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heavy tracked-up powder... - Page 3

post #61 of 89
Quoted by Wear the fox hat: "IMHO I've yet to meet any intelligent sportsman who thinks they don't need help from others to improve - why else do pros have coaches? It's not necessarily about being superior, it's about being able to spot a weakness and suggest a solution.""

Yes, listen to your coach. They know better than you how to make you win because they are so much more in tune with what's REALLY happening out there on the course.

(AP)[Jesse Hunt, US Ski team coach, on Bode Millers current game: "He's definately maturing, for me he's just skiing the proper tactics - he needs to ski that way more often".
But Miller disagrees, "It's a coaches way of rationalizing whats happening. It sort of nullifies what they say if i'm doing the same things i've been doing the whole time and all of a sudden start having success. I see a lot of people losing sight of what is (the maximum) - so many racers I see start doing what the coaches say and start backing off".

Regardless of what his coach thinks, Bode Miller insists that he hasn't toned down his risk-taking style. Don't expect Miller to back off and just enjoy the Olympic experience. He didn't earn a spot on the US team by playing it safe.]

Pros have coaches because it's lonely at the top and they need someone to talk to. That's it.
post #62 of 89
Sorry, I guess I'm wrong as usual. What would I know. I'm an idiot. Ask anyone. (apart from my colleagues in MENSA)
You're right Cheapseats, Pros have coaches because they are mentally unstable and can't cope with their lives.
It must be difficult to be perfect. I feel sorry for someone who believes they don't need help, and can't get better, cause they're the best.
I'd rather be like Michael Schumacher. He is the best at what he does, but he also knows that there is always room for improvement.


post #63 of 89
There's room for improvement at any level - I think most rational people know that. However, at some point you're going to have to stop relying on others to help you improve, and start relying on yourself and your own observations. Upon reaching a certain level in a sport or field of expertise, only YOU can be your own best critic... I think... but what do I know... I'm just a dumb, no talent gaper.
post #64 of 89

It may not be proper but I ski in three dimensions: down the fall line, across it, and up and down. I tend to ski powder as if I have trampolines on my feet.

When carving turns on groomed runs I push my feet out sideways and let the skis edge around. In crud or powder I go much more up and down, weighting and unweighting. I shift my weight from one inside edge to the other but do much less pushing outward with my feet. Or if the pitch steepens which increases the forces pulling you down which will allow you to turn the skis across the fall line succesfully.

Bumps taught me to keep the skis pointed down the hill and to avoid bringing them across the fall line. In deeper snow too much effort to cross the fall line will get you hung up in the snow by sluffing off speed and could cause yee olde yardsale. You have to be able to trust your speed and your skis and see ahead. And keep your weight forward which will keep you driving forward.

I think mostly it is a mind game based upon experience. You gotta believe in your skis and in yourself.


There's nothing better than to see something and be able to hit it aggressively.
post #65 of 89
Cheap Seats wrote:
>>I just read Pierre's comments on the XXX and Xscream from last year and was ashamed to find out that i'm JUST ANOTHER GAPER - I own both skis. I had no idea that a user-friendly ski signifys that it's probably designed for people with weaker technical ability... or worse, that the skis promote sloppy ability because "they allow people to get away with poor technique". <<
There is absolutely nothing wrong with designing a couple of intermediate skis and marketing them as hot stuff. Both skis are popular precisely because of manufacturers doing that. Indeed some people on this board have bought the XXX and X-Scream based on my opinion. Those skis simply have little appeal to me but may indeed have large appeal to some, especially people who would like more stability.
Cheap Seats you are simply too far out there to classify you as a gaper.
post #66 of 89
Practice is good, BUT if you practice bad habits you will get better at them!! Be sure you are practicing the correct moves.

I think this topic shifted from crud skiing to powder skiing. The original issue dealt with "tracked up powder". To skis this kind of heavy (heavier than unskied powder) snow, you must "SLICE AND DICE". Ski through the snow - don't try to move it out of the way. As in skiing other conditions, continually move forward - not sideways. You want to ski a CLEAN line, not a braking line. There must always be active turning - you get into trouble when you stop moving forward THROUGH the snow. Think "10 toes always turning".
post #67 of 89
Haven't heard from you in awhile aux. Did you give up on your question due to all the ski mish mash? Anyway, I just have to point out that there has been alot of things thrown out here about skiing your 12 in of cut up pow, not tracked enough to go to a more packed technique, type of snow. I have to respond, because I disagree with alot of the responses. I kept reading forward, drive the skis hard, push through it. In teaching mostly off piste, and lots of crud, the main problem I see with good skiers trying to ski natural snow is that they are too far forward. You end up overloading the shovel and getting thrown. I keep hearing steer, keep steering, etcc. Yes, steering is still valid, I'm not going to get into the eski vs. bob barnes arguement, but if there is any place where excess steering is not ideal, it is difficult cut up thick stuff. Let your anticipation/ release create your rotary and let your ski and active tilting of the inside foot do the rest of the work. And once again, try to get those skis out from under your body. You isolate yourself from all the instablity of the snow by keeping the skis on a different plane than the upper body. Anyway, hope this makes sense. Gotta run. Holiday
post #68 of 89
I'm with Holiday.

If anyone read my advice as "get forward," please correct that understanding. Too far forward and you will get tossed, or at least your head will keep snapping forward as snow consistency/resistance changes. Do you want to ski crud looking like one of those plastic bird toys that perpetually bobs its head down to get a drink of water?
post #69 of 89
Fox Hat
Most people in the "States" have no idea who Michael Schumacher is or that he is the worlds highest paid athlete.
How do they like Eddie Irvine in Ireland now that he took off his Shamrock?
Being named Paddy Slattery wouldn't get me a free drink in Slattery's Pub on Capel St. in Dublin. :
Anyone who's never been North of Ontonogin in the winter has NO CLUE what it's like up there.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 23, 2002 09:57 AM: Message edited 1 time, by SLATZ ]</font>
post #70 of 89
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SLATZ:
How do they like Eddie Irvine in Ireland now that he took off his Shamrock? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He's a bit of a joke - he has decided that girls like him cause he's rich and a driver, but most of the Irish can't stand him as a human being, but support him as a driver. His family used to live about 2 miles from me, in Conlig.
He's also the second highest paid person working for Ford (and they call the Irish stupid!)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Being named Paddy Slattery wouldn't get me a free drink in Slattery's Pub on Capel St. in Dublin.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, doesn't work like that. That would be like me going to the White House and saying "My name is George Bush, can I run your country?"
Every Tom, Dick & Harry in Ireland is called Paddy Slattery.

post #71 of 89
Thread Starter 
holiday: got a bit frustrated, is all. lotta baiting going on and the topic took off into old feuds -- i wasn't interested in participating [img]smile.gif[/img] . the crux of my problem was exhaustion. i was leaning back and i even knew it at the time, but wasn't sure how to fix it w/o getting thrown, and it's hard to modify anything when your legs feel like rubber. all your suggestions are very much appreciated, they're filed away for the next time i encounter similar conditions.
post #72 of 89
Auxcrinier, Go to www.skiingmag.com and look in the archives for How To Ski Anything: Crud, parts 1 & 2. The author ESki sometimes contributes to this forum. I took a clinic from him and it was very good.
post #73 of 89
Don't get forward - stand against the WHOLE ski - stay in the middle with constant shin contact. Keep tipping and turning - no dead spots.
post #74 of 89
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gonzostrike:
...Too far forward and you will get tossed, or at least your head will keep snapping forward as snow consistency / resistance changes. Do you want to ski crud looking like one of those plastic bird toys that perpetually bobs its head down to get a drink of water?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I don't know how "good" of an idea this is, but when I'm making long radius turns in highly variable snow, I sometimes exaggerate my tip lead (for the same reason that pinna' do) and this vastly increases my fore-aft stability even in Alpine gear.

The obvious problem with this is that this is like old style skiing with a huge tip lead that has to be switched with each turn. OTOH, I'd rather deal with that rather than imitate the dunking bird toy that you mentioned - grin.

Tom / PM
post #75 of 89
Holiday, I'm with you.

Aux, I can very much appreciate your situation as one who was told a number of years ago by a coach in a steep skiing camp that I was the best damned gorilla skier he had ever seen!

I think the key is to be able to move the center of pressure under your feet back towards the heel a bit without getting in the back seat. In this way you can more "skeletally" resist the tendency for your body to jerk forward when skis "grab" or are pushed around without putting unnecessary stress on the quads from being in the back seat.
post #76 of 89
Si, I agree. Importantly, one must distinguish between "being in the back seat" and being able to DRIVE the skis from a hips-rearward-and-lowered position. the latter works very well and leaves you balanced, the former is carnage-in-waiting.

when one skis on just tail weight, one gets the "dunking bird" or somersault. see nolobolono's thread on relief for burning quads for a related discussion.
post #77 of 89
What happened to skiing the pow? I like the helpful hints, but sifting through the name calling is, well...painful. I get nasty, heavy crud/day old powder in CA, and I get tired from skiing it. I lived in UT for a while (wish I still did) and yes, Little Cottonwood Canyon has magic snow. I can't ski there all the time (dang it!), so I want to hear more about skiing in the crappy (yet plentiful) stuff I am stuck with. Thanks for allowing me to rant.
post #78 of 89
Hey You Guys,

I would offer a couple thoughts more on crud skiing. Personally, I hardly ever make a short turn in crud anymore unless I grabbed the wrong pair of skis in the morning by mistake. Long turns and mid-fat to fat skis are now like bread and butter for me and most of my skiing compadres. The materials are getting better so these skis are doing beter on firmer snow too. The long radius turn is easy to teach too.

But in a nutshell here are a few tid-bits: try to finish each turn with a two ski platfrom. This does not have to be 50/50 but both skis should be at a relatively equal edge angle. Body position should be flexed and the weight centered on the whole of each foot and always maintain a toes/knees/shoulders vertical allignment (more or less). You definately want to keep the shins snug against the tongue of the boot.

Finish the turn softly with out any jarring down weighting. Turn shape for speed control.

Release the turn by relaxing/retracting the outside leg and lead the patient edge change with this same foot becoming the inside foot. Bring this foot in lightly and patiently. Eyes/hands/shoulders/upper body always face the direction of travel (like Holiday said) to provide the rotary energy to draw the skis into the new turn as you focus on laying your skis on edge. As the skis come under you and start coming onto edge, be patient and let the turn come around and your weight will settle naturally onto the skis in the turn.

Then do it again and again and again. A good day of 20,000 to 30,000 vertical should be bring a smile to your face as well as a feel-good-about-yourself burn to your legs!

If you are on skinny skis, short turns may work better.

Like I said, a couple nutshell comments! Hope these make sense.

Cheers- :
post #79 of 89
thanks ESki. good to see you in here again.

who teaches your 3-day camps in BC, and at Targhee? I'm thinking about doing one in March if possible. sold out yet?

keep up the good work.
post #80 of 89
Hey Gonzo,

I was just up in your neck of the mountains this past weekend with the Egan Bros and Dean Decas putting on an "X-Team Advanced Ski Clinic" at Big Sky. The skiing was just getting REALLY good when we left yesterday after a beautiful 1/2 day of ripping up the wind-blown pow! We arrived back in Tahoe at 4:00 a.m. but it was worth every late night mile.

Anyway, to answer your question, we are doing another 3-day X-Team Camp in Red Mountain, BC from February 22-24. Chamonix, France in March. Check out skiclinics.com and if you're interested, email me and I can fill you in on the details.


P.S. I hope my answering gonzo's question here is not offending anyone. Please let me know if it is more appropriate to answer with a PM. ... Alrighy then!
post #81 of 89
Don't PM when you can share it with all of us!
OK, now three questinons:
1. What are the dates for the Cham March trip?
2. How advanced is it?
3. Where can I find out more?

post #82 of 89
for x team clinics click here

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 24, 2002 06:20 AM: Message edited 2 times, by dchan ]</font>
post #83 of 89
May have something to do with commercial ads in regular messages on this site. Not sure what AC's policy on this one is.

On the subject,
1. I just found this site, if you guys already have seen it I apologize. http://www.skiingmag.com/privatelessons/int3.html ]
The expert section has a few nice video clips too.

2. When I find myself on uneven snow or even on the skied off groomer I like to play with moving my weigth between skis much like a a goalkeeper in hokey between his skates. Just ski down relaxed and alternating weight shifts and feeling how skis react. Then when one of my skis hits a bump in crud I am ready.
It helps me to think about those soft/crud bumps as something that I have to step over when I am just walking along. Bring your knees up and extend on the back side. But do not loose contact with the snow and be powerfull. If you take off on every transition you have to deal with landing and that tires you out as well.


<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 24, 2002 08:08 AM: Message edited 2 times, by eug ]</font>
post #84 of 89
If it is [1] Requested by other members (unsolicited) and [2] It is a regular contributor, then I have no problem with posting clinic or other class-offering info. ESki can post that info if he wants, or you can PM him or you can go to his website: www.AllMountainSkiPros.com which I think has all the info for his various programs
post #85 of 89
AC--thanks for the clarification.

Our Chamonix X-Team Clinic will be this March 15 - 22. Seven nights with six days of coaching / guiding in the Cham Valley. We rent a big van and get the full-valley tickets.

We invite all skiers from intermediate (basically parrallel skiing on steep groomers) to full-on rippers who are looking for their next level. Chamonix offers a HUGE variety of skiing for all abilities. Like usual, the X-Team Clinic is about honing all around and off-piste skiing skills with a nice dash of adventure.

The above links will put in touch with the right folks for more info and booking!

It a total blast over there.

post #86 of 89
I've skied Cham before, at the same time of year - St Patrick's weekend! There's a great Irish bar in town. Memories. But The last time I was there, there wasn't that much good snow.
But let me see how things work out with my new job. I'd be very tempted to join you.

post #87 of 89
I find it hard to decribe skiing technique as I have never had a lesson and never really use ski lingo. For the first time I have a ski partner this year, a friend who is an intermediate. When we are in powder he straightlines. My advice? I yell "TURN!"

But reading through all of this brought a few lines of poetry to mind by James Galvin, a writer from Wyoming:

Talking about the iris
does not make the iris

There are folks here who can talk it open but I prefer to ski it open. Just my 2 cents on how hard it can be to say what you mean about what you do.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 25, 2002 02:19 PM: Message edited 1 time, by astrochimp ]</font>
post #88 of 89
Here at Alta sometimes the hardest skiing on a powder day is the blue groomers at the end of the day . Littered with thick junky,uneven piles of almost mogels that you need to bust through. Plays havoc with the usual blue crowd.It's much easier to ski off trail steep crud. Anyway, the best advice I ever got, from ski school, no less, was always keep 'em up on edge and turning; an edged, turning ski is a powerful ski. Blows through anything, even on my wussey French skis; so stick with yours and try it..

"And when are you gonna junk those flexons and get some real boots?" :
post #89 of 89
Thread Starter 
skiing today, and found some places to put some of y'all's pointers into effect. most helpful were the suggestions to let my skeleton hold my weight, and not my quads, to stay centered, and to power through the crap w/ my shins and toes (i found a low growl at turn initiation and through the middle of the turn, rather similar to the ones one makes when pinching a particularly difficult loaf, helped keep me focused on "powering" through it ). today, advice from this thread and pointers on moguls from archived threads (extending your legs into the valleys, and all that) have more than vindicated the hours i've spent browsing through threads about cheesy ski movies and gear i'll never have the opportunity to use. thanks a bunch, all..

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 31, 2002 03:02 PM: Message edited 2 times, by Auxcrinier ]</font>
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