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sore thighs - Page 2

post #31 of 57
I really think this is a technique issue and NOT gear or something else. If you are in strong ski position with your hips forward and...knees slightly bent...your skeleton absorbs the weight and your skis do the heavy lifting of turning the skis and NOT your quads. Even as much as letting your hips "sink" in the turn will really make you tired. Focus on staying forward and over your skis and this should get better.
post #32 of 57
By the 3rd day of skiing I was able to walk the next day. I also noticed as I age that my technique must compensate for my lack of endurance.
post #33 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbakersnow View Post
I guess, if true, I take my hat offto you, but I call bullshit!
Yes, becuase I love to come onto these forums and lie about my experiences.

Trust me, IMHO, compared to other endurance activities, skiing is pretty benign. And the thing is, I'm not even that active. I almost never exercise. So when I try to run more than a mile, I literally feel like I'm about to die. But I can ski multiple runs just fine. No matter how bad you feel at the bottom of the lift, you always have the entire lift ride to recover. Not so when you're playing basketball or running. My biggest measure is whether you have ever thrown up after prolonged activity. I, personally, can say that I have never thrown up (or felt like throwing up) after skiing. That is not true of some other sports I have participated in....
post #34 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by locknload View Post
I really think this is a technique issue and NOT gear or something else. If you are in strong ski position with your hips forward and...knees slightly bent...your skeleton absorbs the weight and your skis do the heavy lifting of turning the skis and NOT your quads. Even as much as letting your hips "sink" in the turn will really make you tired. Focus on staying forward and over your skis and this should get better.
actually, if your bindings have too much ramp, the only way to stay in balance is by leaning back.

One way to tell is if your thighs hurt simply from standing in the lift line. If that's true, then it's probably not a technique issue, unless you enjoy standing in line, while in the back seat....
post #35 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzinwin View Post
Trust me, IMHO, compared to other endurance activities, skiing is pretty benign
The term "skiing" can mean radically different things to many people - even when limited to strictly lift-served. It can describe anything from cruising groomers directly to and from the lift (or lunch) to busting your ass hiking from the top of the lift, blasting non-stop for thousands of verticle feet and then busting ass to get back to the lift. For sure, the former requires minimal effort, but I've felt completely worked from doing the latter many many times.
post #36 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzinwin View Post
Trust me, IMHO, compared to other endurance activities, skiing is pretty benign. And the thing is, I'm not even that active. I almost never exercise. So when I try to run more than a mile, I literally feel like I'm about to die...

But you claim "but I do ski aggressively".

Ummmm...... your definition of aggressive skiing might differ from some of ours.
post #37 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by locknload View Post
I really think this is a technique issue and NOT gear or something else. If you are in strong ski position with your hips forward and...knees slightly bent...your skeleton absorbs the weight and your skis do the heavy lifting of turning the skis and NOT your quads. Even as much as letting your hips "sink" in the turn will really make you tired. Focus on staying forward and over your skis and this should get better.
post #38 of 57
[quote=mrzinwin;1021757]Trust me, IMHO, compared to other endurance activities, skiing is pretty benign. quote]

Endurance activities are benign as a whole anyhow.
Excessive training in the oxidative pathway is not the way to train for anything other than Long Slow Duration activities,not for sports.
Someone mentioned bike riding. If thats all your doing ,you are not fit. Don't take this the wrong way.I'm just saying that there is no variation. Constantly Varied is what you need. You also need to spend the lions share of your training in the PC & Glycolytic pathways(anaerobic).
Aerobic = low power ,muscle wasting
Anaerobic= high power ,muscle building


Also ,"aggressively" is a pretty subjective term
post #39 of 57

sore legs

I used to get sore thighs too,until last week when I finally got some good advice from an instructor.I skiied all day every day for a week in France in lots of snow with very little pain at all.The advice I got was to put my weight further forward, a tip to help with that is keep your poles in your peripheral vision at all times.Also apparently i was "putting the brakes on" so i learned to control my speed by trying to ski better .By that i mean taking a critical look at my technique which was pretty rusty.Trust the skis to carve ,don't rush it.I know it all sounds pretty basic but works at every level.If my legs began to ache it was because I was slipping back into my old ways, I could feel the difference straight away .Towards the end of the week I was not aching at all.I am not suggesting you are like me but hope this helps.It is not always our skis ,boots etc. at fault but habits we find hard to break!
post #40 of 57
[quote=loboskis;1021783]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzinwin View Post
Someone mentioned bike riding. If thats all your doing ,you are not fit. Don't take this the wrong way.I'm just saying that there is no variation. Constantly Varied is what you need.
Anaerobic= high power ,muscle building

So...there is no such thing as variation in cycling? Or anaerobic cycling? Take a look at a track riders legs and tell me they didn't grow some muscles.

Guys like Greg Lemond, Levi Leipheimer, Jean Claude Killy, Roland Columbin, all excelled at both sports. All had really strong legs.

You must bike the way the mrzinwin skis.
post #41 of 57
[quote=newfydog;1021788]
Quote:
Originally Posted by loboskis View Post


So...there is no such thing as variation in cycling? Or anaerobic cycling? Take a look at a track riders legs and tell me they didn't grow some muscles.

Guys like Greg Lemond, Levi Leipheimer, Jean Claude Killy, Roland Columbin, all excelled at both sports. All had really strong legs.

You must bike the way the mrzinwin skis.
Still a single modality.You are specializing .Specializing is for insects.
The guys you mention are Elite Athletes,not common folk.
Just biking does not address true strength, but more muscular endurance.
post #42 of 57
[quote=loboskis;1021791]
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog View Post
Still a single modality.You are specializing .Specializing is for insects.
The guys you mention are Elite Athletes,not common folk.
Just biking does not address true strength, but more muscular endurance.

First, I agree with you that cycling does not provide the negative and impact type action. I was the one who said running down hill was much better than biking for getting ready to ski.

But...anyone who thinks biking just builds endurance, not muscle and power, doesn't know much about biking. Don't look at the climbing specialists... check out the sprinters.

As far as crossover examples, I could name common folk who have built leg power cycling but you might not recognize the names. Elite athletes are humans too.
post #43 of 57
[quote=newfydog;1021797]
Quote:
Originally Posted by loboskis View Post



But...anyone who thinks biking just builds endurance, not muscle and power, doesn't know much about biking. Don't look at the climbing specialists... check out the sprinters.

As far as crossover examples, I could name common folk who have built leg power cycling but you might not recognize the names. Elite athletes are humans too.
Sprinters,Now your tailking
And you right I was thinking more towards the climbers.
But to be truly fit you need constant variation of training stimulus.
Sprinters are working mostly anaerobically which as i said before is where you want to be. Working at high intensity,anaerobicly also trains the oxidative pathway as well.
And I have to disagree,elite athletes are freaks of nature,possibly aliens
post #44 of 57
I think we're on two different wavelengths here. I'm talking about skiing from the perspective of the average recreational skier. You're talking about competetive levels, perhaps at the world cup or such. I think that if you take any sport and elevate it to the elite levels, you're going to see levels of stress that recreational participants never get to experience. Hell, even poker, played at the most elite levels, is pretty damn stressful.

But if we're talking competitive athletes, we need to compare apples to apples. Which is more strenuous--competing in a ski race or playing in an NFL game? Compared to other sports, skiing is still relatively relaxed.
post #45 of 57
Skiing is as easy or as hard as you want to make it.

It's like swimming. You got some folk that look like whales, slowly floating up and down the lanes in the pool barely flapping their flippers, and you got other folk that look like olympic atheletes racing up and down the lanes putting in maximum effort. Then you have me - putting in maximum effort barely moving across the lake as my daughter swims circles around me.

I can ski a small hill and make 2 lazy 0.5 g turns on sg skis per run or I can make a dozen 3 g turns. You can make it very strenuous, or you can make it not too strenuous. Maybe it's not as strenuous as fighting, but then again not much is.
post #46 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzinwin View Post
I think we're on two different wavelengths here. I'm talking about skiing from the perspective of the average recreational skier. You're talking about competetive levels,

But if we're talking competitive athletes, we need to compare apples to apples. Which is more strenuous--competing in a ski race or playing in an NFL game? Compared to other sports, skiing is still relatively relaxed.

Nope. I'm talking about both. On a recreational level, a 54 year old multi sport guy like me finds skiing is a real workout, and leaves me pretty darn sore. My technique is not "improper", neither is my gear.

On the elite level, well, I wouldn't know how to compare it to the NFL, but I know Bode Miller beat a slew of NFL athletes in the Superstar competition. I doubt many football players would call this "pretty relaxed":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbqTxlHR2P4
post #47 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by locknload View Post
I really think this is a technique issue and NOT gear or something else. If you are in strong ski position with your hips forward and...knees slightly bent...your skeleton absorbs the weight and your skis do the heavy lifting of turning the skis and NOT your quads. Even as much as letting your hips "sink" in the turn will really make you tired. Focus on staying forward and over your skis and this should get better.
I have had this problem, sore thigh muscles, in a serious way, in the past. So sore, that back to back ski days were out of the question.

I do think that technique plays a part in my fatigue, which includes severe charlie horses and "tieing up" to the point of not being able to get down the hill. But equipment adds to the problem, forcing me to use more muscle than bone to get the job done.

This season has been different. I have stated in the best shape that I have been in for years. Even when my technique is flawed, my legs can take more abuse. But poor technique can really wear you down.
post #48 of 57
Unless you're doing some pretty crazy and pretty specific pre-season training, I don't think it's unreasonable to be sore after the first day. Even for someone who's very much in shape.

I also think it's wrong to see either skiing or cycling as something that only addresses one kind of fitness. While it's true that both select very strongly for certain, differing types, sprinting and some kinds of hills, especially off-road, involve a lot of anaerobic strength and can require exerting a lot of force on each pedal stroke and I know that my heart rate tends to drift upwards when I ski moguls; I refuse to believe that there's anyone who can stay at their resting rate for very long in that type of terrain.

All that being said, if my quads are sore I usually look at my fore-aft positioning over my skis. It's usually because I'm getting lazy or inattentive and drifting into the back seat.
post #49 of 57
AHHH somtimes I get a kick outta what people put in here...Oh Merry X-MASS all BTW
When I ski hard my legs burn when I ski my age they don't
Go figure I gotta agree with newfydog on this one.
See ya on the hills, I'm the old guy trying to ski like the young guy and looking stiff the next day !
post #50 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzinwin View Post
there's normal soreness from the activity of skiing (which isn't really all that demanding an activity, if you are using proper technique) and there's soreness so bad that after a few runs, you have to stop because you are afriad of tearing your quads in two.

With the later, there's probably something wrong with your setup.
I really think you should follow me down a few runs and then tell me how benign you believe the sport to be. I'm not sure how you ski, but if you let your skis take you for a ride, this might be true (though, you will still be using all the largest muscles in your body just to stay balanced and getting a good calorie burn), but I'm sure if you come with me and take your skis for a ride, you won't be feeling so benign anymore. How many turns do you make in that mogul glade run?
post #51 of 57
I have the sore thigh issue as well but it's hard for me to isolate the cause. However, I do find that technique, especially on steeps, has a huge effect. If I'm not paying attention I will shift weight slightly back, lose pressure on the boot cuff, and tense my quads to dig in and control speed. It helps me to overexaggerate pole plants far ahead to keep me forward and to really bend my knee into the turn initiation.

That said, what does "hips forward" mean? if I thrust my hips/pelvis forward I will definitely be off balance?

In any event, if you are balanced, your knees will be bent to some degree the entire time you ski. That's not something your thighs need to deal with in any everyday activity.
post #52 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by aschick View Post
That said, what does "hips forward" mean? if I thrust my hips/pelvis forward I will definitely be off balance?
The terminology is usually used to work with those that are bending at the waist to get forward which causes hips and butt to be way back instead of moving their entire body forward.
post #53 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by COSkiGirl View Post
The terminology is usually used to work with those that are bending at the waist to get forward which causes hips and butt to be way back instead of moving their entire body forward.
And how does one do this without bending knees? I'm just not getting the picture of how one skis with knees at only a slight bend. when I flex forward to pressure the boot I bend my knee. Now, if your boot is stiff you won't get more forward ankle flex and and you will get pushed back. To compensate you will need to bend forward a la racing stance. In any event, as you bend your knee forward you are putting more stress on your thighs.
post #54 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by lady_Salina View Post
I really think you should follow me down a few runs and then tell me how benign you believe the sport to be. I'm not sure how you ski, but if you let your skis take you for a ride, this might be true (though, you will still be using all the largest muscles in your body just to stay balanced and getting a good calorie burn), but I'm sure if you come with me and take your skis for a ride, you won't be feeling so benign anymore. How many turns do you make in that mogul glade run?

As I said--I ski aggressively, but for short bursts (I will take a rest whenever I start to feel tired--I will never go from top to bottom without stopping at least 3-4 times, often for minutes at a time).

My goal is not to train for a race, but rather to have an enjoyable day. I see skiing as a leisure activity, not as a sport. I think most skiers do. I once tried to ski with this guy who refused to stop for anything--I was definitely beat. But I would never ski like that on my own.

I see skiing, kinda like I see weight lifting--it can be as hard or as easy as you want. But unless your goal it to become a body builder, there's no reason to kill yourself.
post #55 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Boot View Post
See ya on the hills, I'm the old guy trying to ski like the young guy and looking stiff the next day !
Amen to that!
post #56 of 57
I think it's mostly technique, partly conditioning -- at least for me.

I find my first day out, I usually am sore because I am not in proper form. Just getting back in the saddle on day one, I am more defensive and not always centered like I should be and the result is a lot more work in the turns. Once balance comes back and I loosen up, things get much easier and I can usually ski the whole day without any serious isues or hangovers the next day.
post #57 of 57
I agree with the notion that you can ski as hard or as lazy as you want to, although some terrain or conditions will take more effort than other terrain types.

Personally, I enjoy some speed and I enjoy some g forces, and I enjoy moguls. Mix the 3 and I find I'm in the high energy output mode.

I can get down a bump field using less energy, but it isn't nearly as much fun.

Case in point: the afternoon of a powder day here on the east coast. The trail is mostly tracked out, and almost all the skiers have skied out all the troughs of the pre existing moguls. There is still fluffy snow, mostly unskiied on the tops and backs of the moguls. I still have a great time on that run, skiing across the troughs, absorbing the bump, and turning in the soft snow on the top/back side. When you do that, there is a huge difference in the drag on the skis between the slick troughs and the knee deep tops. You have to change your center of gravity/stance from more centered on the slick to more forward and more effort to resist the increased drag of the deep snow. Each time you hit the pile of soft snow your legs want to slow down and your body wants to keep going. It takes effort to push the legs forward as you hit the deep snow over and over. Then there's the effort it takes to absorb and extend on each bump, and the jarring slam you take sometimes when crossing the trough. When I do this, I'm breathing hard and the blood is pumping hard. It feels like sprinting up a staircase. But it's a blast, and I'm grinning ear to ear.

I've skiied all my life, and I have noticed that I really never get sore, not in the sense of the day after sore/stiff. Not even on the first day of the season. I get intense quad burn while skiing (if I ski hard), and as the day wears on my recharge ability fades, but I don't get any lingering soreness. Afterwards I just have this warm rubber legs feel.

When I first started running in High School, I did feel the day after, make that even several days after type soreness. My calves were like solid unyielding clumps, and I walked very stiffly. So it's not that I have any special physiology, it seems more like conditioning, and perhaps many years of conditioning. I have a ski buddy that competes in tri-athalons, and he remarks on my endurance. I don't think I could ever keep up with him in a tri, but for some reason I'm his equal or better on the slope. He thinks it's the years, and the ski intensity at a young age (that developed a lasting muscle mass?) combined.

I think we can agree that proper technique results in more efficient skiing, and less tiring skiing. The less thrashing around you do, the better. Howver, if you enjoy G forces in any fashion, you will have to pay the piper in expenditure. You simply cannot stay flexed in 3 G's and not exert more energy than at 1 G.
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