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Krkwood Master Plan

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
sum funny stuff in here:


Nestled in the Sierra Nevada Mountains of California, Kirkwood Mountain Resort is making its mark as a destination ski resort and real estate investment site.

"It is by California standards remote … It's on a major highway that is the only scenic highway open year-round in the trans-Sierra route that never has traffic," says Tim Cohee President of Kirkwood Mountain Resort and Kirkwood Mountain Realty.

The ski town also boasts a relaxing, spacious environment.

"The resort does not have [long] lift lines and has a world class reputation for terrain and snow. The densities are low. There will never ever be any form of crowding of any type," adds Cohee.

If this all sounds too good to be true, Cohee has an explanation, "From a visual perspective Kirkwood is an island." He says Kirkwood is basically self-sufficient, producing its own propane, operating its own sewer and water systems, and there is no privately-owned land available for development for approximately 25 miles surrounding the area.

That's why the town itself is considered one of the prime developing ski resorts in the Tahoe region. Three new real estate projects: Thunder Mountain Lodge condos are the first phase of the new Timber Creek Village, a ski-in and ski-out village; Sentinels West town homes; and The Palisades, homes located between two high-speed quad chairlifts -- the new Timber Creek Express and the Cornice Express -- already have waiting lists for purchasing.

Thunder Mountain Lodge is priced between the low $700,000s to $1.5 million. Sentinels West, which has only released four units of nearly 20, is priced between $1.3-$1.5 million, and The Palisades are priced at $650,000 to $1 million.

Other developing ski resort towns such as Squaw Valley, North Star and Sugar Bowl sell for higher price per square foot than Kirkwood currently does, according to Cohee. With booming real estate needs, Kirkwood is careful to stick to its master plan so that the area doesn't become overcrowded and lose its charm.

"Along with strict build-out guidelines in place, future terrain expansion will also ensure that growth in ski-able acres will exceed the growth in residential population," said Cohee. "This way we protect Kirkwood's soul as well as buyers' investments," says Cohee.

Cohee says while the population will grow by 40 percent, ski lift capacity will grow 60 percent and mountain capacity will grow 100 percent.

"You're already talking about the lowest lift line and density issues in the country. You're taking an already amazingly uncrowded experience, considering you're three hours from seven million people, and you're going to make it even better," says Cohee.

Future plans also include a private residence club similar to Deer Valley in Park City, Utah where you have five-star living and ski valet service.

"Private residence club has become hugely popular because it allows people plenty of ownership use at their home resort, while also being able to exchange to other resorts and, in essence, enjoy five-star living at a fraction of the price," explains Cohee.
post #2 of 27
Lol...especially like the part about never ever any form of crowding of any type!
post #3 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post
Lol...especially like the part about never ever any form of crowding of any type!
Except on the weekends.
post #4 of 27
Quote:
That's why the town itself is considered one of the prime developing ski resorts in the Tahoe region.
Did he say town?
post #5 of 27
He was right about the mountain growth, though. I was truly surprised to see what has been pulled off.

So... while all you locals bitch about the valley-ites intruding, you know damn well the gapers are not intruding where the mtn growth is going.

If you call yourself a local, and you can't find fresh/sick lines at the wood, you're a complete moron.

Weekends are for work. Everybody knows that. Weekends are not for skiing if you're a local at any resort.

This argument never seizes to amaze me. It's more rampant on TGR, but most of those guys are valley-ites anyway.
post #6 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post
He was right about the mountain growth, though. I was truly surprised to see what has been pulled off.

So... while all you locals bitch about the valley-ites intruding, you know damn well the gapers are not intruding where the mtn growth is going.

If you call yourself a local, and you can't find fresh/sick lines at the wood, you're a complete moron.

Weekends are for work. Everybody knows that. Weekends are not for skiing if you're a local at any resort.

This argument never seizes to amaze me. It's more rampant on TGR, but most of those guys are valley-ites anyway.

Tahoe's been a bay area suburb for years. Kirkwood just gets crowdeder and crowdeder every year
post #7 of 27
The whole world gets crowdeder and crowdeder every year.

This is not unique to the wood, or Tahoe... as much as some would [prefer to] believe.

Just be thankful the terrain is opening. That's quite rare, actually. That's usually the very very last thing to expand.
post #8 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post
The whole world gets crowdeder and crowdeder every year.

This is not unique to the wood, or Tahoe... as much as some would [prefer to] believe.

Just be thankful the terrain is opening. That's quite rare, actually. That's usually the very very last thing to expand.

like the new lifts really did any good any way. How many days last year did the lifts not turn at all due to no electricity.

Lets run a whole ski resort on a diesel generator. Brilliant
post #9 of 27
You're right. They never should have built a resort in a place that has to supply its own power. They should have just NOT put any chairs in. Or any lodging for that matter. Then maybe you'd be at another resort bitching about other crowds.

How much are pass prices these days? 6 Bones? That's cheaper than a pair of skis for one of the longest seasons in the country. That's paid off in less than 9 days of skiing.

About 10 years ago Cohee gave a speech to all the employees just before opening day. He told everyone to pack their local attitude and go home. He told everyone that if they weren't into helping the tourists, or if they showed any 'locals only' bs, that they would be fired on the spot. That was a really good speech... it put all the leeches in their place. I'm sure things have changed since my time, they always do... but I sure as hell wish I had the patrol support in the terrain you guys have today... not to mention the lifts. Opening that terrain, keeping it safe, blowing it up, and providing support is like opening a whole new resort, mate.

Do you have any idea how many decades Cohee has been trying to get the legal bureaucracy passed to give you that? Do you know how long Expedition Kirkwood has been in the making to provide avi-training and support to the community and its youth so safe b/c riding would be available for our kids?

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

Wwwaaaaaaayy out of line, imo.

(*this is not a personal attack because gnar420 is an alias... who should really think about moving back to the midwest.)
post #10 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post

... but I sure as hell wish I had the patrol support in the terrain you guys have today... not to mention the lifts. Opening that terrain, keeping it safe, blowing it up, and providing support is like opening a whole new resort, mate.
quick honest question .... what terrain does the patrol support now that they didn't support then? What terrain do they patrol now that they didn't then? They really didn't open any new terrain with these new lifts....they just put in new lifts to terrain that was already patrolled and bombed (i.e. Lookout Vista and Fawn Ridge). I am confused.....
post #11 of 27
Thread Starter 
Kirkwood is biting the hands that feeds them brah. How many days last year did the lifts not turn on bluebird days? Lets close the backside earlier and earlier every year. Lets put in 2 surface lifts that do absolutely nothing because you still have to hike after your done with them.

Its a shame, Kirkwood could have been a great resort, but cohee got all greedy with the development. Lets have a dieseiel generator for electricity so we can be off the grid and charge whatever we want for electric to homeowners.

I don't know what 88 you have driven, but itds just as much as a sh!tshow as 50 or 80.

I am not a troll!
post #12 of 27
I skied Kirkwood a few times back in the early '80's. One time we were skiing down and noticed there was no one behind us. The lift had stopped. We looked around and saw that all lifts had stopped. Power was out for about an hour in the middle of a calm, sunny day. I also remember thinking it was kind of a PITA to get to the best terrain. Sounds like things haven't changed all that much.

I always assumed they were off the grid because they were so remote there were no power lines.
post #13 of 27
Thread Starter 
lets not forget the $20 dollar parking. What other resorts charges fricking $20 to park?
post #14 of 27
Vail
post #15 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crank View Post
Vail
Their lifts usually run all day, no?

What other sierra resort charges $20 for parking?

I guess when your powder habit is a big as cohee's, every little bit helps
post #16 of 27
Mr Cohee is also president, founder, CEO, and CFO of the Inland Bridge Development group. Jump on board that one now before the word gets out and the smart money gets in.

"Be the first to on your block to own a piece of the dryland suspension bridge that will soon connect point A to uhhhhhhmmm........ "


SJ
post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
quick honest question .... what terrain does the patrol support now that they didn't support then? What terrain do they patrol now that they didn't then? They really didn't open any new terrain with these new lifts....they just put in new lifts to terrain that was already patrolled and bombed (i.e. Lookout Vista and Fawn Ridge). I am confused.....
Lifts aren't just for riders. Patrol can now get to you faster when needed as well as get terrain opened faster. That is the point I was trying to iterate. With that support comes a change in attitude on the behalf of the patrol.

I'm curious, since the introduction of EK, and the Covered Wagon lift, how much more lax are they at you skinning California/Pipeline than they were before the expansion began? 10 years ago, these lifts were proposed to support California as well as Thunderbowl. EK was proposed to provide avi training to relax the insurance companies about people going OB. All of this was part of the same marketing. 10 years ago, the expansion (funded by the lodging) was all about getting that terrain supported by patrol.

20$ parking is a crock of crap. There are several other reasons why I had no problem leaving the place. I'm just happy to see the dreams we were pushing a decade ago are actually coming into fruition. Makes we wonder if Thunderbowl will actually have a lift out some day.

Everyone has every right to question Cohee's motives. Just understand that there is no lift-served skiing without the lodging and the crowds on weekends.
post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post
Lifts aren't just for riders. Patrol can now get to you faster when needed as well as get terrain opened faster. That is the point I was trying to iterate. With that support comes a change in attitude on the behalf of the patrol.
gotcha...I hear what you're saying now. although a snowmobile (if one's available that is) can get out to those area quicker than these new lifts.

The new surface lifts are strange. For instance, the Covered Wagon surface lift...it doesn't even go all the way up to the top of Covered Wagon peak. It stops short a few hundred yards from the top, so really, you can schuss halfway up along the length of this left by tucking from the top of Chair 4. And this lift is split in two. You go up halfway, then get off, ski down and over 15 feet, board an adjacent surface lift and you're there. It saves maybe 5 minutes of hiking max.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai
I'm curious, since the introduction of EK, and the Covered Wagon lift, how much more lax are they at you skinning California/Pipeline than they were before the expansion began?
Not sure. I've only been going to West Shore/California/Pipeline and beyond for I guess just the past 5 - 6 years I guess (Thunderbowl too). And in this entire timeframe, they've been pretty lax. As long as the signs are turned (rather than saying 'closed boundary') you're good to go. They've turning the signs usually a day or so after the last storm, so usually allowing a day or so for the snowpack to settle, maybe a little longer if it's extraordinary circumstances or snowfall.
post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
Not sure. I've only been going to West Shore/California/Pipeline and beyond for I guess just the past 5 - 6 years I guess (Thunderbowl too). And in this entire timeframe, they've been pretty lax. As long as the signs are turned (rather than saying 'closed boundary') you're good to go. They've turning the signs usually a day or so after the last storm, so usually allowing a day or so for the snowpack to settle, maybe a little longer if it's extraordinary circumstances or snowfall.
Turning signs 1-2 days after a storm is incredibly lax. Those signs used to be shut until March/corn season. "It's February! No, you can't go! Are you out of your mind?" It's probably more of a coincidence that a result of EK, though. Which is fine.

Could bringing the surface-lift at Covered wagon to the peak handle the wind abuse? That's the only justification I can think of for it being so ghey. Sounds like more of a bonus to patrollers. I remember having to post-hole out there with 30lbs of bombs on my back. All rookies got that route on bomb day for the wind abuse. Red cliffs also sucked for hiking. But at least you got 10 turns in before dropping into the restaurant. Vista sucked too. Vista equalled hiking, bombing, cutting, then 3 turns, then skating. Corbet's was the money draw (supervisors) and wagon wheel was only for those non-rookies not being punished.

I don't miss avi-control at the wood. There is nothing worse than being a patroller on a pow-day at the wood.

However, I do miss saying: "I'm pretty sure that snow above the rockband on the wall needs to be cut. I'll be back in 20." There is a reason that patch of snow goes unbombed, btw... assuming the cornice hasn't grown.

I also miss having finished those days. I used to go to bed at 7. Yeah, 7. When I was there, we had 36 days straight of avi-conrtrol. Somewhere around day 25 Cohee came onto our radio and told all the patrollers to finish their avi route, then take no less than 3 runs on their own. That was a kind radio message. We didn't open chairs until around 11. And- it was sunny. He knew he wasn't paying us enough... so he gave us a powder day to open at our own will.

Anyway...
post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post
Turning signs 1-2 days after a storm is incredibly lax. Those signs used to be shut until March/corn season. "It's February! No, you can't go! Are you out of your mind?" It's probably more of a coincidence that a result of EK, though. Which is fine.
Yeah, I skied a very bony West Shore lap between Christmas and New Years this year during a break in the only real storm cycle we've had yet this year. It was maybe 2 days after the last storm and I remember the morning Tahoe avy report saying that avi conditions were 'moderate' that day. I was surprised to see the gates turned so soon. But there they were...

Quote:
Could bringing the surface-lift at Covered wagon to the peak handle the wind abuse? That's the only justification I can think of for it being so ghey.
Yeah possibly. That's one of the reasons me and my crew discussed it not going all the way to the top....wind. Not sure though.
post #21 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post
Turning signs 1-2 days after a storm is incredibly lax. Those signs used to be shut until March/corn season. "It's February! No, you can't go! Are you out of your mind?" It's probably more of a coincidence that a result of EK, though. Which is fine.

Could bringing the surface-lift at Covered wagon to the peak handle the wind abuse? That's the only justification I can think of for it being so ghey. Sounds like more of a bonus to patrollers. I remember having to post-hole out there with 30lbs of bombs on my back. All rookies got that route on bomb day for the wind abuse. Red cliffs also sucked for hiking. But at least you got 10 turns in before dropping into the restaurant. Vista sucked too. Vista equalled hiking, bombing, cutting, then 3 turns, then skating. Corbet's was the money draw (supervisors) and wagon wheel was only for those non-rookies not being punished.

I don't miss avi-control at the wood. There is nothing worse than being a patroller on a pow-day at the wood.

However, I do miss saying: "I'm pretty sure that snow above the rockband on the wall needs to be cut. I'll be back in 20." There is a reason that patch of snow goes unbombed, btw... assuming the cornice hasn't grown.

I also miss having finished those days. I used to go to bed at 7. Yeah, 7. When I was there, we had 36 days straight of avi-conrtrol. Somewhere around day 25 Cohee came onto our radio and told all the patrollers to finish their avi route, then take no less than 3 runs on their own. That was a kind radio message. We didn't open chairs until around 11. And- it was sunny. He knew he wasn't paying us enough... so he gave us a powder day to open at our own will.

Anyway...

Classic. So those of us who payed and drove a long way have to wait for the patrol to get done joy riding?

What other resorts take untill 11pm to open on a powder day?
post #22 of 27
It wasn't routine, mate.
post #23 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahoegnar420 View Post
Classic. So those of us who payed and drove a long way have to wait for the patrol to get done joy riding?

What other resorts take untill 11pm to open on a powder day?
If you don't like it, don't go.
post #24 of 27
Wait, I'm confused. Is this an anti-Kirkwood thread? Because I always hear that this mountain is amazing.
post #25 of 27
It is.
post #26 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post
Weekends are for work. Everybody knows that. Weekends are not for skiing if you're a local at any resort.
Troof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post
You're right. They never should have built a resort in a place that has to supply its own power. They should have just NOT put any chairs in. Or any lodging for that matter. Then maybe you'd be at another resort bitching about other crowds.
Building an entire resort without access to power is pretty freakin' indefensible and silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnargnar420
What other resorts take untill 11pm to open on a powder day?
Are you for serial? Most of the ones that don't suck, in my experience. Opening gnarly terrain takes time.
post #27 of 27

The Tahoe Bay Area

There are 1,561,000 people in Idaho, most of those live in the Boise area and that leaves all those No. Idaho ski areas to ME.

Enjoy the California/Bay Area/Weekend/Holiday/Put the skis away for 2 week during Christmas vacation stories/gripes. LOL

Thanks for the memories - makes me appreciate what I ski.
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