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New skis are almost perfect...any suggestions

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I bought '07 left over Elan Magfire 10's at 168cm last season. I really like them but....they are soooo heavy, I get tired more quickly than I would like to.

I ski typical east coast hard-pack and ice. I am usually at Hunter, sometimes Windham or the Birkshires. I ski medium radius turns all blues and blacks. No bumps, off piste, or double diamonds.

Anything ski similar to these but not as heavy?

I was thinking Fischer Rx8?

Thanks,

Scott
post #2 of 24
Fischers are lighter, but you should be standing on the skis not carrying them. What are you doing that you have to work against the weight of the skis.

Maybe you are just making more turns with them
post #3 of 24
If you are just carving the weight should be less of an issue, you sure you just don't have the weight or muscle to drive them?
post #4 of 24
Carving would make them seem lighter.
post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 
I have improved greatly in a short time, so perhaps I am carving more than before, I am also on alot steeper terrain too. I just feel like I am working too hard relative to the guys I am skiing with. They are significantly better skiers, both ex-instructors, I am an aspiring hack at this point...good form and nice turns, I just need hours on the mountain.

I guess what I am saying is they make it look effortless, and when we meet at the bottom I am huffing and puffing and they are not. I feel I am working too hard - their form and technique I assume is better than mine. They both said my form and stance are good, my turns are nice, no washing out....they feel my thighs are just out of skiing shape. Why I am so out of breath, I do not know. I am in good shape, cardio several times a week for 45 minutes at NYSC.

Any thoughts; I thought because my skiis are heavy compared to theirs, this might be the issue...I am working harder to "horse them around." They are skiing on Atomic race skis and Elan ripsticks respectively.
post #6 of 24
I don't think it's the skis. I had a pair of Mag 12's that were heavy, but the only time I noticed the weight was when carrying them. Otherwise, they were great skis.

I am in good shape, go to the gym 4-5 times a week, etc, but I still get thigh burn when skiing steep long trails over about 2000' vertical. I have sort of concluded that skiing 25-35 days a year isn't really enough to develop those muscles like I'd want. Perhaps there is an excercise/workout that will target them like skiing does, and we just need to find it.

IMO, the RX-8 takes more skill to ski correctly. The Mag 10 pretty much skis itself, the 12 was a little more technical. The RX-8 is much carvier than both of them, and much less versatile as a result.
post #7 of 24
Scott,

I think there is something technical amiss. If they are not huffing,puffing and you are, they are doing something radically different from what you are doing.

They are both ex-instructors, so maybe they'd be willing to let you in on it?
post #8 of 24
Have a look at their turn radius and speed.
Long looping turns taking advantage of terrain to keep speed down or letting the speed increase but not turning too sharp at speed versus a lot of tight high g turns. Scarving round turns with flat skis to keep speed down versus carving with big angles.
post #9 of 24
Thread Starter 
Ghost - they say I need to relax, I am too tense. Otherwise the only difference I can see that is OBVIOUS, is that I am making more turns than they are to keep my speed at what is "comfortable" for me.
post #10 of 24
Scott - It sounds like you & I are at a similar level in skill. I tend to experience quite a bit of thigh burn at times.

At ESA Stowe this past year, Weems told me that I was starting my turns OK, but not finishing properly and therefore skidding a lot through the second half of my turns to control speed.

Now I'm trying to focus more on finishing my turns and I *think* (too soon to say with absolute certainty) that it's helping with the fatigue.
post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott K View Post
Ghost - they say I need to relax, I am too tense. Otherwise the only difference I can see that is OBVIOUS, is that I am making more turns than they are to keep my speed at what is "comfortable" for me.
What you are probably doing is establishing an edge angle and standing against it, straining against the skidding skis to stay in balance. I'm guessing your turns are more like a series of linked skids. Essentially making a turn into a curved hockey stop.

What is likely missing is the tipping of the skis to start the turn, continuing to tip as the turn progresses and a relaxed flexion to end the turn and start tipping the other way......

If that's true, only a lesson with a well qualified instructor will solve it. There are too many variables to guess about. A good video of your skiing would help narrow things down.
post #12 of 24
BigE hit it on the head I think.....

also...another point to consider---not technique related but important

My coach had to keep reminding me to breathe. Once that became more natural I was WAY less winded while skiing.

I forget to breathe in challenging situations still---but manage to remind my self---turn , turn, turn, breathe turn ---- or whistle or sing! yeeps! .

I agree with everyone else that it is probably not the ski. Miy current go to ski is an Atomic SL 11 and they are quite heavy to carry but I have no sensation of weight while actually skiing.
post #13 of 24
I have a few skis with different weights. There are only 4 times I really notice heavy skis: carrying them, skating up hill, on long chair lifts with no footrests, and in the bumps. Otherwise, weight is not too critical. Usually I prefer the heavier skis because they are smoother and they plow through crud with less deflection.

As others have mentioned there are many technique issues that would contribute to you being so tired. I might suggest good breathing, relaxing, and let the skis do the work.
post #14 of 24
Boot balance could be an issue, if you are overflexed your quads will be overworked. If you are hop turning(steep or bumpy terrain) versus carving, a heavy ski will add to the physical effort required. Tension will definitely add to the effort required but skiing gets easier physically when you have a lot of mileage like your partners do.
post #15 of 24
It isn't so much the skis. It's your conditioning. The guys your skiing with chances are have skied more in one season then you have in your lifetime if there ex instructors. The muscles that count in skiing have been built up over years with them and conditioned during that time.

It's like traing to run a marthon with a marthon runner and saying maybe your shoes aren't right as your tired after 5 miles.

Another small part of it to is just adjusting yourself and ski style to your new skis. Chances are your putting more effort in with your new skis because they ski differently then what you've been use to. When there telling you to relax chances are they mean let the ski do the work. Learn how the ski carves and become one with the ski like you where on your last pair of skis. Might take part of a season to really understand and get the feel of your new ski. Always takes me a good half season to really get comfortable on new set of skis.


Just stick with it and maybe mix in some exercises design for building ski muscles.
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott K View Post
Ghost - they say I need to relax, I am too tense. Otherwise the only difference I can see that is OBVIOUS, is that I am making more turns than they are to keep my speed at what is "comfortable" for me.
More turns at speed = more work.
More work against friction to keep your speed down = more work.

I'm sure they would like you to believe they are supermen and you are a wimp, but if you are going fast pure arc carving a zillion more turns, then you are working harder. If you are putting on the brakes all the time instead of going fast enough for air friction to work, you are woking harder.

Just let the skis skid in the top portion of the turns without resisting the motion or let the skis run and it will require less effort. I'm not so sure how fast you can let those Mag 10s run before they become unsafe though.
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott K View Post
I guess what I am saying is they make it look effortless, and when we meet at the bottom I am huffing and puffing and they are not. I feel I am working too hard - their form and technique I assume is better than mine.
You've answered your own question. Keep the skis and get $900 worth of lessons.
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier_j View Post
BigE hit it on the head I think.....

also...another point to consider---not technique related but important

My coach had to keep reminding me to breathe. Once that became more natural I was WAY less winded while skiing.


I forget to breathe in challenging situations still---but manage to remind my self---turn , turn, turn, breathe turn ---- or whistle or sing! yeeps! .
ScottK, this is extremely good advice. I see this all the time at Jackson Hole - a skier comes to a pitch that might be a bit challenging for them and they'll basically hold their breath down most of the pitch. They're not even aware that they're doing this.

While I'm sure that you could benefit from instruction and/or developing a more efficient technique, don't rule out this very simple idea. Your muscles need oxygen and they won't get it if you're not breathing. Try to get in the habit of consciously EXHALING at the end of every turn. If you exhale, you can't help but inhale right afterwards.

See if that doesn't help a little.
post #19 of 24
this is a valid point probably not mentioned enough, the harder you work, the more of a natural tendency there is not to breathe.

This is equally noticeable in weightlifters new to the sport, I did it years ago, until I was taught to exhale while bringing the weight down, exhale when pushing the weight up. For skiing I notice myself not breathing until I remind myself, hey I`m not breathing, of coarse this is only when you are working hard, like the hill just got steeper, and you are going faster, for example.

I guess exhale at the peek of effort, and theninhale

as Bob says, I guess you need to exhale at the end of the turn or maybe slightly earlier, so that you can inhale during the shift, when there is a slight break for the body, just before the new turn. you don`t want to try and inhale while exerting.
post #20 of 24
Thread Starter 
I just bought a four-pack of lessons - Lets see what comes of it.

Thank you all
post #21 of 24

Watea 78's

I can get the Watea 78's (2008) brand new for $249 out the door. Is this a great buy and if so which bindings do I buy?
post #22 of 24
168's? are really tiny.

i was once on a ski lift at stowe and some really hard core local was busting my balls so hard. i was like 17 back then and the old dude was like " boy, long skis truck, and short skis suck!" and then he jumped off the lift into a huge puff of pow and was out. we were all like who was that guy wow was he cool.
post #23 of 24
Scott - 2 points:

1 - If you think it's the gear, I've got a near-new pair of RX8's on the swap section, 170cm, and located nearby as you know. I can't compare directly to the Magfires but they have a much lighter feel than Ripsticks, and I think you know the RX6's well enough to extrapolate.

2 - IMHO when I feel beat or winded like you're describing, it's because I'm using a lot of muscles, and in a tense posture. Might want to ask your instructor to focus on "stacking up" on your bones rather than relying on muscles -- a concept I got from The All Mountain Skier by R. Mark Elling (http://www.amazon.com/All-Mountain-S.../dp/007140841X). That book was/is pretty helpful in teaching/reminding me to use bones and gravity as much or more than muscle. I think there's a full chapter on stance and a lot of attention to it in the other sections as well.
post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchunglava View Post
168's? are really tiny.

i was once on a ski lift at stowe and some really hard core local was busting my balls so hard. i was like 17 back then and the old dude was like " boy, long skis truck, and short skis suck!" and then he jumped off the lift into a huge puff of pow and was out. we were all like who was that guy wow was he cool.

 

Probably Stu.

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