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Copper and economy

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
Friday the 2nd was an absolute madhouse...packed to the rafters and waits at almost every major chair....Sat and Sun...both relatively dead.

Copper was deserted today.....I basically skied into every chair all day including Flyer and Eagle....when has that happened on a Sunday?
post #2 of 27
it happens alot after the holiday exodus. Nothing really to worry about.

Gas is so cheap, I think its going to be a crowded winter
post #3 of 27
On days when it's really freaking cold. I heard it was around 0 F at the base there today. It made the evening news down here in Denver.

Also, the holiday period is now over. There's always a lull then. People with kids have to head back. I'm headed up tomorrow for a training day.
post #4 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by daysailer1 View Post
On days when it's really freaking cold. I heard it was around 0 F at the base there today. It made the evening news down here in Denver.

Also, the holiday period is now over. There's always a lull then. People with kids have to head back. I'm headed up tomorrow for a training day.

Training? You must be core
post #5 of 27
Tomorrow's game plan:

2.5 hours of Cert 2 MA analysis training

then either:

1) freeriding on the snowboard

or more likely:

2) riding around the hill on this http://www.lenzsport.com/SkiBikes.html, having a blast, telling people about our awesome new product, handing out referral cards (and making money), and trying to convince people to take lessons from me.
post #6 of 27
It's funny- Alta's parking lot was 1/3 full on Sunday, but the place was a madhouse on Saturday. I'm guessing that with Colorado's cheap pass prices, cheap gas, and less work, it may be a busy winter for in state skiers, Utah too. Places that are more remote, destination resorts may be in for a rough time, and the airlines sure aren't making it easier.
post #7 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by daysailer1 View Post
Tomorrow's game plan:

2) riding around the hill on this http://www.lenzsport.com/SkiBikes.html, having a blast, telling people about our awesome new product, handing out referral cards (and making money), and trying to convince people to take lessons from me.
That think is too cool. Where in Summit/Vail/BC can you try one of those out and take a lesson?
post #8 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGASkiDawg View Post
Friday the 2nd was an absolute madhouse...packed to the rafters and waits at almost every major chair....Sat and Sun...both relatively dead.

Copper was deserted today.....I basically skied into every chair all day including Flyer and Eagle....when has that happened on a Sunday?
End of holiday. Traffic back to Denver was very heavy Friday afternoon/evening.

Friday was weird: we got out early, headed over and made laps on Sierra and Mountain Chief. No lines, no people. We skied Union Meadows to the base for lunch, and dang! there were all the people. It was a shock. The mountain had seemed empty. That's what I love about Copper. So easy to avoid the crowds!

Even with no new snow, Sierra was skiing great.
post #9 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGASkiDawg View Post
Friday the 2nd was an absolute madhouse...packed to the rafters and waits at almost every major chair....Sat and Sun...both relatively dead.

Copper was deserted today.....I basically skied into every chair all day including Flyer and Eagle....when has that happened on a Sunday?
I was at Copper Thursday and yesterday. Only a fraction of the people yesterday compared to the 1st, and much better snow. Overall, I think Sunday numbers at Copper are down this year. Could it be the Vail Epic Pass in conjunction with the ecomony?
post #10 of 27
I will be heading out to Copper to ski thursday thru sunday. How do you think the numbers will be then? How is the snow out there?
post #11 of 27
Thanks for the reports, and I'm glad to hear Copper's skiing well. Do you guys know if they've opened Tucker Mountain yet?
post #12 of 27
I was hoping to hit copper on our first trip out west but I'll have to save that for Phaze #2
post #13 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpetro2 View Post
Thanks for the reports, and I'm glad to hear Copper's skiing well. Do you guys know if they've opened Tucker Mountain yet?
Not yet, I think we need another good dump......more snow in the forecast for this week .
post #14 of 27
I've been skiing Copper for years, and their numbers are way down, based on my experience. I think that Copper has screwed up royally and lost a portion of its customer base. They want to be a destination resort, but they don't have the facilities to be one. They need to come to the realization that they are always going to depend heavily on the front range traffic, and they've got to make it an experience that front range skiers value.

Over the past three years, Copper's management (IMO) has failed to understand their competitive position for front range skier traffic. They've failed to understand that their mountain, while a great ski mountain, can't make up the difference in the variety of options that the Vail Resorts provide -- they have to price at a substantive discount to the Colorado Pass. Last year, they attempted to price at close to price parity with Vail Resorts, and their numbers dropped pretty significantly. This year, they realized that they had to drop their prices, but they couldn't compete with the Epic pass.

I think Fortress/Intrawest is starting to wake up. They decided to offer a 20% discount at the resort-owned restaurants for picture pass patrons through today. They extended their pass and four-pack sales, and removed all black-out restrictions on 4-passes over the holidays as well. It seems that management is focused on creating experiences at Copper that will differentiate themselves from VR. That's all good. Hopefully, they will continue to evolve in their thinking in a way that recognizes the primacy of front range skiers to their success.

I have high hopes for Copper -- I think it is the best of the Summit County resorts. I wouldn't have defected from Copper to Breck but for their losing their focus on front range skiers. Copper will always have a special place in my heart, as it is where I really became a good skier.

Mike
post #15 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdskr View Post
Not yet, I think we need another good dump......more snow in the forecast for this week .
No, and not much of Copper Bowl was open, either. Only to Matchless. They were bombing earlier in the week ... had a bit of slide activity over those big rocks near Iron Mask. But most everything else is open. It's still early for Tucker.
post #16 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdskr View Post
... Could it be the Vail Epic Pass in conjunction with the ecomony?
Maybe, but I also heard that VR pass sales were way down, too. I don't know numbers, but everyone I've talked to says everything is down. ABasin instructor, VR pass salesperson, ... I'm not sure it is a Copper phenomenon.

But I will say, the first reaction I had to the Epic Pass was joy, because I figured it would take some people off the Copper slopes.

THat was before the economy totally tanked, though ... now I'm not so sure. I like low crowds, but I am not ready to hike for all my turns, either.
post #17 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post
No, and not much of Copper Bowl was open, either. Only to Matchless. They were bombing earlier in the week ... had a bit of slide activity over those big rocks near Iron Mask. But most everything else is open. It's still early for Tucker.

segbrown we need to do some skiing together at Copper. I am there every weekend skiing with my kids and occasionally with your neighbors
post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGASkiDawg View Post
segbrown we need to do some skiing together at Copper. I am there every weekend skiing with my kids and occasionally with your neighbors
My neighbors??
post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Crab View Post
It's funny- Alta's parking lot was 1/3 full on Sunday, but the place was a madhouse on Saturday. I'm guessing that with Colorado's cheap pass prices, cheap gas, and less work, it may be a busy winter for in state skiers, Utah too. Places that are more remote, destination resorts may be in for a rough time, and the airlines sure aren't making it easier.
Solitude was just the opposite. Empty chairs on all lifts, no lines. Got fresh tracks in Evergreen and thru the glades. I have found that Alta and Snowbird are skied out the day after a storm which was the case this past Sunday.
post #20 of 27
Contrary to the post above, VR pass sales revenue was up 30%. Their advance bookings for lodgings were down 23%. These figures are from their 10Q and cover the quarter through the end of October.

Mike
post #21 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post
My neighbors??

I have some friends who have a unit in Copper Valley which is I believe where you told me your place was....
post #22 of 27
Spent Christmas vacation at Copper. Arrived on the 20th - skied the 21st through Jan 1. Overall, I'd say the numbers were decent, speaking from Copper's point of view, but certainly not what I would expect during the Holiday week. Blame the economy or Christmas being in the middle of the week or whatever, but it's rare to have little or no lift lines during the holiday week and we managed to wait no more than 10 minutes in any lift line the whole time we were there. Most of the time, we could ski right down and get immediately back on the lift, be it the Eagle, Flyer, or Super Bee.

As for courting the front rangers, I was told by a Copper EE that the normal blackouts for the 4 packs were lifted which usually brings in a ton of front rangers. Also heard that the unofficial count for Jan 1 was 10,000.
post #23 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
Spent Christmas vacation at Copper. Arrived on the 20th - skied the 21st through Jan 1. Overall, I'd say the numbers were decent, speaking from Copper's point of view, but certainly not what I would expect during the Holiday week. Blame the economy or Christmas being in the middle of the week or whatever, but it's rare to have little or no lift lines during the holiday week and we managed to wait no more than 10 minutes in any lift line the whole time we were there. Most of the time, we could ski right down and get immediately back on the lift, be it the Eagle, Flyer, or Super Bee.

As for courting the front rangers, I was told by a Copper EE that the normal blackouts for the 4 packs were lifted which usually brings in a ton of front rangers. Also heard that the unofficial count for Jan 1 was 10,000.
We talked to someone on ... Tuesday? Wednesday? who told us they had something like 10,600, which is was 1,400 over breakeven. (Numbers aren't exact due to faulty memory, but close)
post #24 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGASkiDawg View Post
I have some friends who have a unit in Copper Valley which is I believe where you told me your place was....
Yep ... okay. I was thinking about my other neighbors. :-)

We'll be up this weekend, PM me if you're around.
post #25 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post
Contrary to the post above, VR pass sales revenue was up 30%. Their advance bookings for lodgings were down 23%. These figures are from their 10Q and cover the quarter through the end of October.

Mike
Good to know. I wonder what she was talking about, then ... maybe the $1900 full Vail season passes? Really, she had all these numbers (30% down) and stuff. Oh well.
post #26 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post
Good to know. I wonder what she was talking about, then ... maybe the $1900 full Vail season passes? Really, she had all these numbers (30% down) and stuff. Oh well.
Or it could be that the number of passes sold is down, but the revenue is up (likely because of the introduction of the more expensive Epic pass).

Mike
post #27 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Crab View Post
It's funny- Alta's parking lot was 1/3 full on Sunday, but the place was a madhouse on Saturday. I'm guessing that with Colorado's cheap pass prices, cheap gas, and less work, it may be a busy winter for in state skiers, Utah too. Places that are more remote, destination resorts may be in for a rough time, and the airlines sure aren't making it easier.
Industry research has predicted the first part of your statement- people will still ski but closer to home for less money. But the airlines have dropped prices in accordance with fuel prices, and Vail Resorts is even offering a baggage fee "buyout" if you bring in your boarding pass to encourage people to come in. That being said advance reservations through december were down 23%
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