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Zipperline?

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
I have a question. What constitutes skiing the zipperline. Is it the line or the technique. What I mean is if you are skiing the line that water would take but not bashing the bumps competition style are you skiing zipperline?
post #2 of 21
Pierre, I don't see skiing the zipperline as the same path as water would flow down and around bumps. water may flow up the sides some but would always seek to flow around more than straight up and over. I view skiing the zipperline as being purely competition driven and created, and not the most efficient tactic for most skiers. Why do you ask?
post #3 of 21
Thread Starter 
Ric B competition bump skiers don't ski up and over they keep their center of mass over the trough where the water would flow and their skis bang back and forth near the tops of the bumps on each side.
Is anything between those bump tops considered skiing the zipper line or is the technique used by the comp skiers considered zipper line.
We always talk zipper line but I suspect that many people use different defintitions. Just want to know.
post #4 of 21
Yeah, you're right Pierre, I just didn't describe what I meant very well. Skis banging against the bump. I don't see competition bump to having any similarity to flowing water though. Water doesn't bang. [img]smile.gif[/img] As far as definition, I guess I'm the wrong one to ask. I never competed or wanted to. I spent a cupe of runs in the bumps in the 3bears yesterday with a fellow instructor who is competing this weekend. He's 34 now and he doesn't ski, everyday in the bumps the same way he competes. At least thats my observation. I'll ask when I see him on monday.

[ January 04, 2003, 07:50 AM: Message edited by: Ric B ]
post #5 of 21
Pierre,

When I read the title to this thread you started, my mind automatically pictured a skier following the fall-line down a mogul field at a high rate of speed - competition style .... Zipping down the hill, if you will. Simply my perception ...not right or wrong ...maybe the same or different than someone else.

Pierre: "What I mean is if you are skiing the line that water would take but not bashing the bumps competition style are you skiing zipperline?"

I would say that you are skiing the fall-line.

As I see the fall-line, it would be the path water or a ball would take IF the moguls weren't there. In saying that, I'm refering to the path of your head and shoulders.

As I think about your statement above, I wonder if your "water path" through the moguls is the path you envision your skis and feet taking?
post #6 of 21
Thread Starter 
Perhaps I used the water flow analogy wrong. I used it to denote down the fall line as opposed to skiing around each bump to the next line over.
My question I guess should be, is someone skiing zipper line if they are taking the fall line down the bumps without bashing so much or are they only skiing zipper line if they are bashing pro style?
post #7 of 21
For me, zipperline and bashing go together. That may not be how others view it. [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #8 of 21
Quote:
Originally posted by Pierre:
I have a question. What constitutes skiing the zipperline. Is it the line or the technique. What I mean is if you are skiing the line that water would take but not bashing the bumps competition style are you skiing zipperline?
i always envision splitting the seam (or zipper?)between two "columns" of bumps. basically, i think it just means a fall-line run with side-to-side "deflection", but no real "turns".

intersting question tho.
post #9 of 21
Zipperline to me means as straight down the fall line (with the upper body) as the bumps will allow. With enough skidding, it's an easier task than making rounder turns. If you can do good pivot slips, that is.
post #10 of 21
Thread Starter 
So milesb you are saying that zipperline refers to the line down the bumps and has little to do with technique? The pros do not skid at all. Your saying if you can ski this line without upset you are skiing zipperline? I could buy that.
I am not sure if some here are saying that you must ski the fall line run like the pros in order to be called zipperline skiing. If this is the case only a handful of skiers are capable of zipperline skiing. That would certainly exclude me even though I can decend straight down the fall line run. Am I reading the posts right? I guess I could buy that too.
There appears to be as much variation on definition as I thought.

[ January 04, 2003, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Pierre ]
post #11 of 21
My understanding of zipperline is the closest to fall line you can come through the bumps and it usually means some bashing.

The path over the bumps (make your own fall line) used to be called rooftopping and generally didn't include the amount of edgesetting a zipperliner would use. More absorb/pivot.
post #12 of 21
Pierre, yes. Hence the "line" in zipperline.
post #13 of 21
Pierre-
In this case I'm going to agree with Adema (yes- I'm agreeing!)
The zipper line as we always referred to it when judging on the pro mogul tour was as Adema described, skiing the "seam" (I like that term) between two sets of vertical bumps. To envisage a zipper just coming together or apart, that "seam" represented both the falline, and the path skied.

It was nothing more than an over-skied, grooved line which dominated/ dictated the path of the skier. And indeed, was the fastest way down the hill. (nearly straight)

Still fun to do , but there are certainly more civilized ways to ski bumps...

:
post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally posted by vail snopro:
Pierre-
In this case I'm going to agree with Adema (yes- I'm agreeing!)
holy crap! this date will live in infamy...
post #15 of 21
Thread Starter 
Adema
Quote:
i always envision splitting the seam (or zipper?)between two "columns" of bumps. basically, i think it just means a fall-line run with side-to-side "deflection", but no real "turns".
I'll buy this but if a skier slows down and pivots a bit more in this line between the two columns but still skis it, is that skier skiing the zipperline or is he not? He's skiing the line but turning a bit to control speed. If yes how far can this skier vary before he is no longer skiing zipperline?
These are not loaded questions. I am trying to get a definition by concensus that I can use.

[ January 05, 2003, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Pierre ]
post #16 of 21
Good question, Pierre! To me, "zipperline" is more a style of skiing than an actual line, although even here, it can be skied with varying degrees of smoothness. "Fall line" mogul skiing CAN involve the "zipperline," but it doesn't have to. Adema's description of "splitting the colums" with only slight deflection of the skis and no real turns--and not usually much speed control either--describes what I think of as "zipperline mogul skiing." And not all bumps can be skied "zipperline" either--it is easiest when the bumps are very regular, like the teeth of a zipper. Competition mogul runs are usually carefully hand-shaped these days--a trend that I detest!

Here's a rough animation I just put together in response to a suggestion in another thread. It illustrates (or tries to) quality, low-impact turns in large moguls, down the fall line. But to me, it does NOT illustrate "zipperline" skiing.



Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #17 of 21
Bob,

Where do you get these great little illustrations? Cool!----Wigs
post #18 of 21
Bob's animation body is going from side to side so I wouldn't call it zipperline.
Here's a solarized image of zipperline skiing:

http://www.smartmogul.com/camps/Camp.html

The body goes straight down the hill while the legs move underneath it is a style and a path.
Pierre, I believe you might be able to push our definition a bit if you don't go out of the "zipper" which would be going to the top of the bump. It might look like Bob's animation for huge bumps but I think you could call it skiing down the zipperline if you stayed in the space of between the two "halves of the zipper".
post #19 of 21
Thread Starter 
Tog:
Quote:
but I think you could call it skiing down the zipperline if you stayed in the space of between the two "halves of the zipper".
I can do that at a snails pace, would you still call it zipperline skiing?
post #20 of 21
My first answer is a definite no since "zipperline" skiing usually means at a fast pace. Skiing at a snails pace would not qualify but it's not as far off as I first thought. Afterall, how many people can look down a gnarly mogul field and actually ski the zipperline at snails pace? Probably not even a lot of the "zipperline" skiers! How many people "ski" the zipperline at a snails pace at an advanced level? Lots of people could hack their way down just like hacking their way down an expert trail, but that doesn't really count.

For most people, the "zipperline" is "Unsafe at Any Speed".

So if you develop a system to teach people to ski the "zipperline" at whatever speed they want at first it might be described as "skiing along the zipperline" or "down the zipperline". If enough people end up doing it, then we might have different types of "zipperline" skiing. The fast competition type, and the slower controlled speed type.

Or maybe you call it "fall line mogul skiing"

[ January 09, 2003, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: Tog ]
post #21 of 21
A zipperline is most evident in spring conditions after a group of training team mogul skiers have been practicing by all going down the same main line. Such a snow condition often tends to bring out the consistent nature of their turns versus midwinter when a lot of loose slough (here in the west) dominates. Just a mogul or two to the side, the bumps are often noticeably smaller in size and rut depth. Zipperline bump skiers don't use either the steep sides or the mound shoulders above the ruts as much as other bump skiers might. However as their speed increases, they tent to aim more towards the top of the mounds. They almost always contribute to digging out a deep hole where they whack their skis at. I tend to ski the more pleasant parts they don't, except when the shape of the oncoming bump looks like an obviously easy round turn. -dave

[ January 15, 2003, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: dave_SSS ]
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