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heavy tracked-up powder... - Page 2

post #31 of 89
Thanks Gonz will give it a try. Wish I had this advice Yesterday!
post #32 of 89
Thread Starter 
gonzo, i'm not adopting a pose when i buy my skis.

i don't really want to argue my abilities here, it's silly and makes me feel like i'm 12 -- i do believe my difficulties the other day in cut up 'mashed potatoes' stem more from inexperience, fatigue, and fear of breaking my boards than my inability to ski my skis, and i generally am pretty honest w/ myself. i've no difficulty whatsoever laying down clean arcs of any size at any speed on almost any condition but ice and cut up mashed potatoes with my xxx's.

i didn't spend all that much on my skis...got a great post-season deal.

clear direct communication is effective only when its use doesn't turn the listener off. this isn't a computer game, it's interaction. to truly be clear and direct it is necessary to cleanse your statements of any emotion or tone. you seem to mistake sarcasm and contempt for clear and direct, when they only muddy the waters as much or more than warmth or compassion. tact isn't an antiquated notion. i don't want you to hold my hand.

again, thanks for your advice...i do hope it helps.
post #33 of 89
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BG:
Try a snowboard!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

rihgt. Maybe if you have excellent boarding skills, the 1%. yesterday I watch tons of boarders >>>> traversing and/or straight lining through the crud until they do a somersault tip dive. The other fun thing to watch is they straight line until they get stopped by knee deep crud and wallow around for a bit.

Irulan.
post #34 of 89
XXX"s

funny I had this conversation yesterday. some friends of mine had demo'd single and double x's. Stiff, must ski aggressive were the key word. Tentative, forget it.

I had been thinking about demo-ing some but I know my ski style really lacks a super agressive snap, so I think they are not the ski for me.

Irulan
post #35 of 89
clear direct communication is effective only when its use doesn't turn the listener off. this isn't a computer game, it's interaction. to truly be clear and direct it is necessary to cleanse your statements of any emotion or tone. you seem to mistake sarcasm and contempt for clear and direct, when they only muddy the waters as much or more than warmth or compassion. tact isn't an antiquated notion. i don't want you to hold my hand.

I don't mistake sarcasm OR contempt for "clear and direct." I have said 3 times now that I am dead serious about the XXX. It doesn't matter whether you chose that ski because it was a great price, or because you wanted an easier time in powder, or because you just love Rossis and wanted to try a fattie. The ski is designed for someone who can ski ANY condition aggressively, not for someone who doesn't know how to ski snow that is less than perfect.

We humans are a lazy sort. Yesterday I saw lots of people who normally ski midfats, but were on fatties because of the 12" new. There is no need for a pair of fatties just because there's new snow and cutup and crud going all the way to knee height. But most people want to ski for fun. They don't much care about improving their technique. They don't much care for disciplined skiing. This is why the very concept of skiing fatties has become so popular.

Among the fat skis there are many types. In order to avoid having the fat ski amplify your problems, you are better off getting on one that suits your skill level. The Volant Chubb is a great example of a fatty that works for intermediate skiers who otherwise would be demolished in serious powder.

I offered my suggestions on how to deal with cruddy snow. I think you will find them helpful. Perhaps my terminology is vague, and if you find that you can't get the feelings I'm describing, let me know and I'll try a different set of images.
post #36 of 89
Thread Starter 
sigh...as much as i hate cliches: pull your head outta your butt, gonz. we've little basis for discussion or argument.

pretty sure i've reaped everything useful from this thread...
post #37 of 89
Hey Aux, regarding your skis..

The XXX isn't hard to ski at all as long as you don't have the 193 length. You said you got a deal on them late last season, so I assume you have the '01 or '00 model. Only the 193 in those years had extra metal, making it a more difficult ski to handle. The 188 and below are very forgiving. They will definitely make learning to ski crud and powder easier. Keep with em, you'll learn to love em. Gonzo is once again commenting on a ski he hasn't skied before, so I'd generally ignore his comments.

For the '02 version of the XXX, all lengths have more metal, and its a more demanding ski in the shorter lengths. But something a lot of people don't understand is that fats mostly become demanding when used as an all mountain ski. Even a demanding fat ski (like a G41 for example), can be a great learning tool as long as you keep it in the pow. It becomes a handful when you try to ski tight areas, harder snow, bumps, etc. As long as you're just cruising around in 1 ft or more of fresh, a "demanding" fat ski will probably be more forgiving than a "forgiving" midfat. That make any sense?

Keep in mind, if you have the '01 or '00 XXX in 188 or shorter, then the last paragraph doesn't even apply to you. Those XXX's are fairly forgiving all the time, you have nothing to worry about.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 21, 2002 12:46 PM: Message edited 1 time, by Matter ]</font>
post #38 of 89
Auxcrinier keep the boards and practicepracticepracticepracticepracticepracticepr acticepracticepracticepracticepractice.
post #39 of 89
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Auxcrinier:
sigh...as much as i hate cliches: pull your head outta your butt, gonz.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

elegant and mature. no wonder you take offense to my posts. next time I'll get down at your level, Beavis.
post #40 of 89
Keep with em, you'll learn to love em. Gonzo is once again commenting on a ski he hasn't skied before, so I'd generally ignore his comments.

grow up little boy. nobody's impressed by you saying the XXX is "forgiving." anyone who has to lie to that extent hasn't anything valid to offer.

My view on the XXX is based on the opinions of friends who ski VERY well and have skied the older Bandits and the newest ones, all 3 models.

back to the sandbox, another 10 mins until juice and crackers.
post #41 of 89
Gonzo, I love it when you make an ass out of yourself, but you really outdid yourself this time. You should really refrain from making comments about skis you've never skied. You come off looking like a tool.

Here's what I dug up on the XXX in the last 10 minutes. Its the comments on the XXX from last seasons epic meeting(I forget where). I suggest reading that thread, start with Pierre's comments near the bottom of the first page.

http://www.epicski.com/cgi-bin/ultim...c&f=2&t=001291

Here's some feedback on the XXX from Powdigger, a self proclaimed(I think?) early advanced skier. If he sees this post, maybe he'll post his thoughts.
http://www.epicski.com/cgi-bin/ultim...c&f=1&t=002174
http://www.epicski.com/cgi-bin/ultim...c&f=1&t=001900

If I can find some more relevant posts, I'll edit and add them.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 21, 2002 02:02 PM: Message edited 1 time, by Matter ]</font>
post #42 of 89
My thoughts aside on the XXX, because I think its a bit soft in the shovel. Its a great ski, you have it, learn to use it. Whatever ski you use, learn its sweet spot.

Here is the deal, whatever ski you ski in the crud, STAY FORWARD!!! I cannot say this loud enough, crud requires you to force your ski through the snow, and staying forward will do this. Also, keeps you on your toes when you blast through a sof bump into the air. Secondly, speed is not a bad thing, keep with it, more speed = more force = smoother ride, but stay in control! Finially, forget about saving your skis. If you want to ski it well, and have fun, plan to spend some time with the p-tex at the end of the day/weekend. Aggressive skiing will take you where you want to go, how you want to get there.

Question: Why does every post have to do this?

Oh yea, Mt Bohemia has great snow! You should have a good time with a pair of XXX's there! BUt if you can ski the midwest, you can ski anything!!!

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 21, 2002 02:15 PM: Message edited 1 time, by AltaSkier ]</font>
post #43 of 89
Matter, the only person acting like a cross between a mule and a horse is YOU, my sorry little immature one.

There are only 2 reasons someone would say the Bandit XXX is forgiving -- (1) because he really is that burly a skier, or (2) to show off and brag about how burly he thinks or wants others to think he is.

I have no doubt that Pierre Eh! is capable and strong enough to find them forgiving. That's because he never jumps into discussions with the intent of tossing cracks at me and my ability. Anyone who continually belittles someone else without first being prompted to do so is a person who clearly has some self-esteem problems.

My BS detector was pegged at full the first time I read one of your posts bragging about skiing fats and ripping everything. Any truly good skier wouldn't brag about his abilities, he would just ski and let the rest speak for itself. Since you're not content to do that, it's logical to conclude you really don't believe you are that good, and talk about my abilities as a way to inflate your own. How very sad.

What's even more sad? I'll tell you: the fact that you get so wound up over my posts that you find it necessary to keep coming back over here from Pouter to issue insults.

Sorry, but you won't see me playing the "let's go over to the other forum and show them how dumb they are and how cool we are." That's jr high at best. Thanks for confirming your ludicrous, laughable immaturity.
post #44 of 89
Gonz, whatever you read into my posts is your problem. I never post in the instruction forum, but I did because you were misrepresenting the XXX. Why don't I post more in the instruction forum? Because I don't feel like I possess the knowledge and technical jargon to participate in the discussions here. Also, for the most part, I find it pretty boring.

I stand by what I said. I welcome anyone who has skied the '01 or older XXX in 188 or shorter to give their opinion. I had the same review back in the first thread I posted. I said the 188 was fairly forgiving when Pierre called it a gaper ski. I then said the 193 was a totally different animal. I also commented on while the XXX is forgiving, its nothing compared to the Chubb.

I never post over at Powder, not that there's anything wrong with that (God I miss Seinfeld) I do read the Gear forum over there every day, thats it.
post #45 of 89
whatever. does your analyst know about this new pathology?
post #46 of 89
The keweenaw peninsula of Michigan has very unique weather. The only other place that has the same mix of snow conditions is Utah. First off, cold dry Canadian air blows across lake Superior picking up moisture similar to the air blowing across Salt lake. The Keweenaw rises more than a 1000 feet above lake Superior providing ample orographic lift similar to the Wasatch. While the Keweenaw is not as high as the Wasatch, the air is much colder to start with. The result is often champagne powder, the kind that is so light you can blow a foot of it off your car in the morning. You couple that snow with a new resort (Mt Bohemia)that has NO beginner terrain, little blue terrain and is rated 57% double black diamond and you have a recipe for fantastic extreme skiing in the midwest. The Keweenaw is basaltic bedrock, 4 billion years old, its one of the few areas where the Laurentian Shield is exposed at ground level. The whole area is very rugged and loaded with cliffs. I skied Mt. Bohemia in the 70's long before anyone thought of making a resort out of it. At the time, I considered Mt. Bohemia to be very dangerous with many hidden rock bands too high to huck. Mt Bohemia was as tough as anything I skied at Crested Butte.
The Keweenaw gets two kinds of crud. One is the normal crud everyone thinks of and the other is something like windblown slab but with much sharper crystals of snow making it almost impossible to slide a ski through it. Most of the time the temps in the Keweenaw are too low to reach melting and the sun does not shine in the winter but the winds blow hard. I use to think the perfect temperature for skiing in the Keweenaw was around 4 degrees F. Those conditions existed quite often. The major difference between the Keweenaw and Utah, is the major lack of sun and the daily warm up in the afternoon. This also means that the 300" of snow that they receive stays on the ground all winter without melting. By late march the compressed snow is 8 feet deep in you're yard.
post #47 of 89
Gonz, enough of this. Check your PM's in my profile. I tried twice to send you one. Hopefully the second time worked.
post #48 of 89
boy, some feistyness in this thread. I'm not sure I want to get myself into it, but I may have something worthwhile to add.

Where to start? Maybe I'll work backward.
On the ski, I must say, I'm with matter on that one (as much I hate to go against the grain). Last years xxx was a fun ski in all lengths except 193, which was demanding. I put some clients on it with success. It was loads easier to ski than say a volkl g41 or atomic 10ex. The new one is much more demanding.
As far as crud, it can describe just about anything between powder and snow packed into hardpack or bumps. Every region has a variety of definitions, and lots of other discriptions for the in between condions, but I felt you adequately described your situation, Aux.

As far as useful feedback. You've got some worthwhile stuff here. It sounds to me like you may be too much on top of your skis. If you find a radius where the speed is comfortable, you may work on trying to move the skis out from under you body early. then as you bring them back under you (x under, or x over) be sure to have enough anticipation or counter to create some redirection for you once you release your previous turn. In this way, you seperate you body from the changes of resistance and speed assoc. with the snow you mentioned. The anticipated postion then allows you to launch the new turn without alot of effort. If this touches a nerve, and you have other questions, let me know. Last point, yes it is more difficult, but you can make slow turns in in difficult cut up powder or crud. Yes, speed can be your friend and make things much easier, but it is not necessary.

Anyway, just my thoughts,
cheers, Holiday
post #49 of 89
Aux

Bust through is the way to go. Driving the skis through a strong arc and "attacking" the snow is the way to go. The "attack" does not have to be wild and aggressive but rather strong, smooth and relaxed dynamically. A centred stance and independant pressure control on parallel steered skis is also required. Up unweighting can be useful to establish rythmn and timing as well as allow you to be objective to the piles of crud you encounter. Keep at it an stay loose in the upper body and steer strongly from the core and legs. Crud will take more effort. When you master your local stuff you will be ready for Oz "powder".

Ignore all the "thisskithatski" talk it is just a smoke screen. You choice of skis is fine. Get out there and charge.

Oz [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #50 of 89
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by man from oz:
Aux

Ignore all the "thisskithatski" talk it is just a smoke screen. You choice of skis is fine. Get out there and charge.

Oz [img]smile.gif[/img]
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

wheeeeewww doggy. someone finally sees the light. I've had a better day in here today than quite a few on the river last summer. I'm trying to decide whether the bull trout was Sammich, Matter or Auxcrinier. Didn't sacrifice a single fly to the river gods.
post #51 of 89
Come on guys we just went through this. Please cool it..

Thanks.

Aux--

We get a lot of cut up heavy crud here in CA Tahoe.. A couple of weeks ago we had a pretty solid rain after several feet of wet snow so I suspect you we had simular conditions.

It will tire you out. No question there..

suggestions?

1. Make sure you have a good coat of wax on your skis.

2. work on your balance. specificly your core balance. You really need to stay right on top of your skis. Not back/ not forward but right in the middle..

3. Take a little more athletic stance, maybe a little lower than when skiing groomers.

4. I find unweighting really helps in wet crud. so a lift up of the arm (the one reaching for the pole plant) as you initiate your turn to help you get your skis out of the crud.

5. Practice patience. your skis will not come around as quickly and movements like in powder need to be moderate.

6. Attitude helps too. If you keep thinking "Oh NO, Crud" it will put you in a defensive position. If you can get the mind set of "Look out Crud, Here I come" and be more offensive in your skiing this should help too.

and of course practice/practice/practice..
post #52 of 89
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gonzostrike:
on the river last summer.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You going boating again soon?
post #53 of 89
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Irulan:
oh, yeah,... you gotta keep your speed up to blow through the uneveness of it, slowness will doom you to getting stopped.

Irulan
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
truer words not spoken.

can be as good as untracked sometimes if not to set up & on the right slope

post #54 of 89
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by man from oz:


You going boating again soon?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

eh, no... gave up ww kayaking after 2 fun seasons, shoulders couldn't take it any more. I was speaking about fishing.
post #55 of 89
Gonz, can't say you appear to be much of a fly fisherman. The idea is to make a subtle presentation of the fly rather than your jig 'n gaff approach. Maybe you should be thinkin of taking up deepsea fishin on a party boat?

I just read Pierre's comments on the XXX and Xscream from last year and was ashamed to find out that i'm JUST ANOTHER GAPER - I own both skis. I had no idea that a user-friendly ski signifys that it's probably designed for people with weaker technical ability... or worse, that the skis promote sloppy ability because "they allow people to get away with poor technique".

Gosh, this just changes everything about my concept of progress in equipment. I loved switching over to a 'Big Bertha' driver a decade ago because my slice instantly disappeared... and I loved going to a larger faced tennis racquet in the 70's because that bigger sweet spot improved my game so dramatically and just made me want to play more 'n more. But now, I finally understand that these larger 'sweet spots' are just crutches to help hide my inferior abilities!

...I can't help wonder, though, why professional golfers, professional tennis players, and professional freeskiers bother to use these crutches as well? Maybe it's because they want to hide the fact their ability is lacking and they're unable to admit what they really need is a good lesson by an instructor with superior technique... :
post #56 of 89
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cheap seats:
Gonz, can't say you appear to be much of a fly fisherman. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who said anything about flies (unles you can get a fly to carry a stick of dynamite)!
Light the fuse then stand back and literally 'catch' the fish!

Maybe it's because they want to hide the fact their ability is lacking and they're unable to admit what they really need is a good lesson by an instructor with superior technique.

IMHO I've yet to meet any intelligent sportsman who thinks they don't need help from others to improve - why else do pros have coaches? it's not necessarily about being superior, it's about being able to spot a weakness and suggest a solution.

S
post #57 of 89
Gonz, can't say you appear to be much of a fly fisherman. The idea is to make a subtle presentation of the fly rather than your jig 'n gaff approach. Maybe you should be thinkin of taking up deepsea fishin on a party boat?



nice one, cheaps.

don't forget - there are certain fishes that don't respond to flies. most are "trash fish" that are slow-moving creatures resembling prehistoric life forms, preferring warm, murky and low-oxygen water. while tolerant of pollution, these fish are not highly evolved -- mainly because they have survived for centuries on low-oxygen water, and evolutionary steps depend largely on brain and heart development, which really can't occur with a poorly oxygenated environment.

post #58 of 89
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gonzostrike:
... and evolutionary steps depend largely on brain and heart development, which really can't occur with a poorly oxygenated environment.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


That's It! You know I always knew there had to be some correlation between the air quality in DC and the mental ability of politicians

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 22, 2002 10:15 AM: Message edited 1 time, by JohnH ]</font>
post #59 of 89
Howdy John!

I'm skiing this year without ACL anti-rotation braces on EITHER leg. Both feel very stable. Improved muscle strength and improved technical skills have left me much more confident in the knees' stability. I wonder if I'll ever use a brace again!

How's life back in the DC area?
post #60 of 89
Hi Gonz! It Sucks!! It's going to be 57 degrees today! Got any jobs left in Montana?

I've always been an advocate (as you well know) of not using braces when skiing. There is no substitute for leg strength, and not only that, but having that constant reminder that your legs are somehow not 100% is just a distraction. Of course, the first time you fall and blow out of a toe piece and realize it didn't hurt your knee, is a big confidence builder.
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