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boot volume question

post #1 of 6
Thread Starter 
Cross post from equipment (sorry about post length):

I've read through most of the boot fitting threads - - which have been really helpful.

But I was wondering if there are some specific guides covering how much room one should have in the arch/toe area of a boot. Ideally I'm looking for guidelines for both with just the shell and then also with the liner in.

Specifically, can someone answer the question "What is the shell fit like for volume?" Similar to the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion:
1) What is the shell fit like for length? Remove the liner, put your foot in the shell only, have your toes lightly touching the front of the boot and see how much room is behind your heel and the boots shell. Use a pen as a spacer and measure this for thickness. You want 5-15mm (3/16 to 5/8 inch) of room. If you have more then 25mm (1") stop here

2) What is the shell fit like for width? Now center your foot front to back, (same amount of room behind the toe and heel) and is the width of your foot touching the sides of the boots shell? You want anything from lightly brushing to 2mm per side. If you have 3mm per side stop here.
And when the boots are buckled in - - how much wiggle room should there be up front (assuming a high level all mountain skier, but not WC racer ).

I feel like I want the boot tighter up front - - but my boot fitter says it's okay as (the boot presses on the top of my foot, but I have enough room to curl my toes underneath about half as much compared to when not wearing the boot). Are there some guidelines on this??

thanks



Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
Some of this doesn't seem like an answerable online question. You might try over in the boot forum. IMO "volume" can mean "width" or it can actually involve three dimensions; depends on the brand. I've never heard of a rule like you quote for length or width.

As far as wiggle room, you don't define what you mean by "front" or explain why you want it tighter. The very front doesn't have much to do with control. IMO you better be able to wiggle your toes a bit or you'll be in for a world of pain when the temps drop. Specifically you don't want the top of the liner pressuring the top of any toe, period, and you want a firm fit, but not major pressure over the ball when you're in normal skiing stance.

If your fitter says you're good to go, and this is a real shop, not a super-chain, you probably are.
Fair points.

To try and clarify - - I'm talking about the vertical volume, or the room on top of my foot if one were to look at a cross section from the side.

There are times when skiing in these boots that I can feel myself curl my toes - - as if I'm trying to "fill up the volume". (My boots fit great length and width - - but apparently I have a low volume front of foot.)

The quotes above regarding length and width are from the "sticky" thread at the top of the boot expert forum here, posted by mntlion (one of the boot fitters here) and are part of a post describing boot fit.

So, I guess I'm asking: If one is in a shop, fitting new boots, there are guidelines posted here describing how to judge boot length and width. But boots are 3-dimensional. Are there guidelines for when fitting a boot to determine if the up-down vertical fit is good?? Say above the arch/instep/ball and toes. How tight should this optimally be here?? Is there some type of heuristic??

Hope this is at least somewhat clearer/relevant.

(My boot fitter is from a respected local small shop, where I bought the boots. But it's hard for me to judge his qualifications. Nice guy. Trying hard. But I'm not sure he has the full knowledge. I did visit another fitter listed here on Epic to help with canting and paid out-of-pocket for that, since canting did turn out to be beyond my guy's abilities. But after skiing on my boots some more I went back to the original guy to approach this volume question/issue.)
post #2 of 6
a little up and down wiggle of the toes is a good thing, unless you fancy frostbite, you do sound like you have rather a lot, first thing i would try is putting a piece of thin neoprene or leather onto the top of the liner over the toes, this may be all you need to get rid of the feeling of too much space but allow the toes a little freedom
post #3 of 6
I've never thought of guidelines but your ability to curl your toes so much requires I think space above the instep to allow the foot to lift. Is it possible there is a lack of pressure from the tongue down onto your instep? It should definitely not be crushing, but there should be definite pressure to load the arch.

Lou
post #4 of 6
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Rosenfeld View Post
I've never thought of guidelines but your ability to curl your toes so much requires I think space above the instep to allow the foot to lift. Is it possible there is a lack of pressure from the tongue down onto your instep? It should definitely not be crushing, but there should be definite pressure to load the arch.

Lou
Thanks. That's the type of info I'm looking for.

I've been playing around a bit on my own. I've put in "The Eliminator" tongue - - the bottom of which extends over my arch. This is much better. I'm also seeing how a 1/4" neoprene(?) pad feels when placed on the liner over the front part of my foot (starting at the point where the Eliminator stops, after my arch). I don't know if these two items will pack-out and need further adjustments over time. But with the addition of these two I feel like I've got something like the right pressure over my arch, without having to really crank and over-buckle.

Apparently, I've got a foot shape that is relatively easy to fit length and width (and the shell fits beautifully here, after some work by my bootfitter), but in cross-section (the 3rd dimension of vertical height) is unusually low in profile/volume.

I guess I could go to a shell that is too small length and width to get the right volume/height, and then really work on the boots to get my feet in there. But that seems like an awful lot of work for a serious but recreational skier - - and my bootfitter just shook his head and said I would be nuts to do so.

I think that this forum has got me sooo focused on boot fit, that I may also be going a bit overboard...

Anyway, thanks again.
post #5 of 6
feet shaped like pancakes?

where they run over by a roller as a child?

if the width and length are right, you can add a full length shim under the footbed to raise the foot up in the boot and make it tighter over the instep
post #6 of 6
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
feet shaped like pancakes?

where they run over by a roller as a child?

if the width and length are right, you can add a full length shim under the footbed to raise the foot up in the boot and make it tighter over the instep
Finally, my condition has a label!! I, apparently, indeed am pancake-footed.

Yeah, I'll try the shims too, thanks.
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