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demoing Mantra, Mythic and ...? - Page 2

post #31 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski-ra View Post

 

 

I kept thinking about what other skis I'd rather have for these moguls....

 P.S. I definitely wouldn't have wanted to have been on anything wider (i.e., the Watea 94's, even if they made them in a size for me, since they are less maneuverable and probably not any more damp).  So keep this in mind if you want your one-ski quiver to be good in the bumps (for me bumps are the greatest challenge so I'd pick a ski based on that criteria - I can make most skis work well-enough in deeper snow, but would not want to be forced to ski on lunch platters at mogul-hellacious Mary Jane).

post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by volklgirl View Post

 

This is going to sound weird, but if you liked the Mantra but found it too stiff, you may want to try the Aura. I own the 177 (no longer made) and chose it after demoing the Mantra in the 170 and finding it too stiff. Yes, I know it's a women's ski. However, at your weight, it may well be the answer for you. You can always spray paint it .

 The Aura is a pretty ski. I wouldn't spray paint it. Twintip had a matching outfit and had quite the cute setup.  I'll confirm that it bends nicely without lots of weight. It also slides well in moguls according to one esa coach who shall remain nameless but begins with Bob.


Edited by Tog - 2/13/2009 at 01:00 am
post #33 of 47
Thread Starter 

Ski-ra,

 

Thanks for the feedback. The more I read and ski, the more I'm thinking I may stick with my Karma's this year, buy a fatter ski (>100 under foot) and look at next years new entries to replace the old Karma's.  Something with a tighter turn radius than the Karma (20.2), more like the W84.  Like you, I really liked that ski last weekend. I still want to try a couple more mid-90 waisted ski's like the W94, Mojo 94 and the Prophet 90 to confirm all this, but maybe I'll play this demo game right up the waist size scale.

post #34 of 47

Sounds like a good plan - I'd go fat!  Enjoy your demo'ing (it's like being a kid in a candy shop for me) and keep us posted.

post #35 of 47

I'll throw a monkey wrench into this whole thing, so be aware that my opinion is probably of little value.

 

I'm 5'11", weigh about 165 lbs, and ski reasonably well. I'm older, so I don't ski particularly fast and I don't do big drops. I lived in Colorado for over 20 years; Winter Park was my home area, so I'm quite familiar with MJ. I now live in Nelson, British Columbia, where a different kind of mj hangs in the air sometimes, and the snow is usually denser and deeper.

 

I own a pair of 177cm Mantras and a pair of Others-That-Shall-Remain-Nameless, about the same length, but with a 78mm waist. The Others weigh a whole lot more than the Mantras.

 

First, I'll admit that most of the deep powder crowd around here prefers skis that are bigger than the Mantras. In fact, many of them use reverse sidecut, reverse camber waterskis of various brands, regardless of the actual snow conditions. So, my use of a "little" 96mm ski on deep days immediately marks me as very uncool and of deeply suspect family history.

 

Still, the Mantra provides plenty of float for me, and I find them nimble in the trees and around the rocks, with a huge sweet spot. They're easy. They handle the heavy snow here quite well, including the out-of-bounds sidecountry that's legal and so delicious in Canada.

 

Of course, my perspective is affected by the fact that I've been more than happy to ski 3 feet of BC powder on the Others (78mm waist, remember), so the Mantras seem like they're surfing.

 

On the Mantras, I can do what I want. I can lay them over on corduroy and they will carve a reasonably sized arc without chatter. In the trees or bumps, I can suck my feet up and pivot steer the skis easily, when necessary. They tolerate my sloppiness, which happens too often.

 

With all of that said, I probably wouldn't own the Mantras or any other "big" powder-oriented ski if I still skied mostly at MJ. The Mantras are not well suited to the narrow stance I adopt in the bumps, and I can easily ski Colorado's light powder on the Others. And the Others give me more face shots, since they run deeper.   Also, at a big ski area, the powder gets skied out in a hurry. Even the "secret" stashes.

 

So, there's the monkey wrench. Unless you're in BC or Utah, how often do you really get to use a pair of dedicated powder boards?

 

On the chatter issue: Chatter can certainly be aggravated by tune. I believe, however, that technique issues are often the root cause. Attempting to push on your stance ski, rather than simply balancing accurately is one thing that can easily lead to chatter on very firm surfaces. And just because one ski doesn't chatter and another does doesn't mean it's entirely the fault of the ski or the tune. Some skis will have more tendency to chatter on hard, scraped-off snow. When they do, though, you can often make it go away by adjusting balance, edging, etc.

 

Of course, all this is opinion, and Your Mileage May Vary.

 


 

My posts strongly suggest I have the intelligence of your average kitchen appliance and the personality of a cinder block.

 

 

 

 

post #36 of 47
Thread Starter 

JH,

 

What are your thoughts about turning radius as relates to the chatter issue? I see/understand your point about 'push' in my stance versus relaxing/balancing and letting the ski hold it's carve, and my (faulty?) logic is that I'm 'pushing' the ski into a tighter turning radius than it's designed for, resulting in teeth chattering hop/skip. Kind of an old and beat issue in this thread and besides tune, technique has been repeatedly highlighted as the issue, so maybe I ought to just get on with it and figure it out...

 

I recently took my Karma's to a local shop and had a 'performance tune' put on them, but haven't taken them out yet. When I do, I'll work on balancing through the turns and then tightening them up to see what happens. The Karma's (20.2 radius) will be what I ski when there isn't any new snow, when I want to spend some time in the bumps and/or when I know I'll be skiing with folks that are cruising the front side versus looking for trees or back-side adventure. This next set of ski's will be for when there is new snow and when I know there will be deep crud to wrestle off the groomed runs.

 

I liked the Mantra, and like you, I bet a 95 to 100 waisted ski is about all I think I'll need here in Colorado as an addition to my Karma's.  If I go to Utah, maybe I'll rent a fatter set of ski's "just cuz". So it's down to the Prophet 100, the Mantra, the Watea 101 or maybe the Head Mojo 94. I have read a ton about most of these, but only a little on the Prophet and I can't find a place that demos the Prophet.  Whatever I get, it will be fun trading back and forth between them and the Karma's to continue understanding/learning "the sweet science" (to rob a phrase) of skiing.

 

Oh, ya, Mary Jane is not my first area of choice... A-Basin, tho small, is more to my taste. Or Aspen Highlands.

post #37 of 47

This may sound crazy but oif you ski WP you should demo some K2 Extremes at the mtn adventure center...174...really fun ski that that performs much better than the Mantra off piste...now about $320 !!  My sense of the Mantra is that it is a OK fat front side ski...Kevin

post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallee View Post

 

JH,

 

What are your thoughts about turning radius as relates to the chatter issue? I see/understand your point about 'push' in my stance versus relaxing/balancing and letting the ski hold it's carve, and my (faulty?) logic is that I'm 'pushing' the ski into a tighter turning radius than it's designed for, resulting in teeth chattering hop/skip. Kind of an old and beat issue in this thread and besides tune, technique has been repeatedly highlighted as the issue, so maybe I ought to just get on with it and figure it out...

 

I recently took my Karma's to a local shop and had a 'performance tune' put on them, but haven't taken them out yet.


 

Hijack notice (but it is a response to the OP)

You can't "push" the ski into a tighter radius. You can tip it over more and balance accordingly. In fact, tipping just so far and then riding a fixed amount of tip is considered a "park and ride" and is considered less than ideal form in some circles. Theoretically, it's considered better if you continuously increase the tip (with a corresponding continuously decreasing turn radius) until you achieve a maximum, at which point you immediately and smoothly start decreasing the tip as you move toward the next transition.

 

In any case, more tip equals more bend and a smaller radius, assuming the ski does not slip. As you've noted, though, more tip may be more difficult to manage. A smaller radius carved turn implies greater forces and requires more accurate balancing skills. A ski with more sidecut will achieve a given pure carve radius with less tip, but the tight turn may generate larger forces (depending on how fast you're going, etc.) which you must manage.

 

Note that the arc carved by a tipped ski will have a smaller radius than the so-called "natural" turning radius of the ski. The arc is not achieved by pushing, however.

 

I can't comment too much on the "performance tune," since what constitutes a performance tune is a matter of opinion. What kind of performance? What kind of snow? What kind of skier?

 

A racer may want a 0.5 degree bottom bevel and a 2-3 degree side bevel for certain races in certain conditions, but many recreational skiers would find such a combination a little difficult to manage.

 

Some shops will grind the bottom flat (no bevel) and call it good. While this will certainly engage in a rather positive fashion on nice corduroy, and may not be at all noticeable in soft conditions, it can be a handful for some skiers on polished hardpack. On the other hand, maybe you'll like it.

 

 Hijack over - We now return you to your original programming.

 

Go play on your chosen tool/toy!

post #39 of 47
Thread Starter 

I'm putting a bow on this thread...

 

Decided to go with the Prophet 100 in a 179, sell my Karma's (anybody interested for $300 with Salomon 912 Ti bindings, 177?) and I'm looking for a deal on the Watea 84 - or I'm going to wait and see what comes out that is real similar that folks like. That gives me a pretty good 2 ski quiver.  If we ever again get a massive dump here in Colorad and I'm lucky enough to be able to enjoy it - or I go on vaca to Utah -- I'll demo some true fat powder skis.

 

The Prophets ski great. Tight or long turns, damp enough to not beat me up but still playful, easy in the trees and tons of top end -- they got better and better as I pushed them harder and harder.  All while being easy to ski 'slow and easy' on the front side with my son. So as he gets better and faster, I have the ski's to "grow" with him.

post #40 of 47

Way to go Wallee - I knew you'd go fatter (and do your part to stimulate the economy too)

 

I haven't heard anything about what Fischer's doing with the W84's for 2010 (or what'll be happening to other similar skis), so who knows  The W84's definitely are working for me as my hardpack or mixed condition ski so I think you made the right choice....

 

Enjoy!

post #41 of 47
Thanks for this lightweight-focused thread.  I'm 5'8" and 135-140#, an old geezer, have had little demoing opportunity since most available demo skis are too long (>= 170cm), and now see the risk of using heavier testers' results for my own decisions.  I almost chose Dynastar MRs for powder/crud use but, based on Wallee's and others' findings, will wait until I can demo more on my own. 

BTW, in CO I can appreciate the difficulty of finding one ski model suiting all conditions  -- at Loveland, for instance, both the north-facing powder E of Chair 1 and the south/east-facing crud by Chairs 4 and 9; and at WP, both Parsenn Bowl's powder/crud and Drunken Frenchman's deep icy bumps.

I'll have a Copper/WP combo pass for 2009-10.  Let me know if you want to meet on a weekday for some runs up there.
post #42 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallee View Post

I'm putting a bow on this thread...

 

Decided to go with the Prophet 100 in a 179, sell my Karma's (anybody interested for $300 with Salomon 912 Ti bindings, 177?) and I'm looking for a deal on the Watea 84 - or I'm going to wait and see what comes out that is real similar that folks like. That gives me a pretty good 2 ski quiver.  If we ever again get a massive dump here in Colorad and I'm lucky enough to be able to enjoy it - or I go on vaca to Utah -- I'll demo some true fat powder skis.

 

The Prophets ski great. Tight or long turns, damp enough to not beat me up but still playful, easy in the trees and tons of top end -- they got better and better as I pushed them harder and harder.  All while being easy to ski 'slow and easy' on the front side with my son. So as he gets better and faster, I have the ski's to "grow" with him.


Great choice...I love my P100's in the 179.  I'm about 145-150 lbs.
post #43 of 47
Thread Starter 

To DonDeane - I just went with the Colorado Pass (Vail, Breck, Keystone and A-basin), so unelsss I also buy some 4-passes to Copper, I won't be there much this year. Thanks for the invite though.

 

Back to the thread - I got a couple of days in on the Prophets, and enjoyed every minute on them. I also got a couple of days on the Watea 84's, and a few more on my old Salomon Xscream Series, and guess what? I decided that as good as the Watea's are in soft snow, they are equally as bad in hard, crusty snow. They transmit a real buzz through the ski's into my legs, and they chatter if pushed into a really tight turn.  At the same time, it was like rediscovering my Salomons - they skied great in the waning days of the season, especially good on hard snow.  So I'm selling the Wateas...

Season is about on us.  All the big ski sales are happening this weekend.  And the word is we are headed for a "real" winter with cold temps and lot's of snow, so I'm getting jazzed.

post #44 of 47
 Volkl Mantra is the best all-mountain ski I've tried... for the mixed conditions we get in europe its an absolute winner.  the only alternative is also from volkl - the goat.  Mantra works for me on pretty much everything - it's happiest doing fast GS style turns.. it was reviewed in one of the mags - they said something like - buy this ski if you like to also be the first to get to the bottom of a run.  thats about right.  10 weeks and i'm off to verbier.  not that I'm counting....
post #45 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by skunkfromverbier View Post

 Volkl Mantra is the best all-mountain ski I've tried... for the mixed conditions we get in europe its an absolute winner.  the only alternative is also from volkl - the goat.  Mantra works for me on pretty much everything - it's happiest doing fast GS style turns.. it was reviewed in one of the mags - they said something like - buy this ski if you like to also be the first to get to the bottom of a run.  thats about right.  10 weeks and i'm off to verbier.  not that I'm counting....
 

I've not skiied the mantra but apparently it suffers from tip dive in pow just like the mythic which is why I have discounted both as my all mountain choice for the alps.

Fat GS skis for the groomed and crud are fine but I'd like some more versatility from such as wide ski.
post #46 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by narc View Post






Fat GS skis for the groomed and crud are fine but I'd like some more versatility from such as wide ski.
 
Like what?  Any skis that satisfy that requirement?
post #47 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfp158 View Post



Like what?  Any skis that satisfy that requirement?
 

I'm still yet to demo/buy but a thread on this here http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/85983/euro-skis-for-dukes
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