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Morton's Neuroma, solved - Page 2

post #31 of 54

The nerves to the toes are between the metatarsals (foot bones). Morton's neuromas occur because the nerves are pinched between the bones.  The pain and /or numbness are in the toes affected. (There are other causes of pain in the bottom of the foot itself.)  The simple treatment is 1) looser boots to keep from squeezing the bones together.  On a 4 buckle boot I have found I can keep the lower buckle just tight enough to not open without affecting performance, as long as the other 3 buckles are snug, and I will usually not get pain. A metatarsal pad placed behind the metatarsal heads--the prominent bones just back of the toes of which the ball of the foot is the largest--causes the bones to spread apart sideways, if there is enough room in the boot. If attaching the pad to an insole use a thin insole to keep from making the boot tighter than it already is. I have tried the gel pads which are too soft to work--firm felt pads work better.  In some boots and shoes I have found that an arch support, like off the shelf Superfeet, makes things worse, not better. When it gets bad enough (for me that's hiking, not skiing) I have found that striking myself upside the head with a trekking pole or ice ax temporarily relieves the foot pain, at the risk of chronic traumatic encephalopathy.

post #32 of 54

In spring, I'd often take my boots off and stand around in the snow to relieve the pain. Wet feet back into socks and into boots wasn't so blissful though.  standing around teaching made it so much worse, first timers in spring was almost guaranteed to be a boots-off-feet-in-the-snow day.

post #33 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant View Post

In spring, I'd often take my boots off and stand around in the snow to relieve the pain. Wet feet back into socks and into boots wasn't so blissful though.  standing around teaching made it so much worse, first timers in spring was almost guaranteed to be a boots-off-feet-in-the-snow day.

& I thought it was only me wink.gif
post #34 of 54

Yep, done that.  Yank the boots off at the top of the lift and feel the relief, trying to balance on the top of the boot so as to not get socks in the snow. 

 

My bootfitter made me another pair of footbeds this October and the Morton's neuroma problem in both feet has totally disappeared.  Not all bootfitters are "pretend."

post #35 of 54

I also suffer from a Morton's Neuroma in my left foot.  At times it was so bad it would bring tears to my eyes.  I tired the pad under my foot for a while with limited success.  Last summer I bit the bullet and tried a new techinique called radio frequency ablasion.  It was an outpatient procedure where they litterally nuke the nerve inside the foot with microwaves.  Recovery time is very short.  You are up and walking the same day and virtually back to normal with only minor soreness the next day.  After I had it done, I was totally painless for about 3 months and then it slowly started up again.  My Dr. had already warned me that sometimes it takes 2-3 treatments to be fully successful.  That first 3 months felt so good that I agreed to a 2nd procedure in early December.  The results this time are saddly not as good.  I have had pain return within a month.  I have a follow up next week to discuss  a 3rd treatment and perhaps other options.

 

Fortunately for me, the pain ususally does not start while I am skiing, but as others have mentioned when I take the boots off.  It is not as bad as it was before the first procedure, but not where I want it to be.  Just yesterday my wife asked me if my foot was bothering me as I was limping.  It was.

 

What has helped for me is to also take about 600mg of Ibuprofen in the monring and 400mg at lunch.  I don't over tighten the forefoot of my ski boots.  For regular shoes I look for shoes with wider toeboxes like Keen's which fit me well and don't aggavate my condition.  I also find that it helps while skiing to concentrate on keeping that foot relaxed in the boot.  It will act up quickly if I feel my feet tense.

 

I find it very ironic that the cause of my neuroma was most likely caused by years of skiing in tight ski boots that I can no longer wear.

 

I still want to avoid full blown surgery, waiting for my appt. to decide what the next step should be.

 

Rick G

post #36 of 54

Nasty, Rick, yours sounds incredibly frustrating. Mine really struck mainly when doing a lot of flat-standing stuff, and when the feet swolled a bit in spring.  I'm guessing what you said about years in tight boots is the reason, your nerve has become inflamed and aggravated beyond repair.  

 

I have triple-E forefeet, and the heels of a 7-year old, so boots have always been an issue, but Atomic now make a comfy boot with rubbery side bits (which are already quite wide). I rented some in our spring, no alterations etc, and with my podiatrist orthotics in them, they skiied just fine. So much for all that bootfitting fussing around.  I'll be looking for a pair in Utah next week.. called Live Fits.  They rated well in this year's SKI magazine gear guide.  If you can lay your hands on a pair to rent, that *might* help. Probably wouldn't do for racing though!

post #37 of 54

mine just started about 2 months ago...the shoes i was wearing were a bit too tight at toes (only left foot)

 

thought initially it was from the lunges i was doing in the gym (you know the pressure you place on the front of the feet when

doing lunges, both front and rear)...then it got hugely painful when I was skiing ....had to stop skiing after a few hrs...friggin aweful.

 

so went back to my more square-toed walking/hiking shoes and it's helped....went to see a podiatrist this week, had xrays done (no arthritis or red flags)

...getting some orthodics made with that meta.... raised up for more support.

 

read an enlightening article, however, on how the jury is still out on orthodics effectiveness, even among experts (new york post)

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/17/do-orthotics-really-help/   but my benefits would cover the cost

and this guy (over 20 yrs podiatrist, huge kudos from his customers in rating him) only charges $230.

http://www.footankle.com/ball-of-foot-pain-orthotics.htm

 

i've opted for a full orthodic covering entire foot length...noted he made the inital cloth/plaster cast that my foot was resting on his knee, not flat on the ground...so no pressure on arches

(i have high arches, i've just found)....read in one of the articles above that is a good way to make them as the feet aren't as flattended due to the weight, thus the

built in arches would not be as effective as they'd be flatter).


Edited by canali - 1/25/13 at 4:53pm
post #38 of 54

I'm always fascinated by the supposed controversy regarding orthotics. They are hugely effective, if made properly by someone with a clue.  I lost the use of my feet in 2003 and was reduced to shuffling, due to an old festering achilles issue (tendonosis).  Fortunately stumbled on a podiatrist with a different attitude and technique, he starts the correction under the heel, directly under the tibia shaft.  I got my feet back, and could even break into a run after some months on them. I ski in them although they're walking orthotics, the balance I get with them in phenomenal. 

 

His treatment involved video of my feet through walking and running close-up (revolting to watch), and plaster casts made with my feet hanging down. Anyone who makes orthotics by pressing your feet down into a mould is just replicating your problems in the footbeds they make.  These orthotics are hard plastic, with massive posting under the heel. 

 

People who say podiatry is ineffective just aren't paying attention!

post #39 of 54

well i just picked up my first pair of orthodics today...felt weird at first putting them on...so much material in the arch...thought 'sheesh, don't know if i'll like these things'

...went for a 40 min walk (was told to not overdo it the first while)...and must admit the pain from my morton's neuroma almost disappeared  smile.gif

...by the end of the walk they didn't feel weird at all

...still icing the area daily...trying to walk more mid foot, and hopefully when i drop the 45 lb it'll make a difference to my overworked feet too.

 

my podiatrist has suggested bringing in my custom ski footbeds and he'll build up the metadarsial (??) area to help it...cost $20ish

(or it could get new custom ones done by fanatyko or surefoot at whistler)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ant View Post

I'm always fascinated by the supposed controversy regarding orthotics. They are hugely effective, if made properly by someone with a clue.  I lost the use of my feet in 2003 and was reduced to shuffling, due to an old festering achilles issue (tendonosis).  Fortunately stumbled on a podiatrist with a different attitude and technique, he starts the correction under the heel, directly under the tibia shaft.  I got my feet back, and could even break into a run after some months on them. I ski in them although they're walking orthotics, the balance I get with them in phenomenal. 

 

His treatment involved video of my feet through walking and running close-up (revolting to watch), and plaster casts made with my feet hanging down. Anyone who makes orthotics by pressing your feet down into a mould is just replicating your problems in the footbeds they make.  These orthotics are hard plastic, with massive posting under the heel. 

 

People who say podiatry is ineffective just aren't paying attention!

post #40 of 54

Kevin at Fanatyko was the first to diagnose my neuroma. I've seen a lot of boot fitters and IMHO, he's really good! Probably didn't hurt that I was with Lammers when I went in there though.

post #41 of 54

thanks

 

a further update....i went into kintec (foot clinic) in north vancouver and had some metadarsal pads placed into my 'conformable' custom ski footbeds

...hope they'll help out....only cost $15, done the same day...very nice staff at that kintec location.

 

as per my morton's neuroma it's now almost non existant since i've gotten my orthotics.

 

and while i was in kintec i thought i'd look into some supportive sandals when at home...my $5 'army and navy'

sandals with no support (totally flat with no arch or metadarsal support) weren't doing anything

and i was still constantly icing my foot at home....so i realized i had

to keep the treatment and recovery consistent at both in and out of the house.

 

so upon the suggestion of ny sales rep i actually bought some (gulp) ''birkenstock'' milano sandals. rolleyes.gif you know the famous ones with the cork

footbeds and metadarsal supports etc that conform to your feet....initally I thought ''$125 too expensive'', and i felt like some retired dude who should be knocking

back sambuca and eating octopus all day in greece or italy.....but low and behold no neuroma pain at all while wearing them...forgot i even had it.

another godsend on my way to recovery.

 

question to runners: i want to once again engage in walk/run (will look into a neutral but cushioned shoe)....how long should one wait before 

attempting such...or is it just play by ear and how the foot reacts?

post #42 of 54

How can people say orthotics are ineffective? Those of us who've got good ones know, it's not mental!   My orthotics are hard plastic, with a hollow arch, and all the work is under the heel, where the tibia comes down and joins the foot. My podiatrist is a bit different, and does his corrrections under the tibia, rather than under the arch. He reckons this lifts the foot and lines all the bones up so the whole foot can work properly.  It certainly worked spectacularly for me.  

 

They're not skiing footbeds, they're 2/3rds the foot for one thing, and made for walking so the hollow arch flexes with each step, but putting those into any boot, even rental boots, means I can ski.

 

Good success story there, Canali.

post #43 of 54

how can one say orthotics are ineffective? well that article I noted says alot:

this is not a hard and fast science where the approaches are all agreed upon.

 

all i can say is for me I'm happy and now a believer...lucky, however, that i had a podiatrist with over 20 yrs experience..

 

i also found out more about 'morton's toe' (where the 2nd toe beside the big toe is the actual longer one)

so still unsure if it's morton's toe (see link below) or morton's neuroma that is my issue...or both...

http://www.healthyfeetblog.com/mortons-neuroma-vs-mortons-toe

but only on my painful left foot is the toe longer...???

....seems when you lift off that lesser toe carries more weight and force (taking over the big toe's

responsibilities) hence messing up the muscle and nerves.

...i could actually see it on my birkenstocks cork footbed, too, where there is a big imprint of that 2nd toe.(actually the only imprint)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ant View Post

How can people say orthotics are ineffective? Those of us who've got good ones know, it's not mental!   My orthotics are hard plastic, with a hollow arch, and all the work is under the heel, where the tibia comes down and joins the foot. My podiatrist is a bit different, and does his corrrections under the tibia, rather than under the arch. He reckons this lifts the foot and lines all the bones up so the whole foot can work properly.  It certainly worked spectacularly for me.  

 

They're not skiing footbeds, they're 2/3rds the foot for one thing, and made for walking so the hollow arch flexes with each step, but putting those into any boot, even rental boots, means I can ski.

 

Good success story there, Canali.


Edited by canali - 2/12/13 at 4:10pm
post #44 of 54

well went skiing for first time with the new metatarsal pads in my conformable custom footbeds....no help....

experienced throbbing agony in left foot again at end of 2nd hr...had to quit.

...decided that i'll take the dalbello cross boots back to ski shop and have the left one punched out a bit, hoping it'll help

...seems my left foot is slightly larger and with the mortons' neuroma and a too tight ski boot i guess it doesn't make for a

happy partnership.

 

walking around, however, with my new orthotics and at home with my birkenstocks is keeping the neuroma pain at bay.....so

at least something good is occuring as the tweaks continue.

 

on another note, i just today decided to try the  hoka line of innovative runners

(weird yes, but oh so comfortable)...picked up stinson evo tarmac low

http://hokaoneone-na.com/stinson-tarmac-detail-men.html

review: http://samwinebaum.blogspot.ca/2012/08/first-review-hoka-one-one-stinson-evo.html

 

StinsonTarmac_BlueSilver.jpg

hell, just add some boot uppers and i could join Kiss.

kissboots.JPG


Edited by canali - 2/13/13 at 8:38pm
post #45 of 54

If your normal shoes are OK, but you get it in ski boots, I'd guess that the ski boots are crushing the foot width-ways. So punching them out should help. 

post #46 of 54

Thank you for this tip!  I also realized that bending my toes back provides me with instant relief.  After reading your post, I tried putting a foam pencil protector under the curl of my toes, with my sock on to keep it in place.  Perfect!  No more pain!
 

post #47 of 54

Thank you for this tip!  I also realized that bending my toes back provides me with instant relief.  After reading your post, I tried putting a foam pencil protector under the curl of my toes, with my sock on to keep it in place.  Perfect!  No more pain!
 

post #48 of 54

have heard some great things on kevan kobayashi at fanatyko / whistler.

will be seeing him in november.

 

i'm taking ice skating lessons starting next week,...will be interesting to see if my neuroma

starts to act up given skates can be as constrictive as ski boots...and from there will gauge things going forward.

 

i'm also down 25lb...another 20-25 to go....hopefully that weight loss will help, too.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHREDHEAD View Post
 

Kevin at Fanatyko was the first to diagnose my neuroma. I've seen a lot of boot fitters and IMHO, he's really good! Probably didn't hurt that I was with Lammers when I went in there though.

post #49 of 54

As another neuroma sufferer, I understand the issues.  Good on ya for losing 25 lbs!! That's a lot of work (been there, done that too).  

Best of luck for this upcoming season keeping the neuroma pain away.

As I mentioned upthread, my bootfitter made a new footbed that eliminated my neuroma issues totally.  Hope your visit to a bootfitter does the same for you.

post #50 of 54

Hi there, Thank you for posting this article. I was diagnosed with Morton’s Neuroma 5 months ago.I have had problems with this in both my feet, and sometimes it felt like stepping on an ice pick. I did some research and came across this article found it to be very interesting  http://teamdoctorsblog.com/2012/12/mortons-neuroma-self-help-tips-treatment-and-prevention-from-the-barefoot-running-doctor-at-team-doctors/ . Some of the self help tips really helped me.  There are also Video Tutorials on how you can relieve the pain in the article . It is explained in the article that the body can be compared to a human spring. We all know how a spring works. If you’re body is trained as a spring mechanism then you will be able to spring off the ground and resist impact

post #51 of 54

I admire your idea and will try it. I've ordered some pads, etc. and moleskin as my first attempts with what I have in the medicine cabinet are an abysmal failure. I can't get my foot into a shoe with the wrap on, no matter how thin I wrap it. One of the downsides of being a female is shoes fit differently to men.  Anyway, I respect your opinion of the medical profession, and agree we must all be our own doctor's, however they are not all quacks. My orthopedist who did my shoulder surgery was awesome and 10 years later it's better than pre-surgery. I will do everything to avoid surgery, etc. but need to walk and can't even walk well at this point.

post #52 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC Cowgirl View Post

I admire your idea and will try it. I've ordered some pads, etc. and moleskin as my first attempts with what I have in the medicine cabinet are an abysmal failure. I can't get my foot into a shoe with the wrap on, no matter how thin I wrap it. One of the downsides of being a female is shoes fit differently to men.  Anyway, I respect your opinion of the medical profession, and agree we must all be our own doctor's, however they are not all quacks. My orthopedist who did my shoulder surgery was awesome and 10 years later it's better than pre-surgery. I will do everything to avoid surgery, etc. but need to walk and can't even walk well at this point.
I don't have a neuroma, just a history of foot abuse, so my first advice would be to shop earnestly for shoes, any shoes, that are smart for your injury--in your case, that probably means a wide forefoot, and ample room for your pad to fit without aggravating the problem you're trying to fit. Even a pair of cheap walking shoes one size too big would let you experiment with the padding ideas!

Best of luck to you; Morton's sounds absolutely horrifying, but the message of this thread is that people do get relief, so chin up!
post #53 of 54

I have 100% solved my morton's neuroma and ski boot issue by inserting a gel toe spacer between the 3rd and 4th toes of my affected foot and taping it in place.  This solution also worked for a friend of mine.  I went from not being able to ski at all, to not even thinking about it.  This also decreased the pain in my hockey skates by about 95%.  If I really crank them down, skates can still irritate a bit but nothing like it was before the toe spacer.

post #54 of 54

YVRski, can you elaborate on your method?  I have gone the route of alcohol injections, and they seemed to do absolutely nothing.  Then had a boot fitter custom fit me with a pair of wider Head boots.  A bit better results, however I still only get about 3 hours on the slopes before I am DONE and in agony.  I am thinking I need to re-visit the boot fitter and make some more tweaks, but it wouldn't hurt to try your idea as well, just would like further info and instructions / product suggestions.  Thanks!

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