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Head World Cup i Race (2003-7)

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
These were I'm pretty sure..iirc from 03 to 07. lol.. don't think there was an 05. Not much difference in those years. Basically flat. Some had CP13 Tyrolia plates. There was also a "Europa Cup" model. Rare. Different base (harder,more moly and I think harder edges) I have a few pairs of these,(have for a few seasons)see them on the hill now and again, and for sale now and again new and used.

I don't think I have seen a review on these? Maybe someone has..or owned/skied them and can chime in as well.

I have some real love and hate for these skis.

# 1 (out of probablly 300) in sheer braking,speed control power. I have not been on any ski that has even a reasonable comparison to the "toss out the anchor" There is a caveat. This is a combined sort of carve/skid/scarve..mainly skid..in a narrow area. You cannot scrub off enough speed in a carve in such a narrow area fast enough. (Even with obviouslly linked turns) You simply need a ski that will skid/scarve/drift whatever you want to call it. Not all skis will do that. Whenever people used to argue with me about that I would say..sure..here are my Lab 2v's..go show me some good 'ol skidding..get down old school. That ended that.Then there are many skis that will..sort of..but even top skills make it next to impossible. Just waay too many skis ski..and rate/test really crappy for "skid"
This is simply a point and shoot area. Get up to speed X. Reduce speed in a narrow area as fast as possible down to whatever you want between the two points. Chose any ski or method.
This is exhilirating to a point. Just about crushes your thighs as your head is wrapping around just how fast and powerful the brakes are on these things. This OF COURSE leads the skier to want to just see how far he can push it. Just how fast he can you get going..at that same point..how far before you NEED speed control. 2 problems: The ski does this with such ease AND this ski does not feel fast(big problem) "Race" ski? I dunno.

# 1..probablly..in EASY TO SKI! This thing is past the point of ridiculous in being easy to ski. Silly. Pretty much any first time skier..could get on these things,have fun and progress. Caveat. I am basing this on someone probablly..5'10" over 190lbs on my 188's. Just get on go. They will easily skid/speed control,change direction at any speed with really impeccable manners!! Carve? SURE! again..almost at any speed. Soft/low effort. Fairly hard..sure. Better skiers..sure..aim them. Do what you want. "THIS" is a "Race" ski?? WC??? Race what? Whom? Where?

#1 and them some in Versatile. Right off the end of the scale.

# 1 or very,very close in forgivenes. Mistake? What mistake. I think if you make a mistake this ski apologises to you. Tries to please you just like a big Labrador dog. Race ski???

#1 or very close in sheer stability at any speed under most condtions. This thing is very seriously rock solid stable under most conditons off edge or on edge. What a tank. Probablly has no speed limit.

Fast,very fast gliding/running straight. Catches,passes,out distances most skiers,boards. Problem: Is WAAAY faster than it feels. Feels weeeerd to be sort of getting more speed reference/terrain points from watching other skiers ahead of you.

# 1 or very,very close for old school. I would say that 1 run old school(legs together) on these and you would not for sure use your old straight skis again. Again..these are "Race" skis? WC?

#1 in edge,base durabilty! Never have I skied any ski so much and seen so little base wear or edge wear. They have never been touched and don't need to and still ski exactlly the same as my other new refernce pair. Ya..I bought another pair too.

Accelleration..not slow..but certainlly not fast..average. Feels slow at first. Feels sort of a bit powerful..even pull..from about 15-30mph.

Weight Medium/average weight

Stiffness Not stiff..but on the stiffer side. The forebody is pretty stiff.
(Torsional stiffness Same as a piece of train track.)

Ice..they are not great on ice. Not awful..but I thought they would have been better. I am not going to fiddle with/change the edge angles just for that. They are not that bad that I want to or need to make any changes.

Dampning..much as I and SOooo many others! really admire!! the dampning (in general) on Head skis..HELLO??? I feel like boxing the ears of the Head designers with THIS ski over this ski!!!
This FEELS AND SKIS like a ski for an old woman! LIFELESS. There is NO precision. Sure..it tracks well..does not wander..is utterly stable..goes where it is pointed. No snap,zing. The road feel on this ride is ZERO. I think my 67 Lincoln suicide door at 5600 lbs had more road feel than these. HELLO?? Just who and what could one possibly do on a pair of skis that this much dampning is needed. DESIRED?? I TOLERATE this..and not very easily because I love so much overall about the skis..and I do love them! Yaya..smooth is good..damp. Nice ride,shock absorption,To a point.
Am I too heavy at 210lbs for these?? I ski them and they make me feel like I am NOT heavy enough!

Carving. Oh sure they will carve. Effortlessly at almost any speed. Varying turn shape is effortless. They will carve just as hard as anyone wants. They will never let go. They can go back and forth..carve,carve harder speed control,change turn radius,carve harder,run straight,carve,skid,bail out. Just whatever you want. Again..this is a "Race" ski?? A WC??

Steering. With that big fat tip and it's skiiny waist as well as medium stiffness,and total torsional stiffness. Plus the length of a 188cm ski with rock solid stability on and off edge.This is an extremely powerful ski in terms of steering. You let this run straight..when you want to turn it just say so. The sheer power/stability/turn initiation of this thing will REALLY IMPRESS!! "Race" ski? You bet! Precise? NO. You can effortlessly move the tip around/tip the skis..but you cannot bully it. It is just too strong. And the tip is waaay too strong to deflect too. You can charge hard..on..off. There is just tooo much dampning..throws me off for getting a better feel. IMHO.

Edge to edge they can be fast. Faster than they feel. I would like them to FEEL FAST. Sheesh..they have 112 tips and a 67mm waist and an 18m turn radius. They should be fast.

Edge angle. They respond very well! and VERY playfully to edge angle changes. Strange because they require very,very little edge angle to work well.

At 188 and with the dimensions it has as well as its weight,stiffness this can be a brute powerhouse of a ski! "Race" ski?. Probablly. WC? I dunno. Crud buster. This thing smoked the pants off a couple of mid 70's waisted skis. I am fairly fit,fairly strong and can be fairly aggressive and strong on skis at my weight..210lbs. I could never,ever overpower these things. I try...they yawn..apologise to me. I would like to see someone overpower these haha. Or ski them where and in such a manner that this much dampning is required.

These things make me lazy sometimes..

Much as I JUST HATE!! the excessive dampning and the lack of precision.AND almost boring haha..LIFELESSNESS. Yawn. BIG Yawn. I guess if that perhaps is one of the reasons they are so great(Imho I very much doubt it) then Head has made one truly fantastic ski

I use one of these as a "reference" ski when comparing to other skis. They are so mushy I think they cry actual tears when left at home alone. Them and my Labrador dog. LOL..a lot of the very same qualities.

I have to give these a good solid

10/10.

Congratulations Head on a great ski!

I spent about 4 hrs the other day on my Volkl P50F1's. The next day about the same amount of time on these Heads. And 2 days later. Back and forth.
post #2 of 9
Agree that it is a great ski. I assume you are talking about the i Race, which was basically the old iGS (21m ski) but without the VIST plate, instead it had the CP13, and laminate construction? Great skis! I think they did make it into a 17m ski at one time, before the current iSpeed WC took over that category (which are also impossible to get).
post #3 of 9
Richie Rich told me these skis blow.
post #4 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnoldtheskier View Post
/
I spent about 4 hrs the other day on my Volkl P50F1's. The next day about the same amount of time on these Heads. And 2 days later. Back and forth.
Similarities, differences?
post #5 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
Similarities, differences?

Sounds like these are polar opposites to the Volkl P50 F1's
post #6 of 9
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post
Agree that it is a great ski. I assume you are talking about the i Race, which was basically the old iGS (21m ski) but without the VIST plate, instead it had the CP13, and laminate construction? Great skis! I think they did make it into a 17m ski at one time, before the current iSpeed WC took over that category (which are also impossible to get).
Dawg..I am familiar with the history of these..and you are right. However..I do not know where this one came from or how it fits in? As with too many things Head. This ski has the idential dimensions but is not a laminate ski. It does have the largest,thickest,and hardest plate in a ski construction that I have drilled through! This is confusing as I have seen identical top sheets w/wo the CP13 plate (graphics) on both of these skis construction over several years. Ah well..I love it!!
post #7 of 9
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
Similarities, differences?
Ghost..
it is really truly unfair to compare these 2 skis.

Had the Volkl's had/have some tremendous performance advantage over other skis then it's obnoxious behavior for the most part could be accepted as part of the deal. Worth it.

Had the Heads IMPECCABLE MANNERS! AND BEHAVIOUR..belonged to a beginner ski or a pos then there again..there could be some degree of acceptance.

Problem is that the Heads are not afraid of ANY ski! They do not make any excuses and as long as there is a reasonable basis for comparison they can go head to head with any ski. These Head WC's are not a ski that because of their very,very easy going/friendly/forgiving nature do have have real balls to do some serious bare knuckle brawling..with any ski. While imho I DO NOT like some of their characteristics I am talking now of "let's have at it"

What do I get with the Volkl's that is superior..let us not forget their obnoxious behavior either! The Volkls are a GS Race ski with a very aggressive tip,profile. The Heads are neither.

Yes..they do track better and are much,much more precise. They are faster 0-15mph. They were faster..and noticeablly.. accelerating..on edge the other day in a direct comparison from about 25-40mph. I have not been on a ski under those circumstances that has that kind of acceleration. lol..so yes I had loaded them somewhat haha.

The Heads are simply so vastly superior in waaay too many areas that the above can be overlooked for all intents and purposes.

I skied the Volkls on Monday and it was very hard packed powder that was just on the verge of becoming very hardpack fast. It was also bumpy and rutty. Not moguly or rutted but for sure not smooth.
The Volkls behaviour was so bad I was just going to get rid of them.
Skiing these easy off edge..(15-25mph or so)the very slightest edging/weighting and these want to turn..fair enough. And they get nasty. IF the forebody of the ski deflects/skids A HAIR. The ski skids. It is not so much that it skids BUT the reaction is really toxic! This imho is very indicative of a not stiff enough ski that is very poorly dampened. The Volkls are certainlly not stiff..and they are not really champs torsionally either.
What happens next..and if you watch the skis(I very seldom do..bad habit) is that the ski skids in the forebody. Almost like it did not have the kahunas in the first place and gave out torsionally. The ski lets go. Depending on how much you have twisted it depends on how bad the reaction will be. lol..talking about torsional wrap yeow!Once sliding flat for a milisecond with the skier still having edged the things trying to load them this ski FIGHTS!! REACTS!! violentlly! to find it's edge again. Straighten out torsionally. Man oh man do these things have grip at this point!! Talk about a ski with the capabilities to grip ice.Grip ya..intimidating..next to impossible to control either. They are not at all content to let a skid slide haha. Did I say they did not like skidding,poor technique? haha
Ya ya I know..I don't need any GS ski/ technique lectures(actually I do haha) Had I had them going fast enough,loaded/weighted ,edged PROPERLY with enough edge angle in the first place,proper turn radius they would not have been so reactive.

I guess what bothers me most about them is their beligerant behavour. I have had a lot of these types of skis and THEY DON'T act like that. One of my favourite skis here now is a 2002/3 Dynastar laminate GS ski with a plate in a 194. It does not go all mental if there is a bit of skidding. This is a stiff ski.Neither does my skid proof Lab 2v..which is not a stiff ski..or any of my several pair of P40's kicking around. Even Volkl Platinums can have good grip. I have a real ugly,stiff,large camber Kastle Speed series that can be bad temperred with ferocious grip. Nothing like these P50.s I even have some K2 Merlns that I ground flat/no base bevel that are pretty harsh.
Very luckily for those Volkls they started groomng and left that run alone so I had a "sane" way back to the car or they for sure would have gone.

Back in the car I just grabbed my Heads and went back to the same run. Same conditions. Not groomed. I actually forgot I was on the same run!! when on the Heads.

I began to wonder why I even brought them out..or kept them.

I am not done with the Volkl's..just about..but not.

Or they are not done with me.
I dunno if it makes you a better skier to do battle/beat yourself up with nasty skis. Testing skis/appreciating differences. LOL..those Volkls are sure pushing my buttons.
post #8 of 9
The behaviour you describe is what I was suspecting from the very soft hand flexing. The torsional rigidity seems high enough on mine, but the longitudinal rigidity is quite low, so any input will cause the ski to go into a carve as tight as you please with next to no resistance from the ski, power steering to the max. It seems this feature is compounded by that flex being too soft to deliver enough load to the front of the ski to keep your mass on track around the corner.

Hopefully my lighter mass will make it not so bad for me. Seeing as those skis are useless to you, what bindings do you have on them, Marker Comps by any chance?

I'm getting tired of making gs turns on sl skis, and my Volants lack ice grip.
post #9 of 9
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
The behaviour you describe is what I was suspecting from the very soft hand flexing. The torsional rigidity seems high enough on mine, but the longitudinal rigidity is quite low, so any input will cause the ski to go into a carve as tight as you please with next to no resistance from the ski, power steering to the max. It seems this feature is compounded by that flex being too soft to deliver enough load to the front of the ski to keep your mass on track around the corner.

Hopefully my lighter mass will make it not so bad for me. Seeing as those skis are useless to you, what bindings do you have on them, Marker Comps by any chance?

I'm getting tired of making gs turns on sl skis, and my Volants lack ice grip.
I have had softer skis than these..and also taken/modifed/made 2 piece plates on other skis (to make them softer) and they did not act like this. I know when I am too heavy or overdriving/skiing/overpowering. I can have a deft touch when needed. Being lighter THAT is hard haha.
I am not really done with these. I am going to fiddle around with those pins too..maybe pull the plate off and do something different.
No..I don't have any Marker Comps/
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