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IPT Wide-Ride binding ramp angle question

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
Please forgive my lack of technical knowledge and terminology. I have about 6 days skiing this year on new Volkl AC50s with the new integrated IPT Wide-Ride binding. I seem to have to work (slightly) harder to stay forward and get that nice pressure on the ski-tips than I did in the past. I am told that the IPT Wide-Ride binding is "flatter" than the traditional Marker bindings of the past (by how much?). I am thinking of experimenting with a shim under my boot liner to increase the forward lean. I can't see any downside to trying this out because it does not permanently modify anything, but I wanted to run this past the gurus here before I started to experiment, as I am limited to about 20-25 skiing days this year.
post #2 of 10
Shim under the liner won't necessarily affect your lean, it's only going to affect the foot orientation in the shell. Could actually make you feel the tails even more. You would also need to control lean of the boot upper/cuff to really go after the effect you're seeking. I think ramp angle is best set at the ski-binding interface.
post #3 of 10
I would ask in the boot forum.
post #4 of 10
Yep. What is messing you up is the angle in the binding (called delta). It is apparently different enough from your old skis that when combined with your boot's ramp angle it doesn't put you in proper alignment.

You have two options for a fix. You can either shim the boot sole itself, or you can shim the binding. Since you have a pair of skis that work and your new skis have a flatter delta, you probably would shim the binding (since shimming the boot to work would probably put you out of alignment forward on a binding with a more common delta).

Basically, you need to go to a *good* bootfitter who will do an alignment check on you. Take the skis that work for you and get your alignment dialed with that delta. Then go to a *good* shop and have them shim the bindings on your new ski to achieve the delta that works with your current setup and you are good to go.
post #5 of 10
The flatter binding should make it EASIER to get tip presure... any chance that you 'know something's different' so now you 'feel' something different?

I don't mean to be a jerk, it's an honest question.
post #6 of 10
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the replies. So, now I'm a bit confused. Skier219 suggests that a shim could cause me to feel the tails even more, while geoffda states that a shim under the liner or shimming the binding could help.

In response to Whiteroom: I suppose that you could be right that it just "feels" different, but I don't think so because I now (more) occasionally feel myself turning on my heels and feeling less in control.... would making a non-permanent change (ie. adding the shim) be harmful? I understand your sentiment, and I don't want to screw up my *form* (such as it is). Can you explain the mechanics as to why a flatter binding makes it easier to get tip pressure?

MojoMan: Great idea to post this to the boot forum. Does any mod want to give their "blessing" to post the same question to more than one forum?

post #7 of 10
Thread Starter 
To add one more thing. I am skiing in Technica Vento HVL boots. These boots have some cuff wedges that I am not using because I have very large calves and the boot cuff is very tight with them inserted. Skier219 suggests controlling the lean of the upper boot/cuff. Is this what you had in mind?
post #8 of 10
I don't think 219 and Geofda necessarily have contradictory answers as there is a difference between having the shim in inside the boot as opposed to on the sole.

In response to your original post, I think the IPT wide is similar to the Jester/Girffon which are said to have 0 ramp angle with the heel being 2 mm higher than the toe piece (which intuitively does not make 100% to me as they should be the same to have 0 ramp). In any case, there is a good chance the binding does have less ramp than you are used to...could try giving it some time to see if it starts to feel more "normal"
post #9 of 10
To be clear, I'm suggesting that you either add shims to the outside of the boot sole or to the binding (probably the latter), not modifying the inside of the boot.

If you were in balance and the delta angle on your binding decreased, it would have the effect if shifting your balance backwards towards the heel--which would seemingly require more ankle flexion to engage the tips.

Lifting the heel from the inside isn't the answer. That will just hold your ankle open and give you more dorsiflexion than you probably need. Assuming your boot has the right amount of forward lean to begin with (meaning you can stand on a level surface and flex to 90 degrees, but no more) then you should be adjusting the boot binding interface, not the boot (which is skier219's conclusion as well).

You can play with this on your own by adding strips of electrical tape or duct tape to your boot sole (use relatively thin strips). Try adding one strip at a time to the heel until you are back to where you are comfortable (with each strip you are increasing your delta). That will tell you how much you need to shim. Be aware that doing this can interfere with your binding release, so you want to ski easy while you are doing these tests.
post #10 of 10
If you shim under the toes, you will feel more pressure there and it would translate into more control from that part of the foot. If you shim under the heel, the reverse is true and you might feel like you're skiing in the backseat, riding the tails. Relative to whatever imaginary baseline you may have, lifting under the foot to put it at a ramp-like forward angle has the opposite effect of what you'd expect. So a shim that lifts the heel and tips the foot forward would be bad in this case even though it seems to mimic the binding effect you're after.

I am not saying that you should play with the cuff, only that it would be the only way to get a real delta in conjunction with a shim under the foot and avoid the issues I mentioned above. You can't just shim the foot and expect it to change your stance over the skis in a "rigid ankle" sense.

In reality, I don't think you should mess with a shim under the liner or the cuff angle, because then you're screwing with the boot fit. That's not the right way to achieve what you want.

Don't take any of my rambling as bootfitting advice, because it's not and I'm not a boot fitter. I'm just trying to make the point that you probably shouldn't mess with boot-fit in this case (assuming it's correct now). Don't make it into a boot-fitting issue unless you have some reason to suspect you're not fit/aligned right. You're really talking about a binding-ski issue.
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