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Just a few remarks and questions

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
There are a lot of discussions about fat skies. Many years ago
I skied some 200 Dynamic V27 SL in powder without any problem. At
that time I read a review in a skimag which stated that this is
not possible.
One year I had a private lesson in Verbier with an ex racer.
He had very old skies but skied a lot better and faster then
his ski instructor colleagues.
What do we learn from that? Don't give too much on all this talk. Finally it comes down to the skier.

I ski the whole mountain. That means really the whole mountain,
steeps, chutes, wide long turns, bump zipper lines.
My famous run for many years: Under the lift of La Herse on Grand Montets as well as the wide open runs on Grand Montets.

Currently I ski an X Scream and this ski is great. Nevertheless
it gets a bit old now. Therefore I am looking for something new.
I can only afford ONE ski and thats not so easy. Skies have
become very specialized. In addition we all don't get younger, so the zipper lines get shorter.

I am looking into a ski with a Fritschie AT. This would allow me to ski all and put some skins on it as well. Regarding the Ski I am undecided.
In an Austrian(!) ski forum they had some concern on the durability of Atomic. There it was stated that the tube construction of Atomic might not hold for very long. They were very much in favor of sandwitch constructions. One guy stated that in the WorldCup the Atomic skies are very different (as we all know) and are sandwitch
based rather then having the tube. Based on that they were recommending more Fischer or Dynastar. I think Salomon is not common in Austria and don't come with a german Voelkl. Any ideas?

There was also an interesting point regarding boots. I am very satisfied with my Salaomon but one guy ment that using the Scarpa
Denali might be great for a all around boot. Any comments?

One more. I heared more and more about randonee competitions.
Has anybody heared about these kind of events here in the Pacific West?

[ November 14, 2003, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: Butzi ]
post #2 of 11
As far as skis:

If you're truly worried about the tube construction of atomics (which you probably shouldn't be)...then look into something with a racing type construction with "real sidewalls". You probably know, many of today's skis are much wider but still very versatile. It's not uncommon for people to be skiing on skis with 80+ waists R:EX would be your atomic version.

Look into something like the Volkl G4 or AX4 (same ski, different year), Dynastar 4x4 Big or Inspired Nobis, Blizzard Sigma Titan 8.2....the list could go on forever. The fact is that most skis are made well these days and you really don't have to worry about durability.
post #3 of 11
On durability of Atomics. The avalanche crew here in the Canadian Rockies (comes by that name honestly) have been using Atomics extensively. Many have been amazed at the durability of the skis given the harsh abuse they put them through. One was amazed he had 2 full seasons on a pair and was going into a third. Our season starts early Nov and ends in May that's working full time on the ski cutting thin slopes and hoofing over wind scoured ridges often not long enough to bother taking off the skis. On the World Cup the laminate construction skis are only in the speed events, SG and DH. One major reason for this is it just has not been worth the expense of retooling a production line for these limited production skis with a very exclusive market when the laminates they already made do the job. I suggest you would be wrong to dismiss atomics on that basis. In fact I would say you would have much greater durability issues with the Salomons.
post #4 of 11
Quote:
Originally posted by L7:
On the World Cup the laminate construction skis are only in the speed events, SG and DH. One major reason for this is it just has not been worth the expense of retooling a production line for these limited production skis with a very exclusive market when the laminates they already made do the job. I suggest you would be wrong to dismiss atomics on that basis. In fact I would say you would have much greater durability issues with the Salomons.
L7, you are absolutely correct about the durability of ALL Atomics and the sandwich construction of Atomic Speed skis. We have had absolutly no durability problems with any of our Atomic skis.

But you are incorrect about the World Cup GS11 & Slalom11 race skis. They are similar in general construction, but the side cut dimensions the lengths and the actual shape & dimensions of the BETA is completely different than either the race stock skis or the store stock skis. I have 2 pair of race stock GS 11.21 and 4 pair of Race Stock SL11.12. We also have 2 pair of World Cup GS11.21 and 2 pair of World Cup SL11.12 all currently sitting in my garage!

The GS & SL world cups have a much larger, virtually square rather than round Beta Lobes that are so high & square it almost creates a "Sidewall". The World Cup GS ski is much narrower in the tip & tail than the other skis & the World Cup Slaloms have a different sidecut and are 165cm where the race stock and Store bought skis are 164cm. Also, the slalom has the big square Beta like the GS. Your theory of saving money due to not having to retool is apparantly out the window. As you can see, other than graphics and some material similarity, the World Cups are nothing like the other skis. Obviously the Flex is also completely different. But that is not a retooling issue like the shape,size and sidecut dimensions of the Beta & topskin!

There always seems to be some confusion with almost all the companies as to what their World Cup gear really is & who actually has it. Salomon for instance has about 3 or 4 levels of "Race Stock" gear. I spoke directly with the President of Atomic USA when we got these World Cup skis for my older son. But quite honestly, we still don't know if they are same as what anyone on the World Cup is actually skiing on. I can just guarantee you they are different than what Atomic terms Race Stock & the Race Stock skis are different than the Store Stock skis. I have some of those also.

Respectfully:

Atomicman

[ November 15, 2003, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: Atomicman ]
post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 
Sorry guys but we all love to ski with our new skis under
the blue sky (blue skies?)
post #6 of 11
Quote:
Originally posted by cmon snow:
As far as skis:

If you're truly worried about the tube construction of atomics (which you probably shouldn't be)...then look into something with a racing type construction with "real sidewalls". You probably know, many of today's skis are much wider but still very versatile. It's not uncommon for people to be skiing on skis with 80+ waists R:EX would be your atomic version.

Look into something like the Volkl G4 or AX4 (same ski, different year), Dynastar 4x4 Big or Inspired Nobis, Blizzard Sigma Titan 8.2....the list could go on forever. The fact is that most skis are made well these days and you really don't have to worry about durability.
We had an enourmous amount of trouble with Volkl's staying together a few years back before we switched to Atomic. Seven pair of my sons skis(He was 13 at the time) Broke or delaminted in one season. I must admit they were very good & replaced everything on warranty, but there was a time period where he couldn't get the correct length replacement ski he needed to race on. I loved Volkls in the old days & skied on them for the better part of 20 years. When they were predominatley hand built similar to todays Stockli. But their tip protectors have become flimsy and their mass production attitude have made their construction integrity suspect the last few years. Our Atomics have been bullet proof!

Over & out!

Atomicman, skier formerly known as Volklman

[ November 15, 2003, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Atomicman ]
post #7 of 11
Get a mid-fat, you don't know what you are missing!
post #8 of 11
Quote:
Originally posted by Atomicman:

But you are incorrect about the World Cup GS11 & Slalom11 race skis. They are similar in general construction, but the side cut dimensions the lengths and the actual shape & dimensions of the BETA is completely different than either the race stock skis or the store stock skis. I have 2 pair of race stock GS 11.21 and 4 pair of Race Stock SL11.12. We also have 2 pair of World Cup GS11.21 and 2 pair of World Cup SL11.12 all currently sitting in my garage!

The GS & SL world cups have a much larger, virtually square rather than round Beta Lobes that are so high & square it almost creates a "Sidewall". The World Cup GS ski is much narrower in the tip & tail than the other skis & the World Cup Slaloms have a different sidecut and are 165cm where the race stock and Store bought skis are 164cm. Also, the slalom has the big square Beta like the GS. Your theory of saving money due to not having to retool is apparantly out the window. As you can see, other than graphics and some material similarity, the World Cups are nothing like the other skis. Obviously the Flex is also completely different. But that is not a retooling issue like the shape,size and sidecut dimensions of the Beta & topskin!

Respectfully:

Atomicman[/QB]
I said the retooling is one reason but not necessarily the only one. I'm not sure if the retooling is more applicable to lengths of the speed skis as opposed to new beta shape or if the shapes you are seeing may literally be 'the shape of things to come'. The comment on the retooling costs comes from a good friend who has spent considerable time with the head designer with Atomic in Europe. I'll see him soon enough and check if he's just blowing smoke but I doubt it.
post #9 of 11
Quote:
Originally posted by L7:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Atomicman:

But you are incorrect about the World Cup GS11 & Slalom11 race skis. They are similar in general construction, but the side cut dimensions the lengths and the actual shape & dimensions of the BETA is completely different than either the race stock skis or the store stock skis. I have 2 pair of race stock GS 11.21 and 4 pair of Race Stock SL11.12. We also have 2 pair of World Cup GS11.21 and 2 pair of World Cup SL11.12 all currently sitting in my garage!

The GS & SL world cups have a much larger, virtually square rather than round Beta Lobes that are so high & square it almost creates a "Sidewall". The World Cup GS ski is much narrower in the tip & tail than the other skis & the World Cup Slaloms have a different sidecut and are 165cm where the race stock and Store bought skis are 164cm. Also, the slalom has the big square Beta like the GS. Your theory of saving money due to not having to retool is apparantly out the window. As you can see, other than graphics and some material similarity, the World Cups are nothing like the other skis. Obviously the Flex is also completely different. But that is not a retooling issue like the shape,size and sidecut dimensions of the Beta & topskin!

Respectfully:

Atomicman
I said the retooling is one reason but not necessarily the only one. I'm not sure if the retooling is more applicable to lengths of the speed skis as opposed to new beta shape or if the shapes you are seeing may literally be 'the shape of things to come'. The comment on the retooling costs comes from a good friend who has spent considerable time with the head designer with Atomic in Europe. I'll see him soon enough and check if he's just blowing smoke but I doubt it.[/QB]</font>[/quote]The speed skis are now also in different lengths because of the new FIS sidecut & length rules this year!

They have been making the squarer bigger Beta's that are for World Cup since the GS11 came out last year, so these are not future skis. We just didn't get the chance to get them last year. But we did know another racer who had them last season. I am assuming since the World Cup Slalom & GS are different shape, Length and construction they are made in a different mold than the Race Stock or Store bought skis.

Anyway, my son & I wear the same size boot and he has identical racers & trainers in each ski, which means I'll get to take a couple of runs on his trainers & pretend I am the Herminator! Talk to you soon!

A-man

[ November 16, 2003, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Atomicman ]
post #10 of 11
Fischer seems to have come back, and are worth your consideration as a possible demo. If at all possible demo before you buy. You are the final and ultimately the best judge of what a ski can do for you.

In the USA sometimes we just express it this way: "try'em before you buy'em!"
post #11 of 11
skis have not become very specialised - the marketing has become very specialised

a new mid fat (like your xscream) will still do everything if you are a competent skier.

I like atomics and would have thought R11 or REx would do you just fine.
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