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Transitioning from straight skis to shaped?

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Until two seasons ago, I was skiing on Kastle straight skis (200 cm). I've developed years of technique that has allowed me to ski most of the mountain. I would pressure the tails of my skis at the finish of a turn for a delightful pop that would transition me into my next turn. Now I'm skiing 172 cm Dynastar Legend 4800's and my technique no longer works. If I pressure the tail at the end of my turn, it throws me off balance and I skid my turn. I'm still getting used to the feel of a shaped ski. Obviously I have to unlearn 18 years of skiing on straight skis. Any pointers on how I can do this?
post #2 of 17
Buy skis with a stiffer tail.
post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
Buy skis with a stiffer tail.
I demo'ed a pair of Volks. Too stiff. I like the Dynastars. Besides your suggestion attempts to fix a technique problem with hardware.
post #4 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddah Bar View Post
I demo'ed a pair of Volks. Too stiff. I like the Dynastars. Besides your suggestion attempts to fix a technique problem with hardware.
This book has a lot of exercises and explanation on how to learn to carve the whole turn on shaped skis:

Breakthrough on the New Skis. Lito Tejededa-Fkores

http://www.amazon.com/Breakthrough-N...9909119&sr=1-1
post #5 of 17
You do not have a technique problem, at least as far as you have described it. It is great fun to "pop off of the tails" on lots of modern skis, my Fischer WC SCs for instance. It's just not something you can do on a noodle. You should be able to find a happy medium. RX8 maybe? Dynastar 8000?

That being said, learning how to ski the new skis depends a lot on how you skied the old skis. If you concentrate on tipping the skis up on edge and riding those edges around the turn, tipping more to turn tighter, you should be ok. Suddenly relaxing the old outside new inside leg is a great way to transition between turns on the new skis; it gets them onto the new edges quickly and feels good. (there was no law against skiing this way on the old skis either, you just had to be going pretty fast)

Edit it was about three years ago that I finally bit the bullet and got some new-fangled skis. I still keep my old 208 Kästles around for high speed fun (they're SGs).
post #6 of 17
double post deleted
post #7 of 17
Hi Buddah Bar

Some goals that will help you on the new skis.

Try to get centered over the ski. Find a point on the bottom of your feet to focus on like the middle of the foot. Stand tall and feel the tongue of the boot on the shin. Keep the hips over your ankle and don’t let it drop. Move across the skis laterally and slightly forward to start your new turn. While the turn develops, turn your legs. This will increase the edge angle and the skis will start to carve a bit. If you would like a higher edge angle then incline the inside hip and tip the ankles while leaving the shoulders level. This info is for a larger turn but that’s a good place to start. Try this and get back to us.----Wigs
post #8 of 17

Shameless Tease

Hi Buddah,

There's an article in the supporters section that was written just for people in your predicament. Ahh, the benefits of being a supporter. If you're not ready to become a supporter, then PM me for a link to the free version of the article.
post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 
I've also noticed that I have the tendency to "muscle" my skis around because my old Kastles required significant effort to turn them. Also I noticed that I do a fair amount of hip swiveling to rotate the ski through the turn.
post #10 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddah Bar View Post
I've also noticed that I have the tendency to "muscle" my skis around because my old Kastles required significant effort to turn them. Also I noticed that I do a fair amount of hip swiveling to rotate the ski through the turn.
Now that's a software problem. Stop doing that!

All you have to do is tip the ski and apply some pressure to the edge. No muscling required. I didn't muscle my old Kästles because I didn't have enough muscle, so I had to use persuasion. I just put a little weight forward to bend the tips and tipped them, moving my weight back as the edge drew me into the turn. Not that much different from what I do on the modern skis, just a matter of degree in terms of how close to centered fore and aft I am and I can carve a lot slower with the new skis.
post #11 of 17
Thread Starter 
Mods:

Please move this thread to the Ski Technique & Analysis forum. Thanks.
post #12 of 17
You need to change your mindest from making your skis turn to allowing your skis to turn you. Accurate edging, pressure and rotary create scenarios where the ski takes you where you want to go.
post #13 of 17
It's sort of like they added power steering to your skis and took away some length. The strong edge set transition is still doable but as you've discovered the skis react differently to such a strong input. Be more subtle and progressive and they will give you a smoother outcome.
You also need to know that the shorter and wider tails make that tail edge check move riskier in that the tails failure to release could blow out your ACL.
So even though it sounds like a commercial, I would suggest going out and skiing with a good coach. It's the fastest way to discover how to adapt your technique and get the best performance out of your new skis.
post #14 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post
So even though it sounds like a commercial, I would suggest going out and skiing with a good coach. It's the fastest way to discover how to adapt your technique and get the best performance out of your new skis.
My thoughts exactly. I just need to find the right ski school.

Thanks for the tip on riding the tail and the risk of ACL tear.
post #15 of 17
buddah,

You'll get there. There are many places to look for help on how to transition from the old skis to new ones. Even the WC guys get into trouble sometimes by getting onto the tails of their new skis too much. The new skis are SOO powerful and yet so short. New skis are almost like having bionic limbs compared to the old ones, but on the other hand they are perhaps less forgiving if you ski on them wrongly.

I suspect that there are many finer points that you will be working on for years to change old habits. Most ski programs know about the new ski technology and will get you headed in the right direction. Its unlikely that you are going to solve all of your problems with a single ski lesson. I prefer race oriented camps for this kind of thing.

Lastly, if you provide us with some video, there are people on this forum that can probably help you a LOT.
post #16 of 17
Buddah -
I was in the same situation as you. It was a multi-year process to make the changeover. Old habits die hard. But you'll get there.

For me it helped to go cold turkey on the old habits. I went one season trying no to tail push or pivot at all. After you've beat those habits into submission, you can let some rotary back in as a choice rather than a habit.

External feedback (in-person lessons or Epicski video MA) is key. I went through a "false summit" where I thought I had it but I didn't really.
post #17 of 17

204cm PRE-SP to 172cm DL 4800

I had learned to roll the skis into the next turn on the 204s, still being able to do 'other' types of turns as required. Found no problem with the new shaped, which I demo'd many of. The 4800s being the most finess/ silky smooth of all. I'm a light weight and found the 8000s to be too much. Causing me to back seat, even in the 172 strength. . I still like to ski with my striaght 204s if for no other reason than they MAKE me ski properly, and are an excellent teacher,, and fun and fast. . .
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