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Jr. Race Tune

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the great thread "jr. Race Skies" By SKINUT.
Looking for advice to guide the shop that tunes our skies. This is our second year as members of team summit, CO. Made the jump up to better skies this year, Volkl SL 136cm. My Daughter is 9y/o, 85#, and competative.

Our skies are always hand tuned. The ussual request is for a 1deg bevel, but that is for my recreational skies. The plan is to have them tuned before every race weekend.What should I tell the tuner?

ei;
What bevel
How much detune
Texture
Wax
Anything else I'm missing

Thanks
post #2 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by tictoc View Post
Thanks for the great thread "jr. Race Skies" By SKINUT.
Looking for advice to guide the shop that tunes our skies. This is our second year as members of team summit, CO. Made the jump up to better skies this year, Volkl SL 136cm. My Daughter is 9y/o, 85#, and competative.

Our skies are always hand tuned. The ussual request is for a 1deg bevel, but that is for my recreational skies. The plan is to have them tuned before every race weekend.What should I tell the tuner?

ei;
What bevel
How much detune
Texture
Wax
Anything else I'm missing

Thanks
For a 9-yo, I don't think there is a need to go overboard with this tuning thing. A light tune whenever the edges get dull (definition of dull depends on location) or before a race is a good idea. Hot wax the base during tune and whenever the base get dry (say after 5 or 6 days).

For the first tune, have the tuner to set the edges to whatever the coaches recommend. Remind the tuner of these settings on repeated visits. He probably won't touch the base bevel once it's set and stone grinding is likely unnecessary for the life of the skis under your son's use. Keep the detuning minimal (if at all).

A good race development ski like your SL already come with good structure so there is no need to do anything special. A basic hydrocarbon wax will work fine. Put on a top coat of better inexpensive wax (say low fluoro) if you wish. Most shop don't offer anything but hydrocarbon so you may have to put on the top coat yourself.
post #3 of 16
Do not detune
post #4 of 16
First off, we tune our skis .... the skies will take care of themselves ...

I'll disagree on the level of tune however. You say your daughter is competetive and if that's the case .... you ... need to learn how to put on an edge before each race and do a waxing.

The coach or club may hold a clinic on this. Some don't and there is a lot of BS slung ..... "my kid never worrys about wax" ... or .... "we don't tune" .... and you see them sneaking out of the back door of the shop the night before the race and find out they are paying a tech some nice $$$$ to do those puppies. Don't believe a word you hear!
post #5 of 16

Coach...

Go with what the coach says. For that level, you are prob looking at 2 side and 1 bottom (for GS).
post #6 of 16

Old Hat Jr Race Chaser

I have 16, 11 and 8 year old girls. They are all in race programs. Have learned alot about ski gear since the oldest started.

Talk to her coach, but I would be surprised if the edges are anything more than 2 degrees. From my experience, they don't move to a 3 degree edge until age 13 or so.

post #7 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by chanwmr View Post
For a 9-yo, I don't think there is a need to go overboard with this tuning thing. A light tune whenever the edges get dull (definition of dull depends on location) or before a race is a good idea. Hot wax the base during tune and whenever the base get dry (say after 5 or 6 days).
My 8 year old tells me when the skis are dull. They don't feel dull by ski-shop standards, and still shave finger nails.

I sharpen them to Noram racer sharpness -- a Noram tech for CAST approved of my sharpening. I've been sharpening like that since the kids started skiing (before they were 3 y.o.).

A sharp ski is the best learning tool. You cannot learn to ski on dull skis, just like you cannot learn to skate on dull skates.

A diamond stone on the base and sides is done every tuneup. When there is damage, the file comes out. It's easier to keep them sharp if you never let them get dull. Once dull, you have far more work to do to get them sharp again.
post #8 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski-Dad View Post
From my experience, they don't move to a 3 degree edge until age 13 or so.
That depends the skier, not their age or even ability. I know FIS racers that still ski on a 2 degree side bevel.
post #9 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the input. Have to start somewhere, and this has helped me on my path tune tech knowledge.

What I gather so far is ( correct me if I'm wrong):
2deg side bevek
1 deg bottom bevel
No detune
leave the factory base texture alone ( for now, while it's in good shape)
A base layer of hydrocarbon wax
Top coat of flouro wax

Now, should I have her ski her inspection runs on her other pair of everyday skies. Then right before the first run put her on the newly tuned boards?
post #10 of 16
At some point be ready, if she is from performance .... or .... just a "feel good" thing ... to jump to a pair of race and a pair of training skis.

But not yet.

For now just mark one edge and have her use the "fresh edge" for the race. Let her run around the hill on the "R" edge and then switch to the "L" for the race.

But the main point is that dad is going to have to run a quick edge and wax on the night before a race.

When she hits the travel team (if she hasn't already), it will be a major pain-inna-adz to rely on any shop. It is impossible to have her on the hill to train/warm up on Friday or Saturday and then do a race ..... at least on one pair it is.

Get a basic bench, file guide, iron and ski vise set up ..... you don't have to go nuts.

Best of all, get a large quantity of patience. At this age you both will need lots of it.
post #11 of 16

What they said...

...and since you're from Summit County, where the snow, especially this year, is cold and dry, the wax you want is hydrocarbon, hydrocarbon, and more hydrocarbon. Most of the time, any fluoro is a waste or even detrimental. I'm off to Ski Cooper for a Masters DH on Thursday. Yesterday I did a snow temp at Eldora, which is probably a few degrees warmer than Cooper...-7 centigrade. On the stock Toko wax charts, that's right on the border between hydrocarbon red and blue. I'm going to start with Toko Moly Graphite Red with a thin layer of blue on Thursday and see how it runs. If the temp warrants it, maybe go to some Red LF with some Nano universal on top. That's for a speed event. For SL, edges are more important than wax...just don't blow the wax. Pretty much the same thing for GS...
post #12 of 16
From my experience with a J5 and a J6 here's my cheat sheet. Stone/sharpen and wax at a minimum of every weekend - it's easier to keep them sharp and waxed than to fix them. It will also make the training much more fun. Marking the skis right and left can minimize the number of times you're taking them in for repair :-). Base grind once a year unless damage requires more, 1deg/2d eg. No need for a fancy structure at that age. But... (personal bias here) when you do get a grind/shop tune go to somewhere like Precision rather than one of the big boxes. The difference is noticeable. I think Team Summit gets a discount at Precision as well and they usually turn tunes around overnight. The guys there can help with your tuning questions and tuning equipment. Good luck Saturday!
post #13 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski-Dad View Post
I have 16, 11 and 8 year old girls. They are all in race programs. Have learned alot about ski gear since the oldest started.

Talk to her coach, but I would be surprised if the edges are anything more than 2 degrees. From my experience, they don't move to a 3 degree edge until age 13 or so.

It depends on the club. Ours is all 1/3 for all younger racers up to J3 I think (to keep things simple I suppose). But, I agree that the coaches should be the ones making that call.

BTW, some race skis even at shorter length comes in .5 or 1/3 (like the Atomic Race 10). So in these cases, to achieve a 2deg side, they have to reset the side bevel.
post #14 of 16
1/3 for young racers??? Wow -- that's not what we do up here.

With a 3 degree side, once engaged, the edge can be very difficult to release. Add the back seated stance of the young racer and you have a recipe for disaster...
post #15 of 16

J3 = K2 (13/14)

I had all of my 12-year old K1 racers last season at 1/3, and it worked pretty well. I worked with them as first year K1 racers as well, so I knew them well enough to know that they were ready for the higher performance tune. This configuration seemed to be a pretty common setup based on comments from other K1 coaches.

One of our local shops uses 1/3 as their standard machine tune, and gives a discount if you pick that one. (Other options available of course, sometimes some hand dressing is required.)

This year for K2 some of the more skilled racers in my former group are working with 0.5/3 on their SL skis.
post #16 of 16
My J5 is either a .5/3 or a 1/3 (I've had this discussion before...and I don't care what the base got set at by his coach ...he's skiing fine either way). I do know that the side is 3 for sure since I tune the side edge regularly. He's had a 3 side edge as a 8 year old last year as well. I've never seen a problem with it, though I'm sure there would be no problem with it at 2 either.

A young J6 racer (she's 8) from another team is skiing on his old skis this year, and she did very well this past race weekend -- mostly because she is on a 130 length -- too short a ski last season. Again, a 1/3.
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