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Better Groomers....East or West?

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
Who has the better groomers? Who packs the fresh snow down the best after it dumps? Who farms the perfect corduroy?
post #2 of 26
East of what?
post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post
East of what?

Is there a difference in the type of corduroy cut on the east coast?

The west gets more snow, so I would think that makes the corduroy softer?
post #4 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahoegnar420 View Post
Is there a difference in the type of corduroy cut on the east coast?

The west gets more snow, so I would think that makes the corduroy softer?
Depends on the implement used for grooming, the adjustments made during grooming, the operators, and the skier traffic.

Copper Mountain, for example, uses compactor bars as much as possible, and tries to avoid tilling the snow. This leaves a softer surface when there is new snow, but the surface is not quite as durable. It also does not process old hardpack as well.

Most areas in the east AND the west use only tillers, and thus are completely processing the surface every night. But depending on depth of cut, tiller speed, direction of till, and up/down pressure, it can leave an entirely different surface.

The problem with tilling is that, once you till the snow, the only way to prepare the slope is to till it again (barring a decent snowfall). The action of the cutter bar turning in the snow causes the snow to heat and then refreeze, strengthening the bonds between the crystals. This leaves a harder, more durable snow surface... one that can only be reprocessed with a tiller.

Some places still bring out the rollers and powdermakers... but that is a whole different ball game.

Amount of snowfall and density of said snowfall will also make a difference in the qualities of a groomed slope. Mandmade vs. natural is a huge difference.

Whether the operator chooses to blade and turn the snow over, or just carry his blade.

Ambient temperature prior to, during, and following grooming.

Lots of factors.

Hard to say definitively that the east or the west has "better" groomed slopes.
post #5 of 26
nothing better than rippin some roy.
post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post
East of what?
Or west of what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushMogulMaster View Post
Depends on the implement used for grooming, the adjustments made during grooming, the operators, and the skier traffic.

Copper Mountain, for example, uses compactor bars as much as possible, and tries to avoid tilling the snow. This leaves a softer surface when there is new snow, but the surface is not quite as durable. It also does not process old hardpack as well.

Most areas in the east AND the west use only tillers, and thus are completely processing the surface every night. But depending on depth of cut, tiller speed, direction of till, and up/down pressure, it can leave an entirely different surface.

The problem with tilling is that, once you till the snow, the only way to prepare the slope is to till it again (barring a decent snowfall). The action of the cutter bar turning in the snow causes the snow to heat and then refreeze, strengthening the bonds between the crystals. This leaves a harder, more durable snow surface... one that can only be reprocessed with a tiller.

Some places still bring out the rollers and powdermakers... but that is a whole different ball game.

Amount of snowfall and density of said snowfall will also make a difference in the qualities of a groomed slope. Mandmade vs. natural is a huge difference.

Whether the operator chooses to blade and turn the snow over, or just carry his blade.

Ambient temperature prior to, during, and following grooming.

Lots of factors.

Hard to say definitively that the east or the west has "better" groomed slopes.
I don't think that is the answer you are looking for, is it?
post #7 of 26

why would anyone ski a groomer west of colorado?

oh,maybe to test the virtues of reverse camber vs elf-foot vs hell-bent style shapes to get back to the lift?
post #8 of 26
Anything groomed is the best of groomers.....east or west.

I find it hilarious that the magazines provide a survey of best grooming??.......Deer Valley always wins.

Have they ever skied the groomers at Sugarloaf??.....Obviously NOT!!!

Sugarloaf has the widest smoothest fastest corduroyknown to man!!!

Just like Deer Valley!!!!!!!!!!!
post #9 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loafer '81 View Post
Anything groomed is the best of groomers.....east or west.

I find it hilarious that the magazines provide a survey of best grooming??.......Deer Valley always wins.

Have they ever skied the groomers at Sugarloaf??.....Obviously NOT!!!

Sugarloaf has the widest smoothest fastest corduroyknown to man!!!

Just like Deer Valley!!!!!!!!!!!
This reinforces my decision to avoid both of those places.
post #10 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushMogulMaster View Post
Depends on the implement used for grooming, the adjustments made during grooming, the operators, and the skier traffic.

Copper Mountain, for example, uses compactor bars as much as possible, and tries to avoid tilling the snow. This leaves a softer surface when there is new snow, but the surface is not quite as durable. It also does not process old hardpack as well.

Most areas in the east AND the west use only tillers, and thus are completely processing the surface every night. But depending on depth of cut, tiller speed, direction of till, and up/down pressure, it can leave an entirely different surface.

The problem with tilling is that, once you till the snow, the only way to prepare the slope is to till it again (barring a decent snowfall). The action of the cutter bar turning in the snow causes the snow to heat and then refreeze, strengthening the bonds between the crystals. This leaves a harder, more durable snow surface... one that can only be reprocessed with a tiller.

Some places still bring out the rollers and powdermakers... but that is a whole different ball game.

Amount of snowfall and density of said snowfall will also make a difference in the qualities of a groomed slope. Mandmade vs. natural is a huge difference.

Whether the operator chooses to blade and turn the snow over, or just carry his blade.

Ambient temperature prior to, during, and following grooming.

Lots of factors.

Hard to say definitively that the east or the west has "better" groomed slopes.
OK, so I am definitely a nerd, but this is the most interesting post I have read on here in a while. Thanks for the details BMM! I think I have subconsciously wanted to drive a groomer for many years. When having some beers at Alta with my wife last year, she noticed that my mouth was stuck open and my eyes were intently focused when we watched the groomers working after the slopes closed. It was really cool.
post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post
OK, so I am definitely a nerd, but this is the most interesting post I have read on here in a while. Thanks for the details BMM! I think I have subconsciously wanted to drive a groomer for many years. When having some beers at Alta with my wife last year, she noticed that my mouth was stuck open and my eyes were intently focused when we watched the groomers working after the slopes closed. It was really cool.
My pleasure. My industry rants usually take a bit of a technical direction!

If you just happen to show up in Vermont ever, send me a PM and I'll take you for a cat ride and give you as much detail as you want!
post #12 of 26
Here's a vintage Tucker that roams our Mt.
Thanks BMM. You sound like an operater.
post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahoegnar420 View Post
Who has the better groomers? Who packs the fresh snow down the best after it dumps? Who farms the perfect corduroy?
HA you are a oxyMOraN, jong. i 420 at 300 ystyerday gnarring shed til and i drag myself to teh internets at teh crack of noon and what do i read but this jong postings. everybodies but northstargnar420's knos that groomers is grommers, cord is cord and teh only difference is if the groomers are parked at the top or the bottom... sheeesh wuts this board coming to??
post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
Or west of what?


I don't think that is the answer you are looking for, is it?
That is the funny thing about this place, people are happy to seriously answer a trolls question.
post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
Here's a vintage Tucker that roams our Mt.
Thanks BMM. You sound like an operater.
very cool. mountains need more of those to make em more carvable. too much ungroomed junk out there.
post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushMogulMaster View Post
My pleasure. My industry rants usually take a bit of a technical direction!

If you just happen to show up in Vermont ever, send me a PM and I'll take you for a cat ride and give you as much detail as you want!
Deal! One of these days I plan to get back up to Sugarbush for a week or so. I used to be a regular there up until about 97/98.
post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loafer '81 View Post
Anything groomed is the best of groomers.....east or west.

I find it hilarious that the magazines provide a survey of best grooming??.......Deer Valley always wins.

Have they ever skied the groomers at Sugarloaf??.....Obviously NOT!!!

Sugarloaf has the widest smoothest fastest corduroyknown to man!!!

Just like Deer Valley!!!!!!!!!!!
It's been quite a while since I've been to Sugarloaf... I remember a lot of groomers there, but I've always thought of the "corduroy heavens" in New England as:
Okemo
Sunapee
Bretton Woods
post #18 of 26
You should ask this on the TGR website. You would get lots of responses over there.
post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2 ski View Post
That is the funny thing about this place, people are happy to seriously answer a trolls question.
Sometimes they lend themselves to interesting discussions, regardless of the original intent.
post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by eblackwelder View Post
You should ask this on the TGR website. You would get lots of responses over there.
Actually, people over there are usually smart enough to tell if someone is so obviously a troll.
post #21 of 26
Groomers suck no matter if they are East or West...what's the point?
post #22 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylormatt View Post
Groomers suck no matter if they are East or West...what's the point?
so when are we setting up pole and getting a bump line on imperial then?
post #23 of 26
I love this line. Good one!!.....luv it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead River View Post
very cool. mountains need more of those to make em more carvable. too much ungroomed junk out there.
post #24 of 26
I thought the best groomers were in Japan. tho I suppose that would qualify as East.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karpiel View Post
Actually, people over there are usually smart enough to tell if someone is so obviously a troll.
Funny thing is, there are like tons of people from "over there" currently trolling here. I'm not including myself in the above statement.




WOOOOSH!!!!
post #25 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
so when are we setting up pole and getting a bump line on imperial then?
Probably when Winter decides to stick around for more than 48 hours.
post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loafer '81 View Post
I love this line. Good one!!.....luv it!

Notice how old that junker is? They don't use them much in these parts. They can't get around in all that deep,wet snow.
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