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GS sidecut

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
I am a Masters racer skiing on some older GS skis that are 186 cm with a 24m radius. I am fairly heavy and tall (6'2" and 210lbs) and I like the length, even for turnier courses.

I am looking for new skis, and worried about going to a 27m radius. Most companies now offer a 181cm ski with a 24m radius and longer skis with a 27m radius.

So, do I stick with the 186cm length and learn to bend a straighter ski, or go down to a 181 to keep the radius I like? If I were still out west, I would probably go longer since the courses are pretty open, but I am in the east now.

Thanks for you thoughts.

Richr
post #2 of 13
Aren't there 186's that aren't FIS allowed with a 24m (or less) radius?
post #3 of 13
Sure, you can buy 'cheater' GS skis in a 186 with a radius of 19.5m, but these will feel like they're overturning compared to a 24m ski.

FWIW for the OP, you should do fine going from a 24 to 27m ski.
post #4 of 13
I just made the switch from 24ish (07 Racetiger 185) to 27 (09 Racetiger 185). They feel very similar.
post #5 of 13

It probably depends on the manufacturer...

...but lemme just relate an experience I recently had. Last winter, I was skiing on a 183 cm. Head IGS/RD from the year before, which had a 25 meter sidecut. Good ski, I liked it a lot. I was using Atomic for everything else, and I decided to go back to Atomic this year. So I got two pairs of 186 cm. race stock, 27 meter sidecut GS12s. Basically what some of the smaller guys are using for WC GS. They did not work at all for me, and I went back to a 183 cm 24 meter GS12, which is basically the GS ski for women on the WC...which works great for me. I trained some high speed, full length GS on Friday, and the 183s were quiet and held just fine, but were a lot easier to get into the turn, and I could vary the radius, which I could not do at all on the 186s. It's not just sidecut, look at the other factors. The 186s have a much beefier construction, and have the heavy DH/GS plate as opposed to the thinner, softer plate on the 183s. Just another data point...
post #6 of 13
SkiRacer55,

Good points. The OP is >210 lbs which may help re. men's FIS skis.

Also, the WC GS/speed plate from Atomic is not really heavy/beefy, rather it provides better dampening (and flexing) than the older plates that came on some of the 181/183cm skis.
post #7 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdistefa View Post
SkiRacer55,

Good points. The OP is >210 lbs which may help re. men's FIS skis.

Also, the WC GS/speed plate from Atomic is not really heavy/beefy, rather it provides better dampening (and flexing) than the older plates that came on some of the 181/183cm skis.
My point was that a new >27 men's ski will not be much different than a >21 older men's ski, in terms of difficulty to ski. Both are designed for the same athlete.
post #8 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richr View Post
I am a Masters racer skiing on some older GS skis that are 186 cm with a 24m radius. I am fairly heavy and tall (6'2" and 210lbs) and I like the length, even for turnier courses.

I am looking for new skis, and worried about going to a 27m radius. Most companies now offer a 181cm ski with a 24m radius and longer skis with a 27m radius.

So, do I stick with the 186cm length and learn to bend a straighter ski, or go down to a 181 to keep the radius I like? If I were still out west, I would probably go longer since the courses are pretty open, but I am in the east now.

Thanks for you thoughts.

Richr
r24m is FIS approved for women. I use a pair of 187cm 24r FIS GS skis for masters racing and they are quite turny. On a racing camp this fall one young but big FIS skier was skiing with 190+ r>27m WC skis and he could not bend the skis onto our masters course. On WC level they have been using much straighter skis than r27m before the rule change. Depending on the course offcourse.
post #9 of 13

Just an additional note...

...the FIS has the manufacturers running in circles with the rule changes. I have, as I said, a pair of 183 cm. Atomic GS 12s, this years, with I think dimensions of 101-67.5-88 (although they are marked 104.5 at the tip, which they are not...I measure them) for a sidecut of 24...and they work just great for Masters, as TDK6 says, a 27 meter sidecut ski is tough to stuff into a Masters course. I wanted another pair of these, but they just went from "a few pairs in North America" to "sold out." So I found a pair of last year's which are...get this...101-65.5-87, for a sidecut of 22.7. I'm sure they'll be just peachy, but if you look at any of the Atomic brochures, they list sometimes 3 or even 4 models at the same length with different sidecuts. So one more data point that says a 183 is not necessarily a 183...
post #10 of 13

Hi - Newbie interested in Master's GS, lighter (160 lbs) middle aged guy, with a probably stupid question: Did some searches here - including this thread - that seem to indicate anything goes for equipment. Then studied the 08-09 FIS/USSA equipment statement. Which makes no sense. It states in one line of fine print under the table that Masters length is "recommended," rather than required, but in another line appears to require radius and width for everyone. And then says that this is all still being debated. So if I choose to use an older women's radius/length ( r24/181 cm) WC GS to get started on, and don't race at FIS events, am I in violation of something? 

post #11 of 13


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

 

Hi - Newbie interested in Master's GS, lighter (160 lbs) middle aged guy, with a probably stupid question: Did some searches here - including this thread - that seem to indicate anything goes for equipment. Then studied the 08-09 FIS/USSA equipment statement. Which makes no sense. It states in one line of fine print under the table that Masters length is "recommended," rather than required, but in another line appears to require radius and width for everyone. And then says that this is all still being debated. So if I choose to use an older women's radius/length ( r24/181 cm) WC GS to get started on, and don't race at FIS events, am I in violation of something? 

Not at all. The really competitive guys ski on the FIS-mandated skis, but a lot of people ski on older skis that have the ">21M radius" or cheater race skis. I race with a couple people in their '80s, and there is no way they could race a FIS legal ski. It would be stupid to mandate it, because you would lose a lot of skiers to club leagues where that sort of nonsense doesn't happen.
 

 

If you can efficiently navigate the course on a particular ski, that's the ski for you.

post #12 of 13

Second on what Alaska Mike said. I looked in the Masters 2009 competition guide, and the only requirement is that Super G skis be at least 185 (probably not enforced except regional and national events). Depending on the course sets and your ability, you should be fine with a 181 or shorter in 21-24r.

 

I'm faster in our flat start beer league courses with my 18.5m Atomic GS12 cheaters than I am with my 21 meter Atomic LT12. Of course, it could be my lack of technique!

post #13 of 13

It really depends on the course. Like you said, you are now in the East, which, generally speaking, means that the courses will be far more turny than the courses out West. BUT, there are GS courses at some mountains (ie, Okemo, Sugarloaf, etc) that are dangerously fast, and would be stupid to ski on a 180 at a 21m radius. When I had a GS earlier this year at Okemo I was skiing on 187s @27m radius and I felt like I was going to die. Yet, I have also skiied on 21m 180s at Wildcat and felt like I couldn't turn. I would say just get a ski that is appropriate for the mountains that you will be skiing.

 

And don't be worried about a 185~ at a 27m. I do just fine on them and I'm a 150lb, 5'9" second year self-made racer.

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