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Bumps poleplant

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
Hey guys, wondering where YOU think the pole plant should be in bumps. Conventional wisdom often says that you plant right on top of the bump and "turn around the pole". IMHO edge change and flexion should be happening on top of the bump. Since I also think that the pole should be touching down just after the edge change, I think the pole plant should be happening on the backside of the bump.

[Mike Meyers]Towk amongst yourselves.[/Mike Meyers]
post #2 of 16
The pole touch location strongly depends on the line you have selected and the intensity you are skiing with. Z pole plant cannot be counted on to hold on the backsides of the bumps. For the mogul tactics that eventually fall out in the end, the pole touch/plant should be just before the crest of z bump.
post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
The pole touch location strongly depends on the line you have selected and the intensity you are skiing with. Z pole plant cannot be counted on to hold on the backsides of the bumps. For the mogul tactics that eventually fall out in the end, the pole touch/plant should be just before the crest of z bump.
True that of course tactics depend (and actually, I was thinking you might have a different answer than me). Here's a question for you then; does the pole plant need to "hold"?
post #4 of 16
I was watching some of my own bump skiing to see where I plant the pole and it is just as I suspected at the end of previous turn before the retraction of the legs and edge change. Because turns in bumps are linked and often can be very short there is not much time to pull the pole out of the snow so there is a tendency to turn arround the pole. My pole plants are blocking and atisipated so I reach fearly far out to the side down in the fall line. Because the pole plant is blocked it adds to the turning arround the pole vibe. Epic, Im with you though, the pole plant takes place on the back side of the bump.
post #5 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post
True that of course tactics depend (and actually, I was thinking you might have a different answer than me). Here's a question for you then; does the pole plant need to "hold"?
For most skiers, yes the pole needs to hold. to prevent skiing around the pole you use the pole like a lever and push it forward as you ski past. If you can ski moguls without poles then a touch is just fine.
post #6 of 16
I don't need no schtinking pole plants (had to say it), but then again I suck at bumps.
post #7 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost
I don't need no schtinking pole plants...
Neither do I ... I need Good pole plants!

... and I find there's no 'right' pole plant in my skiing as it pretty much depends on what I'm doing and how I'm doing it. Mulling over my bump skiing I can think of several specific pole-plant patterns that show up.

1) For Short Swing or Braking turns (with a sharp, decelerating edge-set) I poke the pole in where it will assist my upper-body balance, regardless where the bump is.

2) For sharp turns with a late hard edge (Tip-Carve or an attempt to slice a purchase in ice) I plant the pole tip just ahead and to the side of me just after the edge bites. I basically 'fall' into a relieving pole plant which is more a 'retraction plant' than a 'blocking' plant.

3) For regular well-rounded (skidded) bump turns I tend to poke the pole tip in just as I do for open-slope skiing - based on edge-change.

4) When doing Slip & Slam bump skiing (still fun!) I find the tip goes in just about when the 'slam' moment occurs, putting it on the top (small bumps) or uphill face (big bumps) due to my range of reach.

5) When short-carving (skarving) bumps I plant just like when open-slope skiing (see above)


For the most part (in all cases above) exactly where my pole tip hits depends on where I am and not where the bump is. If there's an obstacle, hole, sharp wall or other funky terrain feature that might trap the pole-tip or cause it to glance off (like ice) I tend to avoid letting it land quite there.

In each case the pole plant is used to stabilize my upper body and to 'let me gently by' rather than any sort of 'blocking' or 'stopping' pole plant. (I'm starting to call this a Relieving Pole Plant to distinguish it from a blocking plant or just a pole 'touch'.)

.ma
post #8 of 16
Depends what I want to do. If I want to slow down, I plant on the face, if I want to accelerate, I will plant on the top.
post #9 of 16
Pole planting in the moguls is all about timing and a light touch. The pole should never be used as a weight support during a turn. In fact, if you are poling properly, it is simply a matter of a flick of the wrist. All the while, your arms/shoulders should remain quiet with the rest of your upper body.

As you ski the moguls, your pole plants should be on the backside (downhill side) of each mogul. Patience truly is a virtue when discussing mogul poling. You don't want to plant on the face (front) of the mogul. This will get you off balance, pull your arms behind you as you absorb and advance toward the next bump, and thus will create problems with your turn timing. You don't want to plant on top of the mogul, because this will force you to reach up and will also pull your arm back behind you. You want to aim for a spot around the center of the downhill side of the bump. Many bump skiers (even good ones) have trouble waiting for the right moment to pole plant. It is very important that you be ever patient and wait for the moment when you can effortlessly plant on that downhill side. This will act, then, as your pivot point for the next turn and allow you to plant with a very light touch and a simple wrist movement. Again... do not lean your weight into your pole plant. It is not a speed controller.



Read more + demonstrative pictures: http://www.mogulskiing.net/technique_guide_10.html
post #10 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushMogulMaster View Post

As you ski the moguls, your pole plants should be on the backside (downhill side) of each mogul.


Read more + demonstrative pictures: http://www.mogulskiing.net/technique_guide_10.html
+1
post #11 of 16
BMM, typed a posting that got lost.... Anyway, thanks for the link and the explanations. However, to me it remains a bit unclear of what is frontside and backside of a bump. A bump has two downhills and two uphills. Both towards the uphill and downhill of the slope. Actually a bump has four up- and downhills because you also do approach the bump sideways. Then you have the gross uphill and downhill of the slope. Before we used to talk about uphill and dowhill skis. Now that has been changed to inside and outside skis. Is there a modern or classic solution for mogul skiing as well? If there is, how do I remember it? Im sure Ive heared it many times but forgot.

BTW, skiing moguls or skiing "mogul style" is not the same thing. Like the link suggests mogul skiers keep their arms streched forward all the time and plant with a flick of the vrist. They also use shorter poles. I ski moguls with regular skis, whatever I happen to be on and same applies to ski poles. This should not be misstaken for proper mogul skiing, merely a way to ski moguls with regular gear and technique.
post #12 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelA View Post
1) For Short Swing or Braking turns (with a sharp, decelerating edge-set) I poke the pole in where it will assist my upper-body balance, regardless where the bump is.
I never turn in a mogul field "regardless of where the bump is". This is my main strategy and I would not easily advice othervise.
post #13 of 16
I'm with BMM. I don't think anyone should rely on the pole plant, reguardless whether it's on top or on the backside of the mogul. When you use blocking pole plants or use the pole plant to turn around you are relying on that for turn iniation and rythym. If by chance you miss a pole plant or the moguls are icy and the pole tip fails, you end up bailing out. Another problem wiith using this kind of pole plant is you're more apt to end up with your hands beside or behind you putting you in the backseat.

Touich the pole whereever it comes in the rythym of your skiing. If you're flying, it will most likely be somewhere near the top or just below the crest of the bump.

I had a friend who was a decent bump skier with his technique, but used his poles as a turn plant, blocking plant all the time. In a nice section of Spring bumps, he jammed his pole in so hard and deep it actually tore his bicep muscle right off his bone as he skied by it.
post #14 of 16
As you can tell there are a lot of different opinions about pole usage. I would like to point out that just like every other maneuver and movement there is an appropriate time and place to use them.

Do we only use a pole touch? Hmm, that idea assumes we never need to use the pole plant as a balancing aid/corrective maneuver. In such variable terrain we just might need to use the pole for more than a trigger for the new turn.
Do we only use a blocking pole plant? Probably not since it certainly can result in the pole being the pivot point of the new turn. Especially if we don't snap the wrist and drive the hand forward after the pole contacts the snow.
Which lead me to the conclusion that in variable terrain we need to employ a variety of pole plants/touches. The important thing about them is that they should contribute a positive effect to the turn we are trying to do. If they are interfering with that outcome, it's time to re-think what type of pole plant/touch we are using. Which to some may sound like a non-answer but in reality the more versatile we are in our thinking the more versatile our skiing becomes. Play with all of the movements suggested so far but avoid thinking in an all or nothing way. Keep your options open and you'll be more successful in more situations.
post #15 of 16
Thread Starter 
It looks like John Clendenin would disagree with me - "The touch always precedes the turn." http://www.skidoctors.com/CSMPreview_Oct08.pdf Now of course he references Bode Miller next. Does anybody think that Bode's "touch" always precedes his turn?
post #16 of 16
while it is true that your pole plant should technically be on the front side of the bump , that takes alot of skill , and nerve. i allways end up planting just before or at the very top of the crest , and thats when i feel my hand pull back . form gets shot to shit and thats when the next bump doesnt line up correctly and things start to speed up in your brain because im doing it wrong.

its easy to say do one thing, harder to do. at least i realize what im doing, and how to correct it . i guess thats half the battle.
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