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The Future for Non-Hostage bindings?

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
I HOPE this isn't it!!

Today I get a call from someone looking for some bindings.
No big deal.. I didn't have them. On the phone I go.

I get this from a very big reputable sporting goods ski retailer/chain whom I knew would have them. Been around for 20/30? years

"I am sorry sir we don't sell the bindings seperately anymore. Just the skis and bindings mounted together in an integrated system..try x" (By far the biggest ski retailer chain).

I try and sort of recover KNOWING that x WILL have them

x.."Ski bindings..HMMmmm...AWwww..UMmmm..we don't really sell them anymore..can't even order them for you ..what do you need?..what are they for?..who are they for?..if you can please tell me that I can look around here and see if we have any old stock laying around..or go on the computer and look for you..can you hold for a few minutes and I can try and help you out."

Several minutes later..."No..sorry...there is really nothing here..on the computer..there are a few..maybes..you would have to phone the individual stores to verify..pretty much everything now is all integrated..why don't you call (the first people I called).."

With these 2 biggies out of the ski binding business..I wonder how/what the small independants will do?? Every now and then I catch part of a thread where someone can't get a part or even bindings..in the U.S. market. lol this is Canada.

I remember when the 2nd chain I mentioned started..in the mid to late 1960's..

only a season or so ago they had/could get ANY!! binding.

Now nothing. I am in shock. I am sure that other shops have/can get stuff. What? How much? $? and for how much longer?.
post #2 of 27
I have no idea where you are posting from, but I assure you that skis that are marketed to crowds other than stock brokers and Euros do still come without plastic binding hostage nonsense, and several companies do indeed still sell high quality bindings to the general public.

Instead of shopping at box stores, try specialty ski retailers. Or even the interwebs.
post #3 of 27
Thread Starter 
As I said..Canada.
I assure you these are not marketted towards stockbrokers or the like. These are both giants up here now ..both started as small grass roots speciality stores..and grew. These were stores where the average guy could have walked in and bought ANY binding.Cheap. Last year.AND got all the help he could want from their techs..free.
Of course I am aware of specialty retailers,on-line etc etc that have also been around for years where you can still get bindings,non hostage skis. I did mention that as well as what? for how long? and for how much$? will they be able to continue (supplying bindings).

I also said I wonder what/how the small independants will do. Yes that includes onliners and specialty ski shops. I just get the sneaking suspicion that they are not going to get..or continue to get/have the kind of access to the major binding manufacturers that they once had. Or their prices are going to..or be forced through the roof.
post #4 of 27
?????

I've bought 8-10 bindings in the last couple years. They are so readily available I don't even consider this an issue, and don't understand the point.

None of the big box sports retailers have a decent ski department these days, at least in the US. I would not use them as evidence of any trends. They have dumbed down their sales staff and are targeting a different customer base -- the ones unlikely to want flat bindings. People shopping at these stores may not even know the difference between integrated and a la carte bindings. It certainly doesn't matter for the mass market skis they are selling these days.
post #5 of 27
The point is I walked into McMaster Sports ( a ski specialty store that has been in business for years) in Hamilton to buy a pair of bindings for my Volkl P50 F1s and they told me point blank they didn't sell bindings. They only sold bindings and skis together as a matched set.

They did have a few pairs of skis for sale without bindings though.

It seems to me they are just mad at people who get a good deal on a pair of skis and don't pay the full mark-up, and in order to discourage that practice they will make it difficult for these people.
post #6 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
I have no idea where you are posting from, but I assure you that skis that are marketed to crowds other than stock brokers and Euros do still come without plastic binding hostage nonsense...
What the F is that supposed to mean? Not that I take offense as a "Euro", which I'm not, but what is the point of an inaccurate comment like that? Like suddenly you're an expert on the way skis are marketed in Europe? WTF?

Also, name me a company, any company, outside Europe that even makes bindings.
post #7 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by prickly View Post
Also, name me a company, any company, outside Europe that even makes bindings.
Kneebinding.
post #8 of 27
Funny... when I bought my 'hostage' system, the plate was screwed to a flat ski. I bought it because I knew I could mount it elsewhere later.

I just think it's funny that hidden in some of these hostage set-ups is a better-than-demo solution to malleable bindings... if you own a drill and have some math skills.

That is all.
post #9 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
The point is I walked into McMaster Sports ( a ski specialty store that has been in business for years) in Hamilton to buy a pair of bindings for my Volkl P50 F1s and they told me point blank they didn't sell bindings. They only sold bindings and skis together as a matched set.

They did have a few pairs of skis for sale without bindings though.

It seems to me they are just mad at people who get a good deal on a pair of skis and don't pay the full mark-up, and in order to discourage that practice they will make it difficult for these people.
Just get a set of Marker Comps off ebay for your P50's....that's what I did. Got a pair of shinny new Comp 1400's for $120
post #10 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
I have no idea where you are posting from, but I assure you that skis that are marketed to crowds other than stock brokers and Euros do still come without plastic binding hostage nonsense, and several companies do indeed still sell high quality bindings to the general public.
Ah, ignorance is bliss!

I better start buying the skis that are marketed for me, instead of all these stiff long skis & racestock bindings...



post #11 of 27

influence markeing with your ski dollars

the integrated system is very limiting, and would limit our choices for set ups and the ability to re-use bindings on new boards if it goes too far, IMO.

soooo, don't buy it.

And if you need proof how wrong it can go, remember the crap Atomic was putting on its skis, and note how often the rail/ binding interface gets wobbly on several systems. now it's Nordica, Blizzard, Volkl....just don't buy the stuff.

My trad binding set up on Stockli XL's seems to arc and flex very well. Is the claim that a true even arc can only be achieved with a sliding rail system based on any real on-snow data? Is the concept predicated on a hard snow application only?
post #12 of 27
I'm stunned to hear that there are retailers only carrying hostage skis. That is unless they are K2, Volkl, Nordica dealers. Those and a few others make a lot of hostage skis but they all make at least half of their fleets in flat styles. These days every company makes some sort of hostage system and I hate it. I think they are providing a dis-service to the consumer by packaging them into a setup they think everyone wants.

Why any ski shop would not sell bindings is beyond me.
post #13 of 27
System Bindings = The "rear entry boots" of this decade!
I'm seeing the pendulum swinging back towards toe/heel bindings. All the better ski shops will have many choices in stock. Where are you posting from? If your "ski shop" doesn't stock toe/heel bindings, it's not a real ski shop!
post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by torfinn View Post
Ah, ignorance is bliss!
Indeed. Many of the "race carver" consumer skis are no longer even marketed in North America.

Euroland = the land of the carving ski. The "carving ski" is where the system binding originated and has found the most traction.

Real race skis? Nope. Park and pipe skis? Nope. Skis for new snow? Nope.
post #15 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
Euroland = the land of the carving ski.
Yeah, well Europe just happens to be where most skis come from.

And don't give me the "European skis are made in Asia too" thing, that's not what I meant. Though it may well still be the case that more skis are manufactured in Europe than anywhere else.
post #16 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs View Post
System Bindings = The "rear entry boots" of this decade!
I'm seeing the pendulum swinging back towards toe/heel bindings. All the better ski shops will have many choices in stock. Where are you posting from? If your "ski shop" doesn't stock toe/heel bindings, it's not a real ski shop!
Canada..Toronto.
Surely this is not a ski town. No.No? Should see Hwy 400 North/South. Sat.,Su's to our little ski country.Actually Hwy 401 across to/between the 400 and the Pkwy was the busiest stretch of Hwy on the planet 20 years ago..and still is.One of the ski hills cracked the one millionth skier in a season years ago. The Toronto Ski Show years and years ago was by far the biggest in the world!
I am not of course saying this is a/the ski town and this is where trends are set.
Check out the economy here on winter weekends!

I am not looking for bindings now. (I did not find any..did not look real hard either/I just pulled this particular hostage plate and flat mounted other bindings..yawn..I do/have done this enough anyway.)(( never before because the bindings were hard to get))

But I did phone 3 more ski shops. Just now. Out of more curiosity.All large. Reputable. They can satisfy almost all skiers needs. All 3 said they did not sell bindings.
The 3rd shop wanted to elaborate. He said it was just business. He said almost no shops around here sell bindings now because there is NO demand. No one comes in no one phones no one asks. There is almost no feedback/asking around..even in the trade amongst other shops. It has become just business. We have to go through all the business stuff..figuring what we want/need WHAT PEOPLE WANT,WHAT WILL SELL. Cost/profit/orderring,sales people.reps.manufacturers, paying for it,displays, staff knowledge..THEN no one wants to even ask about it! Let alone buy it.
He said out of the last few years when they had their HUGE! binding display set up that no way did they sell 1 pair of non integrated bindings for every 100 pairs of skis with systems on them No way. He had a pretty large display of flat skis too.

He also said that sure..there was still a market for non integrated stuff..free ride,racers. Purists. People have to look around..on line..order it..pay through the nose often.

He said too that a lot of skiers are very,very happy with their integrated setups. They have been aroun d for a bit of time..stood that test..are on nearly all high end/high performance skis.The ease on a lot of them for demo/personal positioning/re-sale..no remounts/re-drills etc. Stuff that was impossible before.

I dunno..I don't think that pendulum is gonna swing back. I can see integration reaching the point where more and more shops like the one above(the ones around here) don't even order bindings. I can't see manufacturers continuing to make stuff they aren't selling. Sure..right now..in other parts..there is stil/are markets. Here. Nope. Done.
post #17 of 27
One more for the "I'm so old file"

I'm so old I remember when heel pieces and toe pieces were sold separately, and we used to mix them.
post #18 of 27
I get flat skis and seperate bindings regularly from a shop in Eastern Canada. Last week P-15 Look turntables for wood skis.
post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog View Post
One more for the "I'm so old file"

I'm so old I remember when heel pieces and toe pieces were sold separately, and we used to mix them.



+1
post #20 of 27
The hot set-up Marker toes and Look heels or was it the other way around.
post #21 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog View Post
One more for the "I'm so old file"

I'm so old I remember when heel pieces and toe pieces were sold separately, and we used to mix them.
Marker toes for sure! DIN? WHAT DIN haha. i don't even know if they had a model #haha (I am sure they must have). The hot "dual release" ones. 2 seperate pivotting parts on the toe. DIN release setting.. YA a big knurled brass knob.

Heels..Tyrolia for sure. I think they were Clix? Or 1-2-3.? Those Toe pieces were crappy. Had to notch the boots haha. I really liked it when the little metal ball at the bottom of the spring thing in the housing wore a flat spot in it and there was NO release..hahaha. Notching boot toe soles to fit your bindings.. HEHEHAHA LMAO ROFL..
post #22 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
The hot set-up Marker toes and Look heels or was it the other way around.

oh ya.....it WAS the other way 'round
post #23 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog View Post
One more for the "I'm so old file"

I'm so old I remember when heel pieces and toe pieces were sold separately, and we used to mix them.
an image is coming in: a marker Arlberg Strap heel (with the wrap around spring clip heel piece on a rotating plate) and the Look toe (concurrent with the Marker toes that split to realease and had to be re-set)
post #24 of 27
Xplod-amat heels? Member the N-17 heels w/ a plastic clip for the boot lip.
post #25 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post
an image is coming in: a marker Arlberg Strap heel (with the wrap around spring clip heel piece on a rotating plate) and the Look toe (concurrent with the Marker toes that split to realease and had to be re-set)

Remember when....
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post #26 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post
Remember when....
Ummm...are you going to be fixing a sink????


post #27 of 27
These are fun to ski on. 170cm/76mm@13TR.
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