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Year-over-year improvement - to Bob Barnes

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
This is primarily to Bob Barnes, but felt like bragging a bit. Last year I hit this forum and asked for some feedback from the pros on my form. Comments were primarily focused around my old school carving technique. I beleive it was called an "A-Frame".

Bob Barnes posted a simple reply: "I'd like to see a more active inside ski". That got me thinking. I ski about 20 days per year. I spend a lot of time just enjoying the speed and trying to find chutes and cornices to scare me. But when ever I hit the groomers, Bob's words echo in my mind: "I'd like to see a more active inside ski".

So Bob, end of Feb, at Big Mtn., my sister snaps this shot of me making a high speed groomer run. Is this what you had in mind for a more active inside ski? By the way, in both photos I've got the same skis and boots - Rossi XXX Bandits.

Looking at the shot I'm thinking I've got to watch the body tilt and dropping the inside hand.

Feb. 2002

Second shot is taken earlier in the turn than the first. Feet are closer together than I perceived.

I found this shot from 1981 stuffed in an old photo album. Seems dropping the inside hand has been with me for awhile.

1981 - GS Crystal Mtn.

Give me a thought for next year Bob [img]smile.gif[/img] .

For those interested, the complete photo album from Big Mtn, is located at http://www.cartogra.com enter wohenry in the view a friend's album section.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 14, 2002 07:44 AM: Message edited 4 times, by 270Bullet ]</font>
post #2 of 17
looking good. :

I would start working you on getting that right shoulder down and a little more angulation. If you drew a line across your toes, ankles, then knees, hips/waist, shoulders and hands, all the lines should be parallel..

I'm sure there are other things but that's what this level 1/level 2 candidate's Eyes see.

Major improvement over last years picture from where I sit..

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 13, 2002 11:03 PM: Message edited 1 time, by dchan ]</font>
post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
Thanks dchan. A good thought to carry with me end of this month when I head back out with my daughters.
post #4 of 17

I just read your caption. You see the banking yourself..

Exercise to try,

On an easy slope, turn your hands over on your poles and hold them out to your sides like a sabre or sword. stiff straight wrist and arm, and place the point in the snow out away from you and just in front of the plane of your toes. Ski some turns with the tips dragging. Don't let them get behind you or off the ground. (no airplanes) This will force your upper body in a more proper possition. You should start to feel that pressure build under your outside ski as you enter the belly of the turn.

After a few of these turns, Try the shoe box exercise or skip the pole plants for a few runs and try to drag your pole tips in the snow (both poles all the time) right about at your heels. Really make that snow fly off the tips of your poles as you make turns. (EXERCISE! NOT the way to ski all the time)
Try it at high speeds, steep, as well as easy. even in small bumps..

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 13, 2002 11:13 PM: Message edited 1 time, by dchan ]</font>
post #5 of 17

Good improvement. Tried to get to the website, but got an error message. I will try later on a different computer.

Later today I will have time to write several thoughts for next year, with "drills".

To get you thinking....1 - "Let the Force be with you!" Face the Force and let it work through you. 2 - Skiing is a downhill sport, so go downhill.

dchan - good eye. To improve teaching/coaching, think of "what, when, how, why" and give that to your student.(not necessarily all at once.) Another thought is from AASI is "tidbit" which is for Timing(when), Intensity(how much), Duration(how long).
post #6 of 17

At work, and saw your photo album. Nice shots. If you could get a side shot, that will help with fore/aft balance thoughts. Your arms at your sides implies you are sitting back. Pressure on your heels more than the balls of your foot? Should be the same for balance.

When I said.. 1 - "Let the Force be with you!" Face the Force and let it work through you... I was referring to the same angles that dchan mentioned. To get good forces translated to your edges.. to keep your center of mass over your base of support.. you need to have your body "pinched" sideways so that your knees, hips, shoulders are at the same angle as the slope you are skiing on. This is after the fall line through the belly of the turn.

You may have heard that the body takes an "inside line" to your skiis in a turn. This is done through angulation, not banking. You seem to be banking in your turn.(leaning into the center of the turn).

So, how to angulate("pinch sideways") and Face the Force?

Some drills to help. 1 - Hold your poles (palm side down) in front of you at chest level. Hands are at the basket and handle,.. so they may seem fairly wide (they're not). Always look above the pole, and at the beginning of each turn, push your arms away from your body(push pole forward, hips will follow) into the new turn. This will.. help initiate a turn.. let the force of the turn move your body to the inside of the new turn.. keep your head up.. and align your joints (knees/hips/shoulders) to the slope of the hill to accept the new force of the upcoming turn.

2 - Without poles try this one. At the fall line, be fairly "tall" in your stance. To start the bottom portion of the turn, bend sideways at the hip and touch the outside boot with your hand. You must use the inside hand as a driving force and have it over your inside tip. Exaggerate the inside hand(prevents sitting down), it helps keep an active steering of the inside half. This will help to bend the joints into alignment to accept the force of the turn. It will also increase awareness of the driving forward throughout a turn. Banking is impossible, so you see that the angles help you Face the Force!

So after the drills, place the feeling into skiing. Arms wide for balance, move the hip into the new turn, bend to accept the new forces, look where you are going.

"Let the Force be with you!" Face the Force and let it work through you. [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #7 of 17
Not a comment, but a question to pros. Is his uphill hand just a tad too far back behind his body?
post #8 of 17
270bullet and Lisamarie

In another thread someone said whatever is uphill is in front.

To help get into a good habit, try to keep the arms in a V from your body (pole handle to pole tip apart-palms down exercise) AND keep the uphill (inside) hand over the front tips.

This will help with driving forward, .. balance forward, ..range of motion maximums, ..edge control, ..I can go on , but won't.

From the first photo, Bullet is looking down(pole exercise!!!) and is on the downhill heel out of balance(hand to boot exercise).

From the second photo, Bullet is not committing the upper body to go with the Force downhill. Seen by the inside arm being back and too far uphill. Face the Force! (ski pole exercise of pushing arms..hips.. downhill)

The more you can have the arms (balance) going into the turn, the better it will be. Skiing is a downhill sport. [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #9 of 17

Maybe a little. keetov addressed that as a balance issue. I would probably work on fore\aft balance too. try Hopping as an exercise on easy groomed snow. Do this on easy terrain and while turning.. You can't hop of if your balance is fore or aft...

Keep both hands in your field of view.
post #10 of 17
270 bullett loved the old style afranme race pic. I looked at your web site and you really look comfortable in the air. i have a question did you give up skiing for awhile, your pics from last year doesn't look like an exracer who has kept skiing a lot over the last 20 years.

Also who were the big guns at crystal during race. was lauba there or was he on ski team than or kelly mccann, dave mahulco or mcnabbs.
do you ski out of crystal now
post #11 of 17
Thread Starter 
360Dave - Alan Lauba, wow, haven't heard that name in ages. It is Alan right? Kelly McCann rings a bell, but just can't quite get into focus.

I believe Lauba was at that race. Also racing were Billy Dorris, Matt Davidson, Tom Bowers, Dan Benson, Chris Bailey. Those are the ones I remember anyway. Dan and I were pretty good friends back then. A lot of other faces come to mind, but can't place a name with them. Deb Armstrong was racing on the women's side of things.

I was 12th after the first run, then, right out of the start on the second run, blew the only buckle on my Salomon boots. Had to ski the entire second run with my foot flopping around in an unbuckled boot. Fell back to 20 something.

My sister was more famous than I ever became. Unfortunately she died in a downhill at Mission Ridge in the late 70's.

I skied every chance I had since I was two. Raced for 5 years. Then I took time off from '82-'86, skied just a couple of days/year from '87 - '89, then took more time off again from '89 -'95. Starting a family, building a career, and all that. Plus, the industry seemed kind of dead during that time frame. But the real reason was I lost the passion for skiing.

I didn't really get back into skiing until '95. Even then I only skied a couple of weekends per year.

Then about 3 years ago I skied 1/2 a day with Gordy Pfiefer at Whistler. The passion was reignited. He reminded me why skiing was fun. Paid me the best compliment I had ever heard. "Nice to ski with someone with a real job who still rips."

That did it. Passion for skiing was back. So the last few years I've been logging about 20-30 days per year. Plus I'm having fun skiing with my kids not worrying about the next race or FIS points and all that.

I'm very comfortable in the air on straight airs. Love flying. Spinning is something of a different sort. 360s are ok, with the occasional 270 (oops), but can't do any of the other new school stuff.

By the way, not that I'm sensitive or anything - if I was I wouldn't have posted the pics - but what do you mean by:

"your pics from last year doesn't look like an exracer who has kept skiing a lot over the last 20 years."

Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Better get back to work now.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 14, 2002 12:07 PM: Message edited 3 times, by 270Bullet ]</font>
post #12 of 17
No offense meant you just look so diff in this years pics and so comfy in the air, it looks like you just were skiing old school up until this year.

I say this because I ski a lot with exracers from that era and they all made the switch years ago to new school, and they are such great dynamic skiers and I bet you are too.

By they way alan is the head coach at cmac and has been for 5 years now has 2 boys that are great racers. I ski with a bunch of people you probable know. One is moureen hammond I think she was a friend and teammate of your sisters.

I ran the races at crystal for about 10 years and just retired this year.

do you ski crystal a lot
post #13 of 17
sorry maureens maried name is hammond I dont remember her maiden name irishman from spokane and than skied out of mission ridge academy. and was later on development team as a downhiller
post #14 of 17
Thread Starter 

No offense taken. That's what I thought you meant. Good eye. I only skied a total of 7 - 10 days between '82 and '99. Then I switched to some new gear. It was just this year that I started feeling comfortable putting more weight on the uphill ski and using it more while carving groomers. On the steeps, I've always been more of a two footed skier.

Maureen is a name I don't know. However, my last year racing I was pretty well burnt out and didn't make a lot of friends - in fact probably made some enemies. Anyway, she may have known my sisters. I am the youngest and my sisters were generally more popular, with a wider circle of friends than I. Actually, as I close this, I remember Darci Burns was racing at Mission. I think she went onto the Dev. team as well. I do remember there was a girl there who came over from Spokane - may have been Maureen but I just can't place her.

I have one sister that lives in Tacoma. She skis Crystal and White Pass a lot. The other two surviving sisters live on east side and ski primarily Mission. I haven't been back to Crystal since '81. I used to love going there.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 14, 2002 08:42 PM: Message edited 4 times, by 270Bullet ]</font>
post #15 of 17
Look great to me, but I'm just a Bubba.

'81, that year I had a non-skiing related knee operaton, missed the season.
post #16 of 17
270Bullet's angles in his Feb. 2002 turns are just fine from my point of view although I do agree that you could improve your hand jive.

On the angles, I think there is a tendency for good skiers to angulate way too much on the modern skis. If I see the inside hand and shoulder lower than the outside hand and shoulder, I don't think I'm looking at a problem. It only becomes a problem when the tipping of the torso to the slope is more than that of the legs. In his picture he's got enough hip and knee angulation to allow the torso to go in quite far. The reason I want to see that is that the further he banks in, while remaining in balance with adjustability, the more load he can put on his ski. Also notice that he is pretty well forward as evidenced by the bend in the ankles and knees.

I believe if the inside hand would drive forward more, it would be excellent. The difficulty of that is that the pole starts to get in the way. The solution to that is to place the pole at about about right angles to the ski and go ahead and let the tip drag in the snow (but don't wait it). You may not like that pole angle to the ski (I do), but at least letting that pole stay in the snow on the inside gives you a lot of feedback where your hands are relative to your feet and body.

Nice turns.

I can barely count the number of racers who have told me over the years that I angulate way too much. It took me that long to understand it. We bank, because we can!
post #17 of 17
Wow 270Bullet--Looks good to me! I've been away for a couple days, and haven't yet had a chance to catch up on the discussion here, but at first glance it looks like the focus on your inside leg has has worked! The old A-frame is gone, and the alignment of your legs and body look much more functional.

I'll take a closer look and read the rest of the discussion and get back to you. Well done!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
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