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PSIA/CSIA

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Was just reading another thread and it occured to me they might be a larger difference then I thought between PSIA and CSIA.
This is for no other reason but me own personal curiosity. It seems you acctually join the PSIA then learn how to teach and achive lvl1 status?In the time befor your first LVL of certification in PSIA you can teach lessons?Then you can test and actualy get a LVL1 cert,but you acctually teach befor this?
CSIA has 4 levels and you must pass lvl 1 before you can teach or be a member.Examiners are typically LVL4 with some strong LVL3 .Befor moving ahead to LVL 3 you must obtain a LVL 1 coach. (are 4 LVLs of coach also)
Are there any dual Certified folks here and is so can you outline the general differences?
post #2 of 17
Small correction: to get CSIA Level 3 certification it is not necessary to have CSCF 1 (coach).All you need is CSIA Level 2.
post #3 of 17
Instructors work for ski schools. Most, but not all, ski schools are affiliated with PSIA. You don't need to be certified in anything to teach ski lessons if the ski school lets you. PSIA sets the standards for the certification levels, but doesn't have any say about who works and who doesn't at a given ski school. The idea with the certification is that a student can expect a certain level of experience and professionalism from a PSIA instructor at any school.
post #4 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortrads View Post
Small correction: to get CSIA Level 3 certification it is not necessary to have CSCF 1 (coach).All you need is CSIA Level 2.
It's not necessary, but strongly suggested .
post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 
Thats great shortrads, they must have got so much resistance to it when introduced they dropped it. (was implimented in 97 ) We where all so upset at the time ,saw it as an extra cash grab to get 2 sets of dues (we taught for Doug Leaming at the time at Glen Eden ) I am glad to hear it. Lady Salina and I have not taught in hmmmmm 5 or 6 years now.
Thanks for the update and the correction, maybe I will move back to Canada and teach skiing again!!!
post #6 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Boot View Post
Thanks for the update and the correction, maybe I will move back to Canada and teach skiing again!!!
NOT! When did you win the lottery and neglect to mention it to me?
post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 
Come on Salina
we can live with your folks, get them to drive us to the hill every day and have your dad cook for us. We can spend all the cash we make on equipment and skiing. Sounds great to me
post #8 of 17
It was introduced because a lot of people were coming to the level 3 CSIA with no concept of how to move inside the arc or run the ski cleanly from the fall line down.

Some instructors saw the prerequisite as something else (as you described) which is unfortunate. It was really about trying to raise the bar re. skill development and increase the success rate for the level 3 course.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Boot View Post
Thats great shortrads, they must have got so much resistance to it when introduced they dropped it. (was implimented in 97 ) We where all so upset at the time ,saw it as an extra cash grab to get 2 sets of dues (we taught for Doug Leaming at the time at Glen Eden ) I am glad to hear it. Lady Salina and I have not taught in hmmmmm 5 or 6 years now.
Thanks for the update and the correction, maybe I will move back to Canada and teach skiing again!!!
post #9 of 17
jdistefa, I really didn't see it as a cash grab, but I did see having to pay two sets of dues every year from then, on top of my costs already as bit expensive. Basically, I felt, and your statement probably confirms it, that one who would be ready to pass their Lvl 3's, would pass a level 1 coach with ease. Better to make sure the level 2's get the correct training to get their level 3 and know how to ski dynamically and have some time in the gates. If one is not ready for the 3 then they are not ready. I seriously doubt the majority of new level 1 coaches, will be up to passing a level 3 CSIA. But this is really not the point of the post. Just curious on the differences or likeness of the PSIA to the CSIA certification process.
post #10 of 17
I think it's unfortunate that the CSCF 1 was dropped as a CSIA 3 prerequisite. The old progression of CSIA 2 --> CSCF 1 --> CSIA 3 added an important measure of depth, breadth and performance to CSIA 3 certification. I'm not so sure that the current CSIA 3 standard would guarantee passing the CSCF 1 (EL) course with ease.

Of course the other side of this is that CSCF 2 (DL) is still a prerequisite for CSIA 4, so the top CSIA 3 candidates who are moving on to CSIA 4 will still follow the traditional cross-training path.
post #11 of 17
hmm, interesting Mogulmuncher. Do you feel it would be better for personal ski and skills advancement to go CSCF 1 and 2, if you were only doing one, then to go the CSIA route? Not just for personal but someone that wanted to teach, and develop their skills further.
post #12 of 17
CSIA & CSCF complement each other quite well in many ways: you can be a better instructor with some coaching background, and a better coach with some instructing background.

If your goal is high performance, the CSCF approach might be the best option. However, recognizing that this is performance in a racing environment, CSIA provides additional breadth. A good example: skiing bumps is a good demonstration of all-round proficiency, and working towards CSIA 3 is where you'll develop those skills. Broader instructional pedagogy is addressed more fully on the CSIA side (although this is somewhat dependent on who you are training with).

I've noticed that people who focus on one stream (either CSIA or CSCF) for quite a while require a bit more work when they go to the "other side" for cross-training. Co-development seems to work best for long-term development of skiing and teaching/coaching skills.
post #13 of 17
Well thinking of my youngest son, who is now 23 and is thinking of starting something part time, or possibly full time, and is still in Canada, he might be wise to go the coaching route for personal development, as he's had instruction from instructors all his life. If he can only commit part time, the expense of two sets of dues is just one more recurring cost, on top of the equipment, daily gas to hill, and on going courses. I always felt the expense was worth it, as I loved to teach and the opportunity to get properly critiqued (brutally) during sessions, but he has a young family and is still in university. He'd love to teach, and coaching might offer a nice avenue for him to do it, while upgrading his skills further. Although, it would likely be much easier for him to get his CSIA level 1 then coach, as that's his current style.
post #14 of 17

I went for my CSIA 3 and passed the skiing with flying colors without my CSCF 1. Sure I trained a lot :)

post #15 of 17

OB, you talked about the PSIA / CSIA differences at the lowest level.  How are they different, if at all, at the higher levels?

 

Does PSIA L3 = CSIA L3 or L4?

 

Where does PSIA L2 fit into CSIA?

post #16 of 17

Having taught in Canada and in the US, I think it's fair to say that PSIA 3 is harder than CSIA 3. However, CSIA 4 is above PSIA examiner, in my opinion.

post #17 of 17

Funny timing. This thread here answers the question. http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/103677/top-certs

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