New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Crossing Tips

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
I'm an advanced beginner and I'm trying to work on keeping my skis parallel, especially in the bumps (my current arch-nemesis). Any words of wisdom for the "feel" I should be trying to achieve to get past the urge to do a partial snowplow (a technique I wish I had NEVER been taught). I've just got kind of a weird thing going on. Bringing my heels together makes me want to get back on the skis. If I can get past this stage I think I can get my skiing up a level and keep up with my friends for a change.

BTW, I'm skiing on old, Rossi 4SV's.

Thanks in advance.

[ December 07, 2003, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: EricW ]
post #2 of 21
Thinking about your heels when trying to "get parallel" is probably helping to draw you into the backseat, and that can lead to crossed tips. rather than being obsessed with snowplough vs parallel, try to ski positively, driving into each turn, driving the skis with your feet and knees into each turn and controlling where each turn goes.
This means turning BOTH skis, not just one ski. When you start turning actively with the inside (lightweighted) ski, you find the dreaded crossing of the tips recedes and becomes a fading memory.
post #3 of 21
Welcome to EpicSki EricW!

There are MANY pro's that frequent Epic that can help you with your question ..... but, I'm not one of them! Nonetheless, I'll take a stab.

I'm not familiar with the 4SV, do they have any side cut or are they more or less the old style 'straight' ski? How long? A modern ski in the right length could make it easier and lower your learning curve!

Are you able to link short radius turns on groomed runs? Consensus seems to be that this is a must have skill to take into the bumps.

Maybe this thread will help you understand the feel you're looking for: Avalement (Absorption) Animated!

Here's a recent thread (with links to several others) that might be of interest: The Essence of the Expert--Psy's question
post #4 of 21
Thread Starter 
I can generally bomb down moderate, well-groomed runs and give the appearance of almost knowing what I'm doing. The 4SV's are are a very straight ski. That said. I'm 98% positive I have a technique problem and not a gear problem. Shaped skis are cool I'm sure, but I honestly *like* the old school skis.

Turning with both skis sounds like the ticket. That would clearly explain what's going on. I'll give 'er a whirl.

Thanks for the warm welcome, btw.
post #5 of 21
Welcome to EpicSki.
Please take a lesson from a professional instructor. Self diagnosis based on internet tips is difficult, and our view of our abilities is often extremely distorted. Videotape usually dispels those notions, but acknowledgement is only the first step. A trained professional will know where to go from there. Ask for an intermediate-level lesson and go with an open mind and a willingness to learn. They may not tell you what you want to hear, but they'll probably give you what you need to progress.

Don't take this the wrong way, but straight-lining a hill is not skiing- it's standing on two sticks. Until you learn to turn efficiently and use line to control speed, you really aren't skiing. I say this as someone who spent a lot of years oblivious and standing on two sticks.

If you like straight skis and want to stay with them, that's just fine. There are thousands of them out there for pennies on the dollar. There are no major manufacturers making them anymore. There are good reasons for this. However, if you're having fun with what you have you might as well go with it. I wouldn't dismiss shaped skis out of hand. Someday you may find a use for them.

Have fun and keep learning.
post #6 of 21
EricW:

Your "problem" is one I've seen and experienced consistently during my years of teaching. I've found several solutions, but it's hard to choose one specifically for you without skiing with you. At this point, the best advice I can offer you is to start with sideslips, sideslips, sideslips, and then, sideslips. Do it with lots of variations, but keep one thing consistent: corresponding edge engagement/parallel skis. Variations: downhill foot dominant, uphill foot dominant, falling leafs, backwards, forward, lateral, in the bumps, in the crud, on the steeps, on the flats, thru some gates, garlands, lateral hops landing in a sideslip, add direction change... The options and possibilities are endless.
Like others have said: Take a lesson from a good instructor.
Hope this gives you a start point.
The good news is: You're at one of the most exciting phases of learning, in my opinion. The breakthrough to consistent parallel turning was just about the greatest feeling I've ever had.
The bad news is: You're at one of the most challenging phases of learning, in my opinion. The breakthrough to consistent parallel turning requires a change of HABITUAL movement patterns. You're gonna have to actually WORK at it.
The best news is: You MUST go skiing to make it happen.

With lots of empathy,
Carolyn
post #7 of 21
If you're seeing crossed tips or a wedged position of your skis at turn entries, it's because you're beginning the turn with the new outside foot (left foot in right turn) without involving the new inside foot. If it's happening only when you find the slope circumstance somewhat intimidating, it means you're hurrying the turn entry by starting with the outside ski. Spend some time thinking about turning the tip of the right ski to the right to turn that direction and letting the rest just happen. Do this where you can be comfortable and relaxed.
post #8 of 21
I am very familiar with the Ross.4 series.Hey..I'm not really knocking them..well.. I had several pairs.LOTS of fun!They were a good ski in their day.When Tomba popularized them.They are simply put..not even good straight ski technology today.Even straight ski technolgy went light years ahead AFTER these.Some of the straight skis produced in the mid 90's..and some of the transition models to "shaped" skis.I doubt you'ld ski your skis again after a very short part of a run on even newer straight skis.You may keep them for the memories..cool.Let alone "shaped".Get yourself a dirt cheap pair of newer skis.I am talking $5,10 $20..any junk store,charity,Ebay.With all due respect..even learning things on those things.You may even pick up bad habits.Hey..I have some old straight skis myself in my collection.Even some old ones and their newer (still straight) counterparts.
The 4's are not the easiest things to ski..or learn anything on.They were of the genre..feet glued together..up/unweight,turn the skis,weight the skis.Not only that we were just getting out of the Killy..lean back phase..and these 4's came along with strong tails..so needless to say..good skiers of the day flocked to them..and drove them from the back seat.You could get away with that..the tails were strong enough..and if you were a good enough skier..and weighted and dug them in fairly equally the tips didn't cross.
I guess for you as far as learning on these.Learning..you're gonna hafta get forward on them.Over them.Centre your weight over them from front to back..get used to this.Try it a bit forward..a bit backward..get a feel for this as you ski.Leaning back on these is not for learning.These gotta be handled with some aggression.Feel your shins pressing into the boot tongue.Learn to apply more..pressure them.You can get a feel for some edging/control..rolling your ankles(modern technique)..just a feel..cause these babies ain't gonna wanna carve..they will want to skid.Another drawback is that these things are strong..so that the temptation..and saviour will be to excessively weight the downhill ski..especially when you get into trouble..and ski them independantly.Leaves your other leg flailing.
If you are close I'ld let you try another pair of skis..free..maybe/probablly give you a pair.

Lottsa info! on this site!..Dig in..HAVE FUN!
post #9 of 21
welcome...

shaped skis make EVERYTHING so much easier! rent a pair sometime and just see what feels different.

kiersten
post #10 of 21
Arnold, I don't remember my 4sk's being that much of a handfull.
And of course they could carve. Just not the whole ski at once.
post #11 of 21
Thread Starter 
OK OK OK....you guys were right and I was wrong wrong wrong. It was the skis. I tried my friend's newer K2 shaped boards and was immediately able to get onto the front of the ski and suddenly had a miraculous level of control. I messed with moving my bindings forward on the 4SV's which dramatically improved their controllability (I'm pretty sure the bindings were erroneously set too far to the rear), but they are still very wanting in stability, especially in the crud. I just can't get forward on the 4SV's on steep slopes, where I have no problems with my friends K2s. He skiied my 4SV's for one run and had the same problems I do.

So, I just foolishly plunked down $325 for a set of Atomic C9 Betas with the 412 bindings. Before I go shred my bases on the rocks the lift operators are too lazy to cover, does anyone have any vibes on how those may work?

Now, would someone please pass the crow...?

[ December 27, 2003, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: EricW ]
post #12 of 21
The C9's are a great ski.

What length did you get?
post #13 of 21
Thread Starter 
I bought 190's.
post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally posted by EricW:
I bought 190's.
The C9's are fairly demanding (for a beginner or intermediate). In the 190cm length they will be too much ski for most people. Is there any chance for you to get a shorter length?

For your level of skiing 160cm would be much better.
post #15 of 21
With this low of a post count, and this degree of silliness, I'm suspecting a bored pouter. But on the odd chance I'm incorrect, I'll offer my .02;

Dude, you need some help. And you're not gonna get it in a discussion forum.

Stop chasin yer buds around the hill, and take an all day group clinic or 2, and really learn how to turn those new planks of yours.

BTW, unless you're 6'2" or taller, and 220 lbs.+, you bought too much ski.
post #16 of 21
Thread Starter 
Fear not. I'm a very stocky guy (I spent too much time in the weight room in high school). I weigh 245 and *need* the 190's.

Xdog,

Allow me to apologize for my low post count and silliness. I forgot that skiing was some super-serious sh*t. I wither under the glare of your greatness.

[ December 28, 2003, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: EricW ]
post #17 of 21
EricW,
I am neither a great nor superior skier. I am not going to give advice on how to ski, I can't, I've never seen you ski. I do think however, (and I am guilty of being resistant to the idea of lessons, so hear me out), that a few good lessons will set you straight and help you to improve your form so you get more enjoyment out of it.

As for the length of the skis, I am a 5'9" heavy set female, I'm not going to lie to you. I would venture to say that I am heavier than most of the men on this site, including you.(got to be honest) I do have muscle tone though and I am basically physically fit. I got new Volkl 6* skis this year in a 161cm. I looked at the skis you got and it was recommended that I go no longer than a 170cm. I have been skiing for more than 30 years. I have been a member of the National Ski Patrol and a Ski Instructor. My last skis were 177cm. Before that I was on 195+ skis.

Let me tell you, it is much more FUN on the shorter skis and they are so much easier to control. You should try some shorter skis and you will see what I mean. I was totally resistant to going to a "shaped" ski and then to a shorter length too. It took some convincing and demoing to finally get me to. I am soooooooooooo glad that I did! Take the recommendations to demo some shorter skis seriously. You WILL see a big difference.

[ December 28, 2003, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: skierteach ]
post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally posted by ant:
Thinking about your heels when trying to "get parallel" is probably helping to draw you into the backseat, and that can lead to crossed tips. rather than being obsessed with snowplough vs parallel, try to ski positively, driving into each turn, driving the skis with your feet and knees into each turn and controlling where each turn goes.
This means turning BOTH skis, not just one ski. When you start turning actively with the inside (lightweighted) ski, you find the dreaded crossing of the tips recedes and becomes a fading memory.
Very useful advice, ant..
post #19 of 21
My feeling is the skis are a bit long, but you should be able to manage if you don't feel like returning them. The C9.18 is a great carving ski, and if you spend the time to learn to use them properly, you will have an absolute blast.

As has been mentioned- take a lesson from a good instructor instead of chasing your friends all over the hill. They may not be as good as you think they are. My own perception of what is good skiing and what isn't changed drastically after a few lessons. You probably know how you learn best (drills or more free-flowing methods), so seek out a Level II or Level III instructor that meets those characteristics. Tell them what you want and try to come away with stuff to practice afterwards. Having an instructor there to demonstrate and correct problems makes the learning curve that much shorter. You don't have to go crazy with lesson-taking, but even one good lesson can mean a lifetime of better skiing. Go with an open mind and a desire to improve.
post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally posted by EricW:
I can generally bomb down moderate, well-groomed runs and give the appearance of almost knowing what I'm doing.
welcome!

Are you self-taught, Eric?

remember, how you look to others is not the critical feature in good skiing. what matters is how your skis FEEL when you give them certain inputs.

if you focus on how you look, I guarantee that you are creating bad-habit roadblocks NOW that will haunt you for your skiing future! I am living proof of this. I was a self-taught skier who emulated "better skiers" by focusing on body position without looking into the critical element of:

when I give the ski certain input, what does it do, and what (if anything) is it telling me to do differently?

over the past 3 seasons, I've had excellent assistance from a very good instructor and race coach... what he's taught me most is that form follows function, and not vice-versa.

your skis are your best instructor, but to get to the point of learning from your skis, you need some good focus from a talented coach or instructor.

hope that helped.

[img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]
post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally posted by EricW:
I'm an advanced beginner and I'm trying to work on keeping my skis parallel, especially in the bumps (my current arch-nemesis). Any words of wisdom for the "feel" I should be trying to achieve to get past the urge to do a partial snowplow (a technique I wish I had NEVER been taught). I've just got kind of a weird thing going on. Bringing my heels together makes me want to get back on the skis. If I can get past this stage I think I can get my skiing up a level and keep up with my friends for a change.
I am by no means an expert on how to transition to parallel turns from wedge, especially in a difficult terrain: I learned wedge when I was a developed intermediate skier. What worked for some 15+ other people I brought from greens to black diamonds, is to bring the RR turns to perfection on groomed, then go to easy SOFT moguls - soft enough for you to be able to cut through them, then to hard frequent (one-half to one ski length apart in traverse) moguls and just try to compensate for them by using your knees like shock absorbers while traversing across the mogul field. Once you are not digging your tips into the bumps and not falling on your behind when the skis are going down the bump, try making turns by pivoting both skis on top of the bump and sliding down the downhill side of the bump - all the while doing the same compensatory fore-aft movements. Once you've got that down, try to follow the sides of the moguls (uphill side->side->downhill side) while planting the pole into the top of the mogul and still compensating for the terrain by using the legs as shock absorbers and sideslipping down the bump.

IMHO, your equipment shouldn't matter. What matters is how you use it. In this case, how well you feel the difference between the edges being dug into the snow vs. sideslipping on parallel skis.

Anyway, my 0.02 [img]smile.gif[/img]

A private lesson would help big time.

[ December 29, 2003, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: AlexG ]
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching