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How to Question the Person Doing the Work?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
I have three three options to have new bindings mounted to new skis and would like to know which is the best scenario.

Here's the situation:

1 - I can mount them myself as I know I can get the bindings mounted where they need to be and have the know how to do so. I don't have experience with the new binding and could "wing it" by feel to get by on the slopes.

2 - There is a man at a recreation center (On a military base, because I'm active duty military) that looks and talks like he never skied a day his life. He's a rental expert and sells very little, if any, retail. He can fit a first timer for boots but nothing more in that aspect as I inquired about his fitting process already. He would do the work for very little, and maybe even nothing, however I don't like my first impression though it was very brief.

3 - Proceed Squaw Valley, Tahoe on my day trip and let the kid/mature adult perform the mounting and setting up of the bindings there and on the morning of?


I trust myself to mount the bindings correctly. I don't trust myself for setup. So I want to ask a few question to whomever does the work (If you guys think this is out of line, and the shop would be put off by myself asking, then I'll just trust their judgement and not ask).

So I would like ask these questions to the man/women working on MY equipment to test THIER knowledge and my faith in their shop. I would also like for you guys to add ANY QUESTIONS YOU ALL MIGHT THINK I SHOULD ask or not ask:

How do you set the forward pressure of the binding/boot?
-What checks are done to ensure it is correct?

Concerning DIN settings, does this affect forward pressure when adjusting?
-Do you check forward pressure first and then adjust the DIN, or DIN - FWD Press - Din checks in that order

DO you have a way of testing the DIN setting to ensure it releases at a proper tension?

How do you know where to mount an adjustable/railflex binding?
-Is there a preferred position on the ski for this type of binding?

So these are my questions for now. Some are simple and I know what the right answer should be. But, what answers should I expect that give me a good vibe about the person doing the work???? This might also help other folks not in the know-how, so they can test the person performing the work on their skis. Are they capable; one might ask???????

Much thanks for all with advice!!!!!

Kevin
post #2 of 18
You have not added an important question: If the mount is done wrong will you warranty the work and get a new pair of skis to replaced the pair mounted wrong? IE will you stand behind your work if you claim to know what you are doing?


Also ask have they invested in (obviously you do not as an individual) the tools - Release Calibers to test for the release settings etc. (Vermont Ski Safety is one of the better know out there)?
post #3 of 18
I would recommend finding/going to a ski shop to have the work done. Here are my reasons:

1. I am in the military and have seen some of the folks at the recreation centers on the bases I have been stationed at. Many of them, though not all of them, have little experience in what they are doing. The recreation rental center on the base will most likely not replace your skis should they screw them up...the most they may do is give you a pair of rental skis to replace your gear with but you would probably need to fight it out.

2. If you take your skis and bindings to Squaw to have them mounted the day you plan on skiing you may find that the shop won't/can't fit you in on that day due to workload. This could wreck your trip or part of it.

3. If you are comfortable mounting the bindings but not setting the DIN then take them to mounted to Squaw to have the DIN set and checked at the ski shop there, that is less labor intensive than having to drill, tap, and mount bindings.

Have fun at Squaw, I loved skiing there years ago.

-Z
post #4 of 18
I would ask:

"caffiene, THC, Alcohol... are you on more than two out of three right now?".
post #5 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
I would ask:

"caffiene, THC, Alcohol... are you on more than two out of three right now?".
What answer are you looking for??
post #6 of 18
Well, if it's morning then caffiene is expected... THC is par for the course in the ski industry. preferable to be just drinking coffee, but hey, i want someone working on my skis to be functioning in THEIR optimum state.

If it's evening then it could be coffee, an adult beverage is fine also, but THC + Alcohol might not be a good mix. Coffee + Alcohol... that's just kinda gross. So in the evening i guess I'm hoping the tech is just drinking OR smoking, not both.

... but i do my own tech work, and personally I stick to coffee in the morning and 'maybe' a beer at the very end of the day... but, that's just me, I guess I'm a little 'square'.
post #7 of 18
dumpy, Whiteroom is not an Irish coffee fan.

Oh the woe.
post #8 of 18
We've discussed this in a previous thread: how much to grease the wheel. If you want the work done fast, you're gonna have to give the shop monkey some beers (or something). But that could affect the quality of the work. Gotta play that one right...
post #9 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by prickly View Post
We've discussed this in a previous thread: how much to grease the wheel. If you want the work done fast, you're gonna have to give the shop monkey some beers (or something). But that could affect the quality of the work. Gotta play that one right...
I'm not sure that even works on a short term one morning stand basis.

Dropping by with home-brews whenever a new keg is in OTOH...
post #10 of 18
There must be a local ski shop near you. Have them do it.

I know your military, but think of your safety and the hospital expense if you do it wrong and get hurt, or hurt someone else when your ski goes flying down the hill.
post #11 of 18
Thread Starter 

Thanks guys

I went to the AF base ski shop and asked them some questions. They showed me how they mount the binding with the jig and also claimed they are a fully certified ski shop. I really just want to get involved with the process learn how it's done.

I guess I'll just go with on base rec center. The person I spoke to sounded competent, although the first guy I spoke with there didn't and that's why I'm still a little uneasy.

I didn't think about how busy the Tahoe mountain shops might be and that could be a long day of waiting at the slopes for my skis to get done.

Anyways, thanks for the info! However I still don't know how one adjusts forward pressure or how it's checked.

Kevin
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinVB View Post
Anyways, thanks for the info! However I still don't know how one adjusts forward pressure or how it's checked.

Kevin
You have for each of the brands of bindings a technical guide- get the one for your bindings (after the shop has done the work) and read it. The forward pressure is usually done via a screw and makes sure the boot engages fully into the toe as well as not so much that the boot will get stuck and not release in a fall. It is tested with the Vermont safety tools out there along with the din, etc.
A search for a specific brand of binding on Google will usually show up something like this link (Yes you could search these forums too- of course to get the same info):
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=50626
post #13 of 18
Kevin, it is difficult to describe the forward pressure setting process without knowing what manufacture/model of binding you have. The process is fairly simply but varies somewhat depending on the binding. Describing the process without knowing what is the specific gear in question may lead to describing a completely wrong process that will either leave you, at best, dumbfounded as the directions won't match up with your gear, or worse, with improperly set/unsafe and possibly damaged bindings.

Post your binding type or PM me with the info and your phone number and I will be happy to talk you through the process.

-Z
post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zohan View Post
Kevin, it is difficult to describe the forward pressure setting process without knowing what manufacture/model of binding you have. The process is fairly simply but varies somewhat depending on the binding. Describing the process without knowing what is the specific gear in question may lead to describing a completely wrong process that will either leave you, at best, dumbfounded as the directions won't match up with your gear, or worse, with improperly set/unsafe and possibly damaged bindings.

Post your binding type or PM me with the info and your phone number and I will be happy to talk you through the process.

-Z
Oh, I didn't know it varied from binding to binding. I have a pair of Tyrolia RFD14 07/08 and found a link to the tech manual for the binding. I do appreciate everyone's patience with me, I really want to learn and get into this type of thing for myself maybe sometime down the road.

I did read about this binding as I found a link to the tech manual. Seems pretty easy and is a two step process. Measure boot sole length, set binding for length with in a couple of mm and error on the longer side possibly. Then adjust the DIN for my height/weight/ skill, just have them tested for operation and it's a done deal...

I have read about some other bindings which involve in centering the toe and adjusting toe height and possibly heel height as well, but these seem easy.

Anyways, I'm still reading and learning, and I do like to generally know what I'm talking about when I enter a shop. You guys have been a great help and I will support this site in anyway I can.

Kevin
post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinVB View Post
However I still don't know how one adjusts forward pressure or how it's checked.

Kevin
Yet somehow you think you can mount the bindings on your own?

Is there something new out there I'm missing? Lots of new guys thinking they can mount their own gear, but don't know something as basic as checking forward pressure...
post #16 of 18
Even though I have skied for years, done some of my own tuning and waxing, know what to look for in the way of din settings (read the chart etc.), and read many a threads on ski forums about mounting your own bindings either with the proper template or jig or even free hand, I still do not want to do it myself. I also have read a few of the binding technical manuals and understand the concept but have no first hand experience in doing the adjustments (other than the din screw).

I value my knees and having a knowledgeable competent shop tech do it is the way I handle it. I have even paid $75 or $100 for one pair to get mounted (purchased the stuff on line, did not ask for a price when I dropped them off to get done). But that is much cheaper than having it done wrong, risking knee or some sort of broken leg and dealing with doctors, etc.
Most every reputatble shop carries insurance to cover them if it is determined that they screwed up and that is part of the fee and cost of them doing business.
post #17 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by axebiker View Post
Yet somehow you think you can mount the bindings on your own?

Is there something new out there I'm missing? Lots of new guys thinking they can mount their own gear, but don't know something as basic as checking forward pressure...
Yes, well I thought that adjusting forward pressure was a complex adjustment....It's not! I've learned that it's not really an adjustment, it's merely positioning the binding up for proper boot length (which is dependent on the binding).

I watched I guy set up a pair of rental skis. It's super easy!!!! In this case, with my bindings, the hardest part (which wouldn't be very hard for me), is to make the template and transcribe/apply the measurements to the ski.

I'm still not going to do this myself and will have a questionable shop do the work, but I will practice on old skis and see how it goes while I learn....

Thanks All!
post #18 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinVB View Post
Yes, well I thought that adjusting forward pressure was a complex adjustment....It's not! I've learned that it's not really an adjustment, it's merely positioning the binding up for proper boot length (which is dependent on the binding).

That's a little bit of an oversimplification, though it's certainly one way to look at it. The spacing of the bindings and boot sole length affects fwd pressure, but adjusting forward pressure is more of a requirement for proper binding function (retaining and releasing the boot). That little scale at the back of the binding is more of a force readout than it's a boot sole length readout. It just happens that force and displacement are proportional to each other (F=kx).

In reality, when you adjust the forward pressure, you are bringing the heel piece a little farther forward (about 3-5 mm) than it would be if the binding spacing perfectly matched the boot sole length. When you step into the binding, the heel piece is pushed back against a spring, which in turn provides the "forward pressure" that holds the boot against the binding's toe piece.

So there is a spring force generated by the 3-5 mm the heel piece moves back when you step in, and this is the forward pressure that you are setting / calibrating / etc when making that adjustment. Make sense?
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