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Trouble skiing uneven terrain and crud?...try carving!

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
Ill pass this along since its probably one of the most important things, to me, that I got from skiing with Bob Barnes at ESA Stowe.

I used to keep a flat ski when terrain got uneven, that was my panic/survival mode, it seemed like the safest and most stable position to be in....wrong. In actuality all that does it let your skis bounce all over the place, get deflected, and require mogul-master knees and Herculean strength to absorb the undulations and the rapid slowing and speeding up that occurs on this type of snow.

When skiing with Bob Idid as he did, and what he did was spend most of the time on his edges especially as the terrain got sloppier. The ski edges cut through all the little bumps and drifts of snow, rendering the ride almost as smooth as a groomer. I have been doing that ever since and I am dramatically better at handling uneven terrain, in fact it no longer phases me, I rip on eveything (but moguls....I'm working on that). Coupled with my new wide, slop skis, I can hang.

Thanks Bob and ESA
post #2 of 18
Great post, thanks!
post #3 of 18
I discovered this for myself a few weeks back when I took myself down an ungroomed, choppy trail that hadnt yet formed moguls.

I got thrown around like crazy trying to skid this way and that to hold on. Then I ponied up some testicular fortitude and decided to try to ski on my edges. Instant control! It wasnt perfect but I learned that day that I can keep much better control in messy terrain if I just work the edges. I wanted to try that again on the same trail later in the day but within only a couple hours it was a huge mogul field. Next time I guess...
post #4 of 18
Those "inconsistent" conditions are always challenging in terms of finding a way to smooth it out.

I've been in situations where trying for too high an edge angle (something I'm notorious for doing) produces forces that the snow conditions can't support, which causes the skis to break loose, they start going sideways, and you're headed for a painful faceplant shortly thereafter.

But like Richie-Rich said... Going for too-little edge also causes problems of the skis "not going the direction they're pointing".

Basically, it can be a highly delicate balance of pressuring and edging to get the skis to slice through the inconsistencies. And because of the very nature of inconsistent conditions, you constantly have to adjust the pressure / edging you're applying to keep the skis slicing (as oppossed to bouncing).
post #5 of 18
Cool thing about carving is you can go from groom to most conditions and back without much adjustment. You'll still carving.
post #6 of 18
richie-rich,



RW
post #7 of 18
Absolutely. Modern skis are meant to be on edge. Old skis are meant to be on edge when not straight-lining.
post #8 of 18
I am not sure I would attribute it directly to carving, I think 85-95% of the benefit is just from having the skis on edge. You simply cannot ski a modern ski on the flats in variable conditions over hardpack; because of the sidecut, huge yawing moments are generated. By putting the skis on edge, you introduce a stabilizing effect that far outweighs the yaws.
post #9 of 18
Good post RR. Combine an edged ski with subtle movements and you'll cure most difficult snow conditions.
post #10 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
Cool thing about carving is you can go from groom to most conditions and back without much adjustment.
Heh... who knew...
post #11 of 18
When skidding with a lot of outside ski dominance, the uneven snow and mounds easily kick you off balance (especially on the edge change) unless you have fat skis to get on top of it. Carving means the edge change is no longer precarious and the skis cut through.

As long as there is a 'base' to get the edges into you can crud bust no problem on SL/GS skis by carving. Their stiffness stops them being deflected too. You wonder why people make such of meal of conditions like this.

In europe it's pretty common to see racer kids skiing their race skis all over the mountain in all conditions by doing this. Pow is not so easy though
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinF View Post
Those "inconsistent" conditions are always challenging in terms of finding a way to smooth it out.

I've been in situations where trying for too high an edge angle (something I'm notorious for doing) produces forces that the snow conditions can't support, which causes the skis to break loose, they start going sideways, and you're headed for a painful faceplant shortly thereafter.

But like Richie-Rich said... Going for too-little edge also causes problems of the skis "not going the direction they're pointing".

Basically, it can be a highly delicate balance of pressuring and edging to get the skis to slice through the inconsistencies. And because of the very nature of inconsistent conditions, you constantly have to adjust the pressure / edging you're applying to keep the skis slicing (as oppossed to bouncing).

no such thing as to much edge angle, just skis that are to skinny/short for those conditions.
post #13 of 18

great post, i needed that. i'll remember this the next time i go skiing. the last time i went skiing, i was skiing in uneven terrain, and i did as you did; flatten my skis, but as a result of that, i will have the skis jumping all over the place. thanks!

post #14 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by narc View Post

 

In europe it's pretty common to see racer kids skiing their race skis all over the mountain in all conditions by doing this. Pow is not so easy though


 

Heh... who knew...

post #15 of 18
Thread Starter 

You will quickly know if you are making a clean carve on crud snow.  The skidding motion of an unclean turn will throw you off balance and make you work very hard...not pleasant and an easy way to get hurt.  Engage those edges hard, get them on edge, slight ankle movements will get them to bite and the snow will feel effortless...remember no skidding in this stuff!!!!

post #16 of 18

 

Or you get what happened to Heluvaskier, when the snow broke loose.....

 

perhaps we should re-phrase the concept into carve crud, but don't race on crud.

 

post #17 of 18

I would like to see a video clip of someone carving crud. IMHO for carving you need a solid base to carve on but in crud there is no such base. If you push too hard it brakes away. If you pressure gently your turn radius will be enormous. My bet is that the turn is still drifted. How can you lock your edges into something that does not exist?

 

ooops... this is a phat ski thread... with phat skis everything seems to be possible

post #18 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

 

I would like to see a video clip of someone carving crud. IMHO for carving you need a solid base to carve on but in crud there is no such base. If you push too hard it brakes away. If you pressure gently your turn radius will be enormous. My bet is that the turn is still drifted. How can you lock your edges into something that does not exist?

 

ooops... this is a phat ski thread... with phat skis everything seems to be possible

 

its not about edge but about platform. A platform can change your movement and decamber a ski just as well if not better than a hard surface on the edge of a ski. As I said earlier in the thread there is never a such thing as to much edge angle, only skis that arent wide enough for those conditions.

 

in lay mens terms the bigger the platform the more power and energy you can get out of a turn, also the quick and more agile turns and the more possiable deflection.

 

 

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