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Let's Talk Avalanche.... - Page 2

post #31 of 55
There was a good article on going out on high danger days by Andrew Mclean. If you stay home and minimze your risk you really don't learn anything. It was in backcounrty or an older Coliour mag.
I'm taking guys at Tgr< nickleback as a diss and if there are so many mountaineer and avvy knowledgable people here please provide a link to that forum.
post #32 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
Imo the best place to start is with competant partners. ..... You can diss on TGR all you want but the avvy knowledge there is greater than all the edge bevel, ski anuglation tech knowledge here.
Both are big forums, with a mixture of true experts, yahoos waiting to be buried, and those who would rather discuss something else.

Your first statement would suggest you feel one would do well to find some competent partners rather than try to learn about it from an internet forum. Why then, do we need a "them vs us" pissing match?
post #33 of 55
Long term patrols tend to be Avy junkies or trauma junkies. If you want to hear about avy conditions, go out of your way to chat with the local avy junky patrol, maybe donate some money to their dog program. They get up early to blast, continuously monitor the snowpack and follow all the technical websites. On a good day, they have some time to hang out and chat a bit by mid-day, before the afternoon accidents kick in.

They will know all about the local sidecountry and back country conditions, and their concerns and observations will give you a good idea of what is important at the current time.
post #34 of 55
Some may find this DVD interesting. The video Fine Line is done quite well. Please note, this is not in any way shape or form a subsitute for an Avi course but it deals with a number very large slides. It also brings into perpective the avi dangers faced in the movies we all love to watch. This video is inexpensive and informative. It also gives a great example of why "poaching" is risky business.

http://www.rockymountainsherpas.com/

Everyone....be safe!
post #35 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
There was a good article on going out on high danger days by Andrew Mclean. If you stay home and minimze your risk you really don't learn anything. It was in backcounrty or an older Coliour mag.
I'm taking guys at Tgr< nickleback as a diss and if there are so many mountaineer and avvy knowledgable people here please provide a link to that forum.
Oh come on, it's a joke. Tell you the truth I find more helpful knowledge at tgr than I do here (I post on both). But the guys on tgr are not nearly as considerate or welcoming of new members. Listen fish you are probably a better skier than me and I can almost garuntee a more avalanche intelligent skier than me. I am in no way dissing on tgr as a whole, its just sometimes the harshness of the forums gets to me, because I am a JONG
post #36 of 55
Thanks for that link there Dumb Swede! I've posted a photo as a cool down run here...

post #37 of 55
A jong from Nebraski, say it ain't so.
post #38 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugaree View Post
Question.....Do avalanches have a memory??.....In other words when patrol blasts for avy control is it always the same area's??

What pitch (degree) of slope is most likely to slide??

Why doesn't East Coast area's have avalanche problems??

Educate us about avy's.....IMO, we need to know more.

I might add...So sorry to hear of the girl at Snowbird.
They do happen in the East. Back whebn I was a local, I witnessed a slide at Sugarloaf on the backside entrace to the snowfields back in '92. In fact a buddy lost a ski in it, we looked in the spring but never found it.
post #39 of 55
The more you learn about snow and layers bonding the more you'll realize how bizarre the stuff is.

There is no other medium like snow...

Just one rule- It all slides. (Actually, it is always sliding.)
post #40 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post
... snow ... layers bonding ...

... realize how bizarre ....

... no other medium like snow...

Just one rule...It all slides. (Actually, it is always sliding.)
changed things around there^^
New lyrics to Snow Patrol song?
Last line sounds like Pink Floyd
post #41 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
...I'm taking guys at Tgr< nickleback as a diss and if there are so many mountaineer and avvy knowledgable people here please provide a link to that forum.
That probably wasn't the most well thought-out thing you've written.
post #42 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
For sure that's a huge problem. A lot of times we abdicate responsibility and somehow think that the group is taking care of things. The little experience I've had in backcountry with NOLS I learned that. The person/people who are leading in dangerous terrain almost need to separate themselves from the group so they can pay attention to the surroundings and make decisions based on what they see and their intuition. Groups often get in the way of assesment and decision making until it's too late and they've wandered into an area that they wouldn't have in clear hindsight.

This is not some bizarre phenomenon that only happens in the backcountry. It happens all the time in regular life. God just last week it happened to me driving someone into nyc. I picked them up in the Bronx in an unfamiliar area. We got to the highway and we were having fun talking about stuff. I started to see signs of bad traffic but started thinking it'll be ok just going this route. Had I been alone I would've started looking for alternate routes. I remember passing one and thinking I probably should have taken that one. We kept talking though, and somehow my mind thinks everything will go fine - how can it not - and somehow because she lives here we must be going the right way. That last part is the most bizarre because she told me she always takes the bus and train and had no idea about the roads - yet in making decisions I ignored that completely.

Though that incident is really of no consequence, we were late, it illustrates a type of thinking process that can take over in groups. Even groups of two, or even when you're alone! It also can happen to very experienced people.
This is exactly right. Groups can be very stupid. The study of heuristics and group interactions goes well beyond the avalanche field. A smart backcountry skier can learn from other examples. I have been slowly gathering photos and other examples of snow metamorhism and avalanche release from the valley floor. If you know how to see it, all of the processes are happening in your yard and on your roof (provided you have snow there). Another thing to remember is your overall risk management. It can be said that Risk = Hazard x Consequenses. In other words if there is a high avalanche hazard, but you are in a place where the consequenses of triggering a slide are not that great, the Risk can still be low. You may be at a greater risk level when a small slide on a low hazard day takes you over a cliff or into a gully (terrain trap) where you become deeply burried. Or the trees that you hoped were anchors become a pulverizing machine as you slide through them at 50mph. Also depending on where you are injurys can become more significant as its hard for outside help to reach you. Even something relativly small can become life threating if you spend the night out and get cold or shocky.
post #43 of 55
Experience,Formulate,Input,Teamwork. Keep me alive in a jungle 40 yrs ago.
post #44 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post
That probably wasn't the most well thought-out thing you've written.
It happens



Probably not the most well thought out place to be at that time but damn it was interesting
newfyd I agree there are always a few snow safety wise trollers at any place and they usually freely give damn good input. I'm a poor skibum but always first to volunteer to get in the hole
post #45 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post


Very cool photo.

Good doggie!

[quote=skifishbum;1020178]



Is that somewhere on Timp?
post #46 of 55
Avalanche near Crested Butte kills man snowboarding:
from: http://cbavalanchecenter.org/page.cfm?pageid=12472
Quote:
Mike Bowen, 36, was in a fatal avalanche accident while snowboarding in the Crested Butte backcountry on Wednesday, Dec. 17, 2009
post #47 of 55
I've seen a some avalanches during winter on the east coast, and evidence of rock slides during warmer weather.
All of them were in the White Mountains, in areas where there are no commercial ski operations.
Mt Washington is one of them, and there was an avalanche fatality there some years ago. A climber, not a skier.
And aren't there avalanches on The Slides, at Whiteface? That's why that area is restricted to groups with experience and the right equipment, and even for them, it's not always open.
post #48 of 55
What an Avalanche looks like from the drivers seat.
http://www.tremblant-insider.com/avalanchepiau.mpeg
post #49 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
What an Avalanche looks like from the drivers seat.
http://www.tremblant-insider.com/avalanchepiau.mpeg
That is one *lucky* boy. "Oh pute!" indeed.
post #50 of 55
You should check out the video Tyrone posted. It's a film by Guido Perrini. Incredible footage in general and of a couple of avalanches, particularly at the end of the film. The guy survived because of the air bag system and prob. the helicopter.
This video is simply amazing
post #51 of 55
The actor Chris Allport was interviewed about the dangers of BC, for a magazine. He insisted he knew what he was doing.
He was subsequently killed by an avalanche at one of the areas near Bear Lake, southern CA.
His widow subsequently wrote a one-act play about being widowed in your 40s, and starting to date again. Funny, and heart breaking, at the same time.
post #52 of 55
From Jerry Roberts, RMP avalanche forecaster doing control work on Red Mountain Pass (between Silverton and Ironton) 2/5/08 (posted on previous thread):


























post #53 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post

A worthy read is Snowstruck. While not an instructional book per se, it frames a whole bunch of avy stuff in a pretty interesting (and personal) way.

 

I just finished reading this. Posted recently in the The Good Read Thread, but figured a bump here too couldn't be a bad thing. I've read a few books that deal with avalanches and snow science, but this one is written from the perspective of a couple in Alaska who did avalanche forecasting and management for a lot of operations that wanted to try and insure safety for their workers - utility companies, road crews, etc. Also many stories of search and rescue after avalanches, big and small. Incredible real life stuff, and sobering.

 

 

Snowstruck: In the Grip of Avalanches

post #54 of 55

Jill Fredstons other book "Rowing to Latitude is also very good.  It is about the epic trips she and her husband make near the Arctic Circle in customized rowboats.

post #55 of 55

Avalanche awareness article online. At least there's an attempt to get some basic info out to the masses...

 

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/outdoor-skills/survival/Enter-at-Your-Own-Risk.html

 

I do agree with one of the comments that info about avalanche classes should have been included.

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