. The outside femur can move even more freely since there is nothing in the way. Still, a MINIMUM of counter helps, as the femur can move forward more easily than sideways out of the hip socket.
Also, too much tip lead is too much tip lead. You need to have your feet under your hips to stay in balance (in the fore/aft plane). There will be some tip lead, but only as little as possible, based on the position of the uphill hip being slightly ahead of the downhill hip. If you were square to the skis at crossover, there would be zero tip lead. Then, to get the torso into a slightly countered position, you would have to rotate the torso into the turn, as opposed to letting the turning skis create the counter, as you have agreed with.
Again, I don't see that we could possibly be disagreeing this much if it were not some sort of symantics issue. I know very well that you DO know what you're talking about. I have to believe that the problem here is a matter of perspective, and that it feels different to you than it does to me, but would look the same on film.
The image that you have given me, is of someone skiing across the fall line, square to their skis. Then, turning their feet, but letting their torso still face across the hill, until the skis are pointed down the fall line. Then, after the skis cross the fall line, the torso whips all the way around to face the trees on the other side of the hill, finally catching up to the skis as the skis are at the end of the turn. Then, they enter the new turn only with the feet, and the torso still facing across the hill in the new direction until the skis get to the fall line again, then the body comes whipping around again. If you consider this image, and view the turn from fall line to fall line, there's a hell of a lot of movement of the torso there. Not exactly economy of motion. But I don't think that's the image you mean to project.