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Life after Volkl P9 RS Super? - Page 2

post #31 of 50

Lizzy the advice you have been given is good, when I started skiing it was the old style you are saying that you ski, but there have been many changes since, it would be good to take a lesson. Sl skis are not meant to go real fast. The new skis are way better and make skiing much easier, you need to learn to work your legs independently; think about this; if you were to stand with your feet together I could push you over easy( not that I would), it is fine to bring them in at one point in the turn but you will get much more stability if the were in a more natural standing spot as the base of the turn. Today we do not go as much forward to back as we used to, we do a lot more hip angulation and hip floating. When you do take off fast on todays skis you need to keep them some what on edge or the will want to wabble back and forth.

I have also been an instructor, and I was a ski patrol, and raced, today I just ski for fun. 

I like a lot of people use different skis for different conditions, all mt. skis for average days, powder skis for powder days, race skis for blasting the groomers.

I have a set of Volkl Speed Wall GS skis coming this week, I am told they are good up to 70 MPH. I am a big guy and a strong skier so I get skis in the longest lengths they make, so consider where you ski, and how big and strong of a skier you are when thinking about length, the new skis do ski longer than there length would suggest.

post #32 of 50
Thread Starter 

When i first posted this question it was some 5 years back in 2008 (see top of the threat) Since then I have followed up on the advice that was given here and took lessons and learned how to ski with carves. I also had time to reflect on the differences between them and for me basically it are two different things and two different techniques, one does not replace the other one. It is as somebody mentioned earlier in this threat, it’s just another tool in the bag. I am not looking for an easier way to ski. I am happy and fine the way it goes now.

 

In the old days we didn't have a type of ski for every different type of snow and I surely didn't have the money to buy a set for each application. We had one pair of skis and that would have to do it, whatever the condition. Today when we go on "Randonnées" we sometimes have younger people with nice and shiny powder snow skis.  As long as it is powder they are doing OK but if during the day we hit a north side with “neige du printemps” they are totally lost. I take out my one pair I am sure I will be fine whatever hits me during the day.

 

Anyway I am quite happy with the setup that I have now. At the end of the day recreational skiing is about having fun, and I am having fun on my straights. I can also have fun on carves as much as I can have fun on taking out a monoski. But to me they are all just different things.  All fun.

 

 

PS: but for my daily take out I still prefer straights. :duel:

:)

post #33 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post
 

I'm sorry LizzyVL, but some of the things you say are myths. 

 

First, difference between shop race skis and WC skis:
Yes, they are not the same, better base and better woods/glue combo
No, they are not "custom". 99% of WC skiers will get the best skis their brand made but it's the same model for everybody, 1% of them will get different custom made materials (Ligety has different boots, etc.)
WC skis will be faster and might be either stiffer or softer, but in general race skis (even the shop ones) are well above good for the recreational advanced skier.

 

Not entirely true that 99% of WC'ers ski on the same skis as us. It depends on the manufacturer. I can tell you from my experience with Nordica that there are at least 3 different 165cm "WC" slalom skis out there for any given model year, each with a different flex and flex pattern. One season I had two pairs with completely different flexes (and that didn't last long at all). The variation is even greater with GS skis.

post #34 of 50

You'd probably agree though that any race room gs ski would be stable no?

I think Lizzyvl is defining stable a little differently.

Whatever way, he likes skiing on straight skis and nothing's going to change that for now.

 

Lizzy, too bad you're in Belgium. I have a pair of 198 Volkl P40f1 race stock skis. Full laminate. Undrilled, never skied. About 2000 or '01 vintage. They're shaped, but not a whole lot. Probably around 35 meters, but too narrow underfoot for current spec. You'd like em. They're beefy.

post #35 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

You'd probably agree though that any race room gs ski would be stable no?
I think Lizzyvl is defining stable a little differently.
Whatever way, he likes skiing on straight skis and nothing's going to change that for now.

Lizzy, too bad you're in Belgium. I have a pair of 198 Volkl P40f1 race stock skis. Full laminate. Undrilled, never skied. About 2000 or '01 vintage. They're shaped, but not a whole lot. Probably around 35 meters, but too narrow underfoot for current spec. You'd like em. They're beefy.

More stable than any rec skier would ever need.
post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rise To The Top View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

 
I'm sorry LizzyVL, but some of the things you say are myths. 

First, difference between shop race skis and WC skis:

Yes, they are not the same, better base and better woods/glue combo

No, they are not "custom". 99% of WC skiers will get the best skis their brand made but it's the same model for everybody, 1% of them will get different custom made materials (Ligety has different boots, etc.)

WC skis will be faster and might be either stiffer or softer, but in general race skis (even the shop ones) are well above good for the recreational advanced skier.

Not entirely true that 99% of WC'ers ski on the same skis as us. It depends on the manufacturer. I can tell you from my experience with Nordica that there are at least 3 different 165cm "WC" slalom skis out there for any given model year, each with a different flex and flex pattern. One season I had two pairs with completely different flexes (and that didn't last long at all). The variation is even greater with GS skis.
It's not what I meant, I was trying to say that manufactures don't make skiers specific skis but for those 1-2 superstars. The rest pick the best ones from the "standard" batch
post #37 of 50

@LizzyVL,

you may be interested in this thread and in wedeling.

 

Quote:

Perfect Wedeln, by Ott Gangl! 2/9/2002

 
Originally Posted by Bob Barnes View Post
 

Here he is--Ott Gangl demonstrating the classic technique of Wedeln, a couple weeks ago at Copper Mountain--and also demonstrating that great technique is timeless--and that the man can definitely still turn 'em!

 


Way to go, Ott--Sigi would be impressed!



Best regards,
Bob Barnes


Edited by Bob Barnes - 3/22/2009 at 04:26 pm
post #38 of 50

I plan to chirp in soon with some feedback soon. I'm making the switch this year from 195 cm Volkl p19's to brand spanking new 184 cm Volkl Mantras. Old ski folk will recall the P19s came out shortly after the P9 and P10s. These twenty year old antiques handle beautifully at mach speed and I have yet to find a skier that can outrun me with their lamentable modern carvers. I love skiing with skis together in bumps and putting them on edge at suicidal speeds (ex-racer too). I can even keep them from diving in powder because that's how I learned to ski powder, on freaking race skis. It was sink or swim back then. I chose the Mantras because I heard they were fun and stable, and there is nothing I hate more than a flappy ski that tosses me around when I hit high arcing turns in the chop. People would laugh depreciatingly at my old P19s on the chairlift but I alone knew their true worth . Anyhow, I am crossing my fingers and remaining optimistic that the transition to shaped auto turning will be smooth or I may put myself back on those P19s. My style, like yours LizzyVL, may be compromised by updating my gear. I have tried shaped skis and they turn themselves effortlessly so I don't know how people could find them really challenging to master. I believe they are designed to make skiing less of a chore. I tend to agree with your statement that they are slower, especially on a straightaway. Picking one ski is a great problem today to strike a balance between nimbleness, dampness, stability, rebound feel. let alone considering widths or side cuts. Going with what you know may be a good solution for you. Why mess with a good thing? That was my Mantra until now.

post #39 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
 

@LizzyVL,

you may be interested in this thread and in wedeling.

 

There is a lot of French style in this. It's not the way I ski. I am really Swiss. In your example the booths stay a few centimeters apart and stay relatively level to each other.

The way I ski my booths are most of the time one behind the other. This way your skis are closer together. Depending on the steepness of the terrain there can be a difference of more than 30 centimeters (1 foot) between the tip of one ski and the other. It is very effective for mogul skiing. It gives you an enormous control over your “contrevirage” and subsequently the speed in your turn.

Below a little video.  It’s really bad quality and the slope is almost flat but it shows the style.  It’s all I could find for now. 

 

post #40 of 50
How about Stein Eriksen later in life? Here's 1996 in a lesson with "Bob".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uqJMX1UEpk&feature=youtube_gdata_player
post #41 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

How about Stein Eriksen later in life? Here's 1996 in a lesson with "Bob".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uqJMX1UEpk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Yes, that comes from the same roots but is an older style. The seating position is very pronounced, the body leans forwards and the turns are really "worked". If you look in the video, I stand straighter on my skis and the turn is initiated at the level of the knees and feet. The hips follow and the upper body stays relatively straight.  The difference between the left and the right ski tips is more pronounced.

post #42 of 50
I used to ski like that a long time ago.
post #43 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
 

You'd probably agree though that any race room gs ski would be stable no?

I think Lizzyvl is defining stable a little differently.

Whatever way, he likes skiing on straight skis and nothing's going to change that for now.

 

Lizzy, too bad you're in Belgium. I have a pair of 198 Volkl P40f1 race stock skis. Full laminate. Undrilled, never skied. About 2000 or '01 vintage. They're shaped, but not a whole lot. Probably around 35 meters, but too narrow underfoot for current spec. You'd like em. They're beefy.

Hi Tog,

Yes they have been recommended to me before on this forum.  i have looked but I can't get hold of them. Do you sell your P40F1's? If so let me know what you ask for them and where you're from.  I'll ask a carrier what it would cost to pick them up.  Last year I bought P10 RS supers from the UK. Shipping was more than the cost of the skis :cool

Since every year it becomes harder to get hold of skis like this I figure now is the time to get the stock that will last until I walk off to the next life ;)

post #44 of 50

Still have the P40's though there have been a lot of grumblings to clear them out recently. I think one ski still has the wrapper on it but I haven't looked in awhile. The other I took off at the time because It's tough to buy something and not touch it. I was planning at the time to use them for racing masters superg or downhill but other things got in the way.

 

One of the reasons I never mounted them was I needed to put a plate on them then bindings. Also, there was a knee operation in there which delayed everything. I was skiing on the consumer P40's in 193cm and had a boot out at speed which is not fun. I went from those to 170cm slalom skis.

It's unlikely you'd need a plate since you ski with your feet close together you'd have that issue. Newer bindings also can have more lift built in. Shouldn't be a problem.

I'd sell them for $40 including wrapping and boxing them. In terms of shipping, I can drop them off presumably at a shippers.

 

If you want the 193cm P40 consumer version you can have them for free. They have Marker turntable racing bindings on them. Might be the last model of those they made. I think I got them cheap because they were discontinuing them.

post #45 of 50
Thread Starter 

So, this should keep me going for awhile.

James, thanks again. I have got some S747 equipe for the P40F1's. They haven't been used and are well maintant but they are of course very old so I am also considering to get some new ones. What is your guys opion?

 

post #46 of 50
I have a pair of 203 P30's in good condition; I may even ski on them some time. I just got a pair of 185 Volkl SpeedWall Gs, they are so stable at high speeds and I can make them turn short turns without much difficulty, I like them better than the P30's. They do how ever want you to ski modern technique.
post #47 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizzyVL View Post

So, this should keep me going for awhile.
James, thanks again. I have got some S747 equipe for the P40F1's. They haven't been used and are well maintant but they are of course very old so I am also considering to get some new ones. What is your guys opion?


Sweet collection! I loved the P10 slalom in its day e en tho I only skied it a couple times. Had a fantastic tail that would launch u into the next turn if wanted.
As for the bindings.., maybe ask on the Retro thread. Here in the States shops will not work on bindings of not on the indemnified list. Over 10yrs old would def be out I believe.
I guess I would look for a binding that's lightly used or new old stock of a few years. Could be quite inexpensive.
Then there's where to mount? Volkl generally did front of toe to the line of I recall at that time.
Maybe measure the contact running surface, find the center, and see how Volkls mark would coincide with your ball of foot. -you'd have to find that on your boot.
That's a bof/center of running surface mount.
Maybe someone has an opinion on the 198 P40's on the Retro thread.

From the looks of your current ski mounts and your skiing vid, the mounts are supporting your style of working the tails. Going more forward would change things perhaps. If you wanted to go to a more fore/ modern or racing technique - even for straight ski era, I'd prob recommend going fore.
You might be able to find an old ess var or atomic binding that allowed fore/aft adjustments. Or mount the Tyrolia rail system. I'd ask the binding guys though. In general, they hang in the retro forum.
post #48 of 50

My 193 P40's had S900's, which I wouldn't hesitate to use now.  198 would have been a lot of ski, but manageable.

post #49 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHREDHEAD View Post
 

My 193 P40's had S900's, which I wouldn't hesitate to use now.  198 would have been a lot of ski, but manageable.

I'd ski a worm heel 900, not sure about the tab heel ones. 900's are going on 15+ years old. 

post #50 of 50
I agree .I have had the exact same Volkls including g4, rentigers, and vertigos. Thé p9 210 and 203 were my favorotes for that time. I also ski the Austrian style as you can see by my avatar but my feet are just a little wider. I find it very powerful for carving. I am 66 now and last year I bought the kendo in a 177. Just came back from Telluride where I was able to push it as hard and fast as it would go in high speed groomers and it was a rock solid speed machine just like all the Volkls I have owned. I just bought the tigershark 10 ft as I am looking for more carving and speed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by LizzyVL View Post

 
So after a couple of years of trying and taking lessons, as advised, I still miss straight skis. Sure carving is fun and once I had the technique down I could do pretty much what I did on straights.  Although whichever ski I tried the same stability at higher speeds could not be found.  I guess they simply don’t make ski that stiff anymore.  As mentioned before by some, carving is just another tool. Now that I dominate it I am not sure I missed very much.  I am sure carvings are here to stay they are more accessible then straights.  Too bad straights have been abandoned entirely.  I believe a beautiful and very stylish technique and way of skiing is equally thrown in the bin as it is simply not possible to ski that way on carves.   I certainly don’t have an adversity against carves, don’t get me wrong.  I am just sad that there seems to be no interest to keep the old technique alive. 

I guess there always needs to be an odd one in the flock, so it might as well be me. So as long as I can (read: as long as I can find the ski’s and as long as my bones will let me) I’ll try to keep the old spirit alive.  Maybe I should start a thread “going straight”.smile.gif


To start off, I just bought me some Volkl P10 rs super’s (205) on ebayyahoo.gif
.  Can’t wait to get them into the snow. 

 


I'm sorry, and please don't take it personally, but I find it really hard that you can'f find stable skis, the new ones are too soft, and you can't ski old school. I think the real issue here is part mental part technique.

Today's skis are stable, come in all sort of stiffness, and can be very versatile. 

Granted a SL ski will wiggle at speed but that's because it's not what is supposed to do.

Any high performance/front side ski will be plenty good up to +50mph even if they are only 170s. If that is too short or too slow for you, a GS race ski will take you close to 70mph in control. I doubt you need to ski faster than that.

But just in case you could always go for some SG boards.

Point being there are A LOT of choices out there, some brands add bars to stiffen up skis even more (Blizzard/Nordica, Atomic/Salomon for example) if those are good for racers and expert skiers all over the world I'm sure they'll work for you too.


Don't stay stuck in the old days, the new technology really changed skiing for the better, all you have to do is commit. And yes! you can still make it look good and classy cruising down the hill.
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